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Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: Dust Devil on May 08, 2010, 08:44:47 AM



Title: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: Dust Devil on May 08, 2010, 08:44:47 AM

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068786/


Junior Bonner is a quiet little semi-documentary about cowboys, the true fathers of America. Common people of every country one would say, on whose backs countries get built. Simple and honest unflavored Sam Peckinpah gem with excellent performances from the cast. (That Barbara Leigh was one fine chick back in her younger days.)


7.5/10


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: mike siegel on May 09, 2010, 05:19:56 AM
One of my favorites and next to PAPILLON McQueens favorite (although he hardly told anybody since
the film didn't make any money, which lowered its importness to Steve). It is also
Ali MacGraws favorite Peckinpah film.
Peckinah had studied drama and his favorite writer had been Tennessee Williams. Actually BONNER is not
really about Cowboys & Rodeo, it was his shot at a 'Williams Family Drama'. Those were the films
he wanted to do and should have done as he was brillant with actors and he also added a cinematic style
that a lot of Directors coming from the theatre weren't capable of.
It was the one project Peckinpah didn't alter that much during preproduction & shooting as Jeb Rosebrooks
screenplay was absolutely marvelous. Robert Preston should have been nominated and that goes for some
others too. THat scene on the staircase is easily one of Peckinpah's best.

A wonderful moving piece of art.
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/sam/junior-neu5-kl-1.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/sam/junior-neu2klein.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/sam/jb-69cxx-kl.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/sam/jb-57-15xx-kl.jpg)(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/peckinpah69/sam/jb-61-25axx-kl.jpg)


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: Dust Devil on May 09, 2010, 08:26:35 AM
One of my favorites and next to PAPILLON McQueens favorite (although he hardly told anybody since
the film didn't make any money, which lowered its importness to Steve).

I didn't know that, wow.

I mean, it somehow doesn't surprise me, but then again I'm the one who always says that in most cases the less you know about various actors/directors and their opinions concerning whatever, the easier it is to just look at their work for what it really is.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: dave jenkins on May 09, 2010, 08:50:20 AM
Peckinah had studied drama and his favorite writer had been Tennessee Williams. Actually BONNER is not
really about Cowboys & Rodeo, it was his shot at a 'Williams Family Drama'. Those were the films
he wanted to do and should have done as he was brillant with actors and he also added a cinematic style
that a lot of Directors coming from the theatre weren't capable of.
That's a very interesting point, Mike, and now that you mention it, I have to say that JB does resemble a Williams play. As I don't care for Williams, that's probably why I'm ambivalent about the film. I'd say the rodeo stuff makes the material more palatable--as does the presence of Ms. Leigh--and that such additions not only improve matters but put P's brand squarely on the work. Williams is less interesting, to my way of thinking, than a Williams-like-drama with Peckinpah touches.

But it seems that best comparisons are made with earlier rodeo films, The Lusty Men, say, or of course, The Misfits. None of these is perfect, but on balance I think I like The Lusty Men the best of the three. As you say, JB isn't really about rodeo-ing, that's kind of tacked on, and The Misfits gets into trouble once the characters leave the rodeo behind. But The Lusty Men is first, middle, and last about being a rodeo rider--in fact, Mitchum's character dies with his boots on. Not that rodeo-ing is such an interesting subject in itself, but Ray knew how to invest it with significance, to make it seem a life-and-death proposition. And that's what I want in a "cowboy" story: all or nothing stakes. As you say, JB is a family drama, and The Misfits turns out, finally, to be a story about a couple; only The Lusty Men delivers as advertised, a tale about lusty men,  men who, through their actions, keep death at bay just long enough to demonstrate some dignity before the inevitable takes them. In machismo cinema, that's the big subject. And that certainly was the subject Peckinpah, in his better films, assayed.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: mike siegel on May 09, 2010, 10:44:30 AM
Absolutely.

