Sergio Leone Web Board

General Information => General Discussion => Topic started by: caius on December 28, 2002, 04:42:10 AM

Title: Do women love Leone too
Post by: caius on December 28, 2002, 04:42:10 AM
I was just talking to a friend, and he claimed that only blokes watched westerns, i challenged him, "do don't be so discriminating you pig."  Now i am being put to the test, how many woman really look up westerns on the internet.  I would be intrested to know the percentage of males to females on this site.  Thanks  Caius
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: visitor on December 28, 2002, 06:40:24 AM
go to  sartana.homestead.com   navigate to the discussion board and ask the same question.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: caius on December 29, 2002, 07:58:40 AM
its not a woman rights site is it?  I'll be strung up for even mentioning it.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: jouissance on January 02, 2003, 12:21:18 PM
in all fairness to the ladies...i have met a few young gals on the web who are huge fans of leone (especially the sw). i spent six weeks chatting with a girl regarding leone via a chat room. it wasn't until she mentioned something about her BOYFRIEND that i began to wonder if she was man or woman. she told me she was not gay but a female. i was impressed with her passion for leone... too bad she doesn't live in california...
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Lilly on January 02, 2003, 06:27:46 PM
Well I'm a girlie AND a fan of Leone.  I always enjoyed the cheesy wham-bam John Wayne style westerns as a kid, but the Leone films are in another class!  There is so much to think about in every movie.  So lads, there are some appreciative ladies out there - too bad I don't live in California!  ;)
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Jupa on January 04, 2003, 08:42:41 AM
Wow,you must be the FIRST woman that I've ever encountered on a Sergio Leone message board(not that there are many SL message boards  ;) ),at least you're the first poster that I've known to be a woman.I think there are very few female Leone fans or even female western fans.In fact,I believe westerns to be one of the most male-dominated things in existence.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: cigar joe on January 04, 2003, 10:38:02 AM
Well, my wife (born & raised in Montana) has always liked westerns, she said they showed an aywfun lot of them at the local "movie house" but her tastes run to the more comedic side, some of her favorites are "Cat Ballou", "Support Your Local Sheriff/Gunfighter", "The Halleluia Trail" etc., etc.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Lilly on January 04, 2003, 09:02:22 PM
Quoting Jupa,
Quote
I think there are very few female Leone fans or even female western fans
I disagree.  I know quite a few women who like westerns.  My grandmother was the person that introduced me to watching westerns - she always had them on in the aftrenoons when I went to visit.  And I know of other members of this board who are women - including the lady who is currently 5th on the list of top posters!   :)
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: caius on January 05, 2003, 03:44:54 AM
In fact,I believe westerns to be one of the most male-dominated things in existence.

you forget the london stock exchange...
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: MARKGPL on January 31, 2003, 06:02:55 PM
My wife, unfortunately, has never understood my love of Sergio Leone's masterpieces. I tried to get to sit and watch OUATITW with me and she was dying of boredom during the scene with the opening credits.

Here I am thinking that it's really a piece of cinematic genius with the closeups of Mr. Elam and Woody Strode and the sounds of the train station and a fly buzzing or water dropping and she thinks it's just artsy-fartsy crap.

I love her dearly, but she just doesn't get it.

The showdown between Frank and Harmonica with Morricone's spellbinding soundtrack playing or the The Trio in the The Good, The Bad and The Ugly waiting to shoot it out in Sad Hill cemetary  is some of the most incredible and mesmerizing film footage ever shot in the history of film.



Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Il Buono on February 01, 2003, 04:19:45 AM
Well, I'm 20 years old and I know about ... zero girls that like Leone...  Too bad, I don't understand it...  Maybe they think it's too macho, or too slow.  It's strange that they like films like Pulp Fiction then...  I think it's the general idea people have about westerns.  A lot of people still have the old-fashioned American westerns in mind and I still have the feeling that westerns are a 'guy thing'.  Too bad.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: MARKGPL on February 01, 2003, 06:49:10 AM
Il Buono..

The bad news is that even though you're only 20 and think that you may have alot of years in front of you to understand the female mind, it actually doesn't get any easier...!!..    ???  :)

My wife can sit through The Terminator or any other modern action film and really enjoy it...

But there's just something about the fact that a great story with great actors happens to take place in the West of the late 1900's that just turns her off.

It might have something to do with the fact that in order to fully enjoy a movie or a book or a song, for example, there has to be some connection - on some level, between the viewer/listener and the piece of work. You have to identify with some of the lyrics or identify with a particular character in a film and understand his motives.

In TGTBATU, there's not exactly alot of women for her to glom onto. The same with FAFDM. Of course, in FOD and OUATITW, there is a couple of woemn who are important to the plot.

But she doesn't like those either.

So go figure.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Il Buono on February 01, 2003, 08:24:36 AM
That's funny... oldtimer... ;)  Yeah, it must be something with the old west specifically, because a lot of women like Dances with Wolves... strange.  And indeed, figuring out the female -seemingly extraterrestrial- race is impossible...  If they don't like Leone, they are not to be saved...  They will be cursed into damnation... ;D  
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Karin on February 21, 2003, 02:04:24 PM
Hi everybody. I have to say - Leone's films are my favourite. There's everything I require from films. Great plot, great acting, great characters, great camera .......... I can watch them over and over. Despite I'm a woman.  :D :D ;)
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: shorty larsen on February 21, 2003, 02:24:32 PM
For years I tried to explain to my girlfriend why the first scene of OUTW is one the four or five mythical openings for a film.

For her, ir's a boring scene.

I think it explains all.....
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Karin on February 21, 2003, 02:43:18 PM
I must say - whe I saw that film for the first time, I didn't understand it too. I was bored too. But I was ten than. Now I agree with you. It's really great and very famous scene. :)
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: nighteagle on February 22, 2003, 11:07:08 AM
my wife Jenny likes Leone very much. When living in Arizona
she began shooting revolver and became a winning competitor! That was the strong influence exerted by
the Leone "atmosphere".
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Jill McBain on February 24, 2003, 06:53:27 AM
Hi there!  ;)  I'm an Italian girl and first of all I have to say two things:
1 - This forum is wonderfull! Wow! ;D
2 - Sorry for my funny english... :-[ :-[  and for all my grammar mistake... I can't check every word in the vocabulary or it takes me 50 minutes to write a message!!
 
Well, I'm glad there is so many people around the world that love our Sergio Leone... Me, I'm one of that people!
I like very much the old west, it's history, and I love the western movies.  Leone and Peckinpah first of all.

I don't know where my love for the western of Sergio was born... maybe the great "atmoshere"... maybe the bad and dirty faces... maybe the soundtrack... but it's born and I hope to share this passion with you!

Ciao amici, un saluto dall'Italia!
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Il Buono on February 24, 2003, 09:59:59 AM
Maybe you just like bad boys...  ;D
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Jill McBain on February 24, 2003, 12:10:14 PM
Maybe you just like bad boys...  ;D

Maybe... but not bad and ugly like