I like LUSTY MEN a lot.
Funny, I'm reading Eli Wallachs book right now and last I read
the chapter on MISFITS.

It's good to know JB stills works without the 'Williams fans' :)
I have to admit I am one - not all of it course. But CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF
just rocks on the stage and also on film, although it was softened. But
so was TIFFANY which works anyway on screen.

Peckinpah often regarded to 'genre' or form of a film merely as shell for the drama
he wanted to portray. He once said that he made WILD BUNCH not really thinking
he was doing a western but as a comment 'on our times'. Same with STRAW DOGS -
it could have played anywhere (but not anytime).


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: dave jenkins on May 09, 2010, 11:53:04 AM
He once said that he made WILD BUNCH not really thinking
he was doing a western but as a comment 'on our times'. Same with STRAW DOGS -
it could have played anywhere (but not anytime).
Provided "our times" refers to the human epoch, I have no trouble with that designation. Men are men, regardless of period.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: Dust Devil on May 09, 2010, 12:50:01 PM
Men are mean, regardless of period.

Ain't that the everlasting truth.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: titoli on November 21, 2011, 10:51:39 PM
A not original story  but well-told. 7\10


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: Groggy on November 22, 2011, 04:14:41 AM
If you insist on calling this a Western...

Quote
Sam Peckinpah is best-remembered for the bloody mayhem of The Wild Bunch and Straw Dogs, which isn't entirely fair. Peckinpah was equally capable of low-key, thoughtful films. Ride the High Country has its share of gunplay but the elegiac and somber tone sticks in the memory. The Ballad of Cable Hogue's gentle romantic comedy is the complete opposite of The Wild Bunch's nihilism, even with Strother Martin and L.Q. Jones in supporting roles.

Junior Bonner (1972) is Peckinpah's most down-to-earth film. A small-scale slice-of-life drama, it's far from Peckinpah's best work but still has plenty of modest charms.

Junior Bonner (Steve McQueen) is a master rodeo cowboy who comes home to Prescott, Arizona after sustaining an injury riding Sunshine, a particularly nasty bull. He finds things changing for the worse: his brother Curly (Joe Don Baker) has gone into real estate, planning to sell the Bonner family estate for houses. His dad Ace (Robert Preston) is in the hospital, planning to move to Australia to mine gold, with long-suffering mom Elvira (Ida Lupino) threatening to leave him. Junior looks for a rodeo manager (Ben Johnson) to let him have one more crack at Sunshine.

Junior Bonner plays, fittingly enough, like a modern Western. The decline of the rodeo circuit allows for Peckinpah to indulge his thematic obsessions. Junior is less eloquent than Pike Bishop, angry at the changing world around him but unable to stop it; even his last "blaze of glory" achieves nothing. Peckinpah's themes of selling out are channelled in interesting ways, with Curly selling the family land and Ace looking for new horizons. Peckinpah and writer Jeb Rosebrook eschew the usual cliche of the heroes fighting change. The protagonists know progress is inevitable and are too beaten-down to fight it.

Peckinpah's direction is controlled and focused, allowing Lucien Ballard's photography to capture some beautiful scenery while remaining mostly down-to-earth. "Bloody Sam" incorporates his trademark slo-mo flourishes and rapid-editing style into a few scenes, with mixed results. The rodeo scenes make great use of it, but the bar room brawl mixed with a tender love scene comes off as forced.

Steve McQueen does fine work, dialing down his persona for his quietly desperate protagonist. Robert Preston and Ida Lupino give excellent performances as Junior's weary, beaten-down parents. Joe Don Baker gives a fine performance, miles away from his embarrassing ham in Mitchell and Walking Tall. Bill McKinney (The Parallax View) has a small part, and Peckinpah regulars Ben Johnson and Dub Taylor pop up in supporting roles.

Junior Bonner is a fine little film even if it's not a masterpiece. At the very least, it shows Sam Peckinpah is capable of quiet, small-scale character drama as surely as over-the-top violence. 7/10

http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2011/04/junior-bonner.html (http://nothingiswrittenfilm.blogspot.com/2011/04/junior-bonner.html)


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: mike siegel on November 22, 2011, 04:38:49 AM
Almost my opinion. Of course it is not a western. JR Bonner serves as the guide to show us the change parts of the American west was going through, selling out, the loss of the old values and how it affected family life. Rodeo life serving as the background.

I think it is a masterpiece, but the brawl sequence is the weakest, that's for sure. Might have something to do with  the fact that Sam was occasionally himself in fist-fights from time to time and he had a weak spot for brawls. Otherwise his great instinct for drama would have told him that the scene was not necessary. At least not such a fight-ballet.

It is a film that works very well with women (favorite Sam film of Ali MacGraw and my girl as well), they don't expect 'A Peckinpah / McQueen Film' but just enjoy the subtle scenes and emotions Peckinpah got out of his actors. Preston & Lupino make 50% of the picture. Both weren't in films for 10 years or so and it showed, they put everything into the film. Preston should have been nominated (like Holden), but to judge real quality isn't for everybody. One needs good antennas.

9/10


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: stanton on November 22, 2011, 04:55:07 AM
A beautiful and intelligent film which I always enjoy. 9/10


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: titoli on November 22, 2011, 05:05:48 AM
If you insist on calling this a Western...

No, I don't. In fact for me this is not a western, like Hud isn't. I posted it here because some people think it is. But moderators can remove it to another board it they think it fair.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on November 22, 2011, 05:49:58 AM
A modern Western? A Drama set in the West? Its almost like the debates over Film Noir whether you personaly emphasize the Visual, the Characters, or the Diegetic World the films take place in.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: dave jenkins on November 22, 2011, 06:14:51 AM
Preston & Lupino make 50% of the picture. Both weren't in films for 10 years or so and it showed, they put everything into the film. Preston should have been nominated
Absolutely. This is the only time I've ever liked Preston (and Lupino is always good).


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: mike siegel on November 22, 2011, 06:30:10 AM
One of the reasons why Sam is my favorite, he could bring out the best in actors. I never understood why certain critics & viewers never really got the fact that he was one of the best Actor-Directors in the business. HOlden- never better than in WILD BUNCH. Robards as Cable, Preston, Oates in GARCIA (or any other Sam performance), McQueen as Junior (he named it as one of his two favorite performances), McCrea/Scott - countless films, their last performance it their best. Susan George ... No coincindences here. Sam had a talent to transform his own feelings, condition, thoughts into his chosen screen characters. And force the other actors to give equally great performances to balance everything out. Living & interesting characters, so real I'm still looking for better or equal performances all these years :)
Did find (thank God) many great ones - not better ones though.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: dave jenkins on November 22, 2011, 07:20:01 AM
One of the reasons why Sam is my favorite, he could bring out the best in actors. I never understood why certain critics & viewers never really got the fact that he was one of the best Actor-Directors in the business. HOlden- never better than in WILD BUNCH. Robards as Cable, Preston, Oates in GARCIA (or any other Sam performance), McQueen as Junior (he named it as one of his two favorite performances), McCrea/Scott - countless films, their last performance it their best. Susan George ... No coincindences here. Sam had a talent to transform his own feelings, condition, thoughts into his chosen screen characters. And force the other actors to give equally great performances to balance everything out. Living & interesting characters, so real I'm still looking for better or equal performances all these years :)
Did find (thank God) many great ones - not better ones though.
This is a point worth making, and one I don't remember seeing in print before (although maybe someone has said the same thing elsewhere and I've missed it). People focus so much on P's idiosyncratic direction and/or the controversial nature of his subjects that maybe appreciation for the performances gets lost. But yeah--P probably does deserve to be known as an actor's director.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: cigar joe on November 22, 2011, 08:25:18 AM
This is a point worth making, and one I don't remember seeing in print before (although maybe someone has said the same thing elsewhere and I've missed it). People focus so much on P's idiosyncratic direction and/or the controversial nature of his subjects that maybe appreciation for the performances gets lost. But yeah--P probably does deserve to be known as an actor's director.

Very good point agreed.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: mike siegel on November 22, 2011, 10:28:25 AM
Sam was very well read and a fan of poetry. He studied drama, his thesis was to film a Tennessee Williams play as a live TV recording.  He just had the right taste when it come to performances. That cupled with his visual, storytelling & editing talents made him one of the best. Even in his early TV shows there's a lot of great acting (Keith delivering a memorable, real and almost tormented 'Westerner').
I'm surely not the first who mentioned this. It's just that the power of his films overshadows their real qualities very often. When you talk to the right people you'll find out that a lot of actors (not only those who worked with him) discovered his directorial brilliance over the years just by getting sucked in while watching his films. It's the difference that separates the man from the boys. There were a number of great directors when it came to directing talented actors, but only very few also made such powerful films. THat is the main reason why WILD BUNCH is on the TOP list of many creative movie people. There's nothing like it. TAXI DRIVER & LAWRENCE are among the few that have brilliant direction, acting, editing and a strong visual impact incl. movement, timeless compositions, violence and significance regarding their theme & content.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: Groggy on November 22, 2011, 04:41:44 PM
One of the reasons why Sam is my favorite, he could bring out the best in actors. I never understood why certain critics & viewers never really got the fact that he was one of the best Actor-Directors in the business. HOlden- never better than in WILD BUNCH. Robards as Cable, Preston, Oates in GARCIA (or any other Sam performance), McQueen as Junior (he named it as one of his two favorite performances), McCrea/Scott - countless films, their last performance it their best. Susan George ... No coincindences here. Sam had a talent to transform his own feelings, condition, thoughts into his chosen screen characters. And force the other actors to give equally great performances to balance everything out. Living & interesting characters, so real I'm still looking for better or equal performances all these years :)
Did find (thank God) many great ones - not better ones though.

Well-observed. I think David Weddle made a similar point in his Peckinpah biography, that Peckinpah could get performances out of actors they often weren't capable of.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: Richard--W on November 28, 2011, 10:29:24 PM
(http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/Richard--W/JuniorBonner1972-a.jpg)

Junior Bonner was one of three rodeo films that came out in 1972. The other two were J.W. Coop (with Cliff Robertson) and The Honkers (with James Coburn), both very personal films by an actor-director-writer. But Junior Bonner is the masterpiece. It is very observant of behavior and attitude, the thought process, and the way western people relate to one another. I recognize these characters as people I live with and deal with every day, and not just because I'm presently stuck in the neighborhood where it was shot. If I were living in Texas or New Mexico (where I've put in my time) Junior Bonner captures qualities about life in that part of the west, too. The "progressive" changes to the west result in emotional upheavals in the people who live here. What Peckinpah depicts is still going on; a little more desperate, perhaps. He accomplishes a very delicate and subtle thing. This is a special film. To his credit, not all of Peckinpah's films are action movies, and his action films are not merely action. He was an astute observer of human nature and a seriously good dramatist, incisive and intense, or his violence would not move us the way it does.

Junior Bonner is a contemporary western because it's about life in the American west today. Or rather forty years ago, but that's still modern times, if you know what I mean.


Richard

(http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a432/Richard--W/JuniorBonner1972-b.jpg)


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: dave jenkins on March 15, 2017, 04:56:35 PM
On another forum, someone has asserted that the film is coming to Blu from Kino Lorber "soon." Drink, no word yet on region coding. >:D


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 15, 2017, 05:48:24 PM
This is actually a decent Peckinpah film  :)


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: Novecento on March 15, 2017, 08:26:10 PM
On another forum, someone has asserted that the film is coming to Blu from Kino Lorber "soon." Drink, no word yet on region coding. >:D

You were right about Straw Dogs, so let's hope you come through again!

This is actually a decent Peckinpah film  :)

Drink, you are showing a chink in your armor. I now recommend doing the following:

1. Buy a multi-region Blu-ray player
2. Buy "Cross of Iron" on Blu-ray from amazon.co.uk
3. Report back


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 16, 2017, 12:35:11 AM


Drink, you are showing a chink in your armor. I now recommend doing the following:

1. Buy a multi-region Blu-ray player
2. Buy "Cross of Iron" on Blu-ray from amazon.co.uk
3. Report back

As I said, I'd be happy to consider a region-free BRD – not for Cross of Iron, but because I should get it anyway  ;) But you still did not reply when I asked you for a link to a good one. Give me a link and I'll consider getting it  ;)

-----


RE: Junior Bonner: I actually saw the movie quite a while ago. I only mentioned it in this post now because DJ just  bumped the thread, and I realized that I had never commented in this thread.

I gave Junior Bonner a 7.5/10

Look, I never said Peckinpah was an awful filmmaker. Anyone who makes more than one film that gets at least a  7/10 is a better-than-average filmmaker.  I just can't stand how overrated he  is IMO, how people talk about him as if he's in a league with Leone.

Here are the Peckinpah films I have seen (note:  I have seen some of these a while ago; will do my best to remember my rating/opinion at the time):


The Getaway: Just saw it recently. Decent film, I gave it a 7/10 or 7.5/10

Junior Bonner: 7.5/10 - I saw the DVD a while ago. Thought it was decent. but after watching the movie once, I immediately turned it on again and listened to a few minutes of the commentary, before turning it off: The  commentary illustrated the problems I have with Peckinpah. Or more accurately, his fans. The commentators were some self-proclaimed Peckinpah scholars, and they - or perhaps one in particular; I'm not sure - were going so overboard as to be nauseating. When they were discussing like every scene, or every little minute or element in the movie, they were going on and on at how brilliant it was, like Mona Lisa and Shakespeare and Beethoven's Ninth and Casablanca all rolled into one. I'm sitting there thinking, "Hey, this was a pretty good movie. Fine. Wonderful. But it's Junior Freaking Bonner! Why do you idiots have to make it out to be like the greatest piece of artwork since the invention of talking pictures?'

The Wild Bunch: As I discussed extensively in that movie's thread, if I had seen this and judged it on its own, maybe I'd think it is a decent movie. But people literally rank this among the very greatest Westerns – or movies – of all time makes me roll my eyes. I have watched it at least five times – which I NEVER do for a movie I dislike – only because y'all love it so much that I kept wondering if maybe I am missing something and kept re-watching it and think maybe I'll get what everyone loves. On my various viewings, I ranked it anywhere from a crappy movie to a very good movie to a crappy movie and everywhere in between. But never ever ever have I thought it's anywhere near the greatest of all time.

BMTHO Alfredo Garcia: I did not like it, but the one time I watched it was more than five years ago. I'll give it another viewing eventually.


Major Dundee: I think I gave it a 6.5/10. Not the "mediocre 6.5/10" but the "some things very good and some things bad 6.5/10." I understand that this movie was butchered and affected by studio issues and there are various cuts and edits, but I never cared enough about it to actually read through the thread and try to unde rstand exactly what was cut and exactly what coulda/shoulda/woulda been. My one viewing was also about five years ago, but I don't feel much of an urgency to watch it again,

TBO Cable Hogue: The one Peckinpah film that I found so excruciating that I turned it off halfway through. I've mentioned at least once or twice  ;) that I am not into comedy. But on the rare occasions that I do watch comedies, I can hardly ever remember going through as much pain as this piece of absolute trash put me though. The one Peckinpah film I have seen that is absolute trash.

PGAB The Kid: I saw it six years ago, gave it around a 6.5/10. I know that there are various versions, but again, I never cared enough about this movie to want to find out about the various versions and cut scenes. I just watched it on TCM once and that;s all. My discussion on this film is here http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2837.msg149326#msg149326


Noon Wine: I believe this was a TV movie, originally in color, but a black-and-white version of it appeared on Vimeo several years ago. The link was posted here and discussed briefly http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=11517.msg161375#msg161375 Happily, I watched it then, because it is now no longer available.
I liked this one. I did not give it a rating, probably because I felt that you can't compare this - a b/w version of a color  TV episode, or a short made-for-TV-movie - with a feature film, but I enjoyed this.


--------


So, there you have it. Those are the Peckinpah films I have seen. Again an absolute level, Peckinpah was certainly a talented filmmaker, who could have succeeded even more if not for the studio chopping his shit. On a relative level – ie., relative to the fanboys around here – I can't stand how Peckinpah is mentioned among the all-time greats.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: stanton on March 16, 2017, 06:49:58 AM
how people talk about him as if he's in a league with Leone.


 On a relative level – ie., relative to the fanboys around here – I can't stand how Peckinpah is mentioned among the all-time greats.


These are probably your real problems with Peckinpah. Too much for a Leone fanboy?

And I don't think that the Peckinpah admirers here are fanboys. Especially as we are all also critical towards his work or especially the person. Still Peckinpah was so talented, that even when he made films in a disastrous mind condition, he was able to fill them with some great stuff. Enough great stuff that even his lesser films are at least a stone solid 6/10 for me. (about 8/10 on the D&D scale)


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: titoli on March 16, 2017, 07:09:16 AM
D&D has apparently missed my favourite Peckinpahs: Ride the High Country and  Cross of Iron.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 16, 2017, 08:41:57 AM
D&D has apparently missed my favourite Peckinpahs: Ride the High Country and  Cross of Iron.


Actually, I forgot, I did see RIDE THE HIGH COUNTRY. That was one of two Peckinpahs (CABLE HOGUE being the other) that I shut off in middle, as I was not enjoying myself at all.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: Novecento on March 16, 2017, 04:20:52 PM
As I said, I'd be happy to consider a region-free BRD – not for Cross of Iron, but because I should get it anyway  ;) But you still did not reply when I asked you for a link to a good one. Give me a link and I'll consider getting it  ;)

Bought my Pioneer one on Amazon several years ago now. Just go online and buy one - it's not hard.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on March 16, 2017, 06:54:08 PM
Bought my Pioneer one on Amazon several years ago now. Just go online and buy one - it's not hard.

Once upon a time these were pretty expensive, but I just went on Amazon and looked and they're selling for around $150, so that's not bad. I'll probanly get one soon. I see Pioneer, SONY and LG, all around the same price. Decisions, decisions ...

BTW, all of these are internet-enabled, so I can use them for Netflix streaming, etc?


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: dave jenkins on March 17, 2017, 06:08:55 PM
Quote
The release is expected to arrive on the market this summer.
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=20954


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: Novecento on March 17, 2017, 08:17:42 PM
Mike confirmed it yesterday over on sampeckinpah.com. Great news. I hope they do a good job with it.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: Spikeopath on May 09, 2017, 04:51:19 AM
Without McQueen? Well, hmm >

Above average film featuring a cracking lead performance.

The film itself is interesting enough, even to those not interested in its core subject of Rodeo, and it's a story that I think most viewers can get onside with. The title character played wonderfully by Steve McQueen returns to his home town of Prescott, Arizona, to find that the family he left behind is now fractured and that age has caught up with him and his Rodeo life.

It's a very up and down piece that on the surface doesn't seem like a directed effort from Sam Peckinpah. But there's some very special treats in the film to look out for. I have never been to a Rodeo so I have no frame of reference as regards the power of the Rodeo scenes here, but they certainly hit the spot of this particular viewer, in fact, I was transfixed by them. The film is also dotted with interesting and nicely drawn characters that are thankfully well realised by the acting talent on show. Ida Lupino, Robert Preston & Ben Johnson all help to keep the film way above average, but ultimately it's Steve McQueen turning in a memorable lead performance that actually deserves a better film than the one it ends up being. So 7/10 for the film as a whole, but a genuine 10/10 for the affectingly deep turn from McQueen.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: stanton on May 09, 2017, 05:23:16 AM
An average film gets a 7/10? In my rating system average films get a 2/10, cause average films are mostly boring films.

But Junior Bonner is a 9/10. And a total Peckinpah film in every respect, be that good or bad for the viewer.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: Spikeopath on May 09, 2017, 05:33:12 AM
An average film gets a 7/10? In my rating system average films get a 2/10, cause average films are mostly boring films.

But Junior Bonner is a 9/10. And a total Peckinpah film in every respect, be that good or bad for the viewer.

Well you are kinda right. Surely 2 would be poor or even terrible? I couldn't bring myself to rate it lower because McQueen is THAT good.

Peckinpah is one of my favourite directors! I would have to watch it again (I own it, as I do all Sam's films), but I'll add above average since I have put that in the review!...


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: stanton on May 09, 2017, 06:03:36 AM
Well you are kinda right. Surely 2 would be poor or even terrible?

No, 1 is poor and 0 is terrible. These are enough points for bad, boring or mediocre films.

But I think that your ratings are generally very generous towards films, which are for me often more or less forgettable. Different tastes, different rating systems ...

For Peckinpah being one of your favourite directors your Bonner rating of being average is pretty strange. For most others it is an essential Peckinpah film.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: Spikeopath on May 09, 2017, 07:38:51 AM
No, 1 is poor and 0 is terrible. These are enough points for bad, boring or mediocre films.

But I think that your ratings are generally very generous towards films, which are for me often more or less forgettable. Different tastes, different rating systems ...

For Peckinpah being one of your favourite directors your Bonner rating of being average is pretty strange. For most others it is an essential Peckinpah film.

Well I stand by my ratings, your ratings make no sense to me at all, 2/10 average, are you rating as 5 maximum? Only if it's 10 you use then surely going by maths a 5 is average!

My ratings are to be taken in consideration with all my reviews, at least I make effort to explain where I arrived at a score.

As for Bloody Sam, just because yourself and others seem to love this one to pieces, I do not, he is after all a very divisive director.

The Deadly Companions (1961) 4/10
Ride the High Country (1962)  9/10
Major Dundee (1965)  7/10
The Wild Bunch (1969) 10/10 (second favourite film of all time)
The Ballad of Cable Hogue (1970)  9/10
Straw Dogs (1971)  10/10
Junior Bonner (1972) 7/10 (incidently its IMDb rating is 6.8...)
The Getaway (1972) 8/10
Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid (1973)  9/10
Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia (1974) 9/10
The Killer Elite (1975) To Be Reviewed (6.5-7ish/10)
Cross of Iron (1977) 9/10
Convoy (1978) 7/10
The Osterman Weekend (1983)  5/10



Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: drinkanddestroy on May 09, 2017, 08:38:37 AM
http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=12078.0


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: stanton on May 09, 2017, 09:29:29 AM


As for Bloody Sam, just because yourself and others seem to love this one to pieces, I do not, he is after all a very divisive director.


I don't love any director to pieces, so Peckinpah also not. He was a very talented director, but also a troubled personality, and one who had to struggle a lot with himself. But he had so much talent that even his lesser films are quite good. Which means he never made a mediocre film imo, none of his films gets less than 6 points on my entertainometer.
But then, considering his talent, he could have been able to make more great films than he actually did, but that potential was buried by drugs and alc.

Our ratings are not that different btw, even when I consider that I give not much points for boring films.

But Bonner is one of his best, a central film in his oeuvre. And very well directed.

I'm btw also surprised about the low rating for The Deadly Companions, especially compared to all your other ratings of westerns.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: T.H. on May 09, 2017, 01:16:59 PM
An average film gets a 7/10? In my rating system average films get a 2/10, cause average films are mostly boring films.

But you're not giving yourself any wiggle room for the most terrible films ever made that lack all the basic fundamentals of filmmaking.

While rating systems are subjective, I just don't understand the overly harsh ones. If I see someone rate a movie a 5 or 6/10, I'm going to think that it's not an endorsement.



Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: stanton on May 09, 2017, 02:33:26 PM
But you're not giving yourself any wiggle room for the most terrible films ever made that lack all the basic fundamentals of filmmaking.


I do. They get a deserved 0.

Do I really need to differentiate between bad, very bad and extremely bad films.

Btw, as I give also 11/10 points (mathematicians love that), I wouldn't hesitate to give negative ratings, if necessary, but it is not really necessary.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: Spikeopath on May 10, 2017, 02:53:05 AM
I don't love any director to pieces, so Peckinpah also not. He was a very talented director, but also a troubled personality, and one who had to struggle a lot with himself. But he had so much talent that even his lesser films are quite good. Which means he never made a mediocre film imo, none of his films gets less than 6 points on my entertainometer.
But then, considering his talent, he could have been able to make more great films than he actually did, but that potential was buried by drugs and alc.

Our ratings are not that different btw, even when I consider that I give not much points for boring films.

But Bonner is one of his best, a central film in his oeuvre. And very well directed.

I'm btw also surprised about the low rating for The Deadly Companions, especially compared to all your other ratings of westerns.

JFTR - I only bring up the review issue because I'm marking for musical score, scenery, narrative themes as well as your standard characterisations, action etc, that's why I try to review every film I watch. Some folk get wood just if a film is action packed or lyrically heavy alone, I'm into all encompassing when it comes to a film. A 7/10 "B" Western from me will explain what I liked about it, but I also review with balance and mention irks if I see them.


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: Spikeopath on May 10, 2017, 02:54:19 AM
I don't love any director to pieces, so Peckinpah also not.

I was on about the film!


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: mike siegel on August 27, 2017, 01:50:11 AM
JUNIOR BONNER Kino Lorber Blu-ray release date: October 31 !
It contains a truly wonderful HD Blu-ray master and some 2 hrs of supplements I produced: 


PASSION & POETRY – RODEO TIME (Documentary with screenwriter Jeb Rosebrook, Katy Haber, Ali MacGraw, Garner Simmons, L.Q. Jones) 56 Min

PASSION & POETRY – PECKINPAH ANECDOTES (Short documentary with Ernest Borgnine, James Coburn, Kris Kristofferson, Ali MacGraw, Isela Vega, L.Q. Jones, R.G. Armstrong, Bo Hopkins and David Warner) 26 Min

AUDIO COMMENTARY by Sam Peckinpah Authors Paul Seydor, Garner Simmons and David Weddle, moderated by Film Historian Nick Redman

JUNIOR BONNER TRIVIA (cameo’s, in-jokes & more) 5 Min

JUNIOR BONNER REMEMBERED (4th of July rodeo 2016, featurette by Keith Woods & Alyson Titkemeyer) 3 Min

JUNIOR BONNER on the set (Animated Image Gallery) 5 Min

JUNIOR BONNER in Pictures (Animated Image Gallery) 4 Min

JUNIOR BONNER Posters & Lobby Cards (Animated Image Gallery) 5 Min

US Theatrical Trailer

2 US Radio Spots

US TV Spot

Reverse Blu-ray Art



https://www.klstudioclassics.com/product/view/id/4780


Title: Re: Junior Bonner (1972)
Post by: Novecento on August 27, 2017, 12:28:55 PM
Looks great  O0 O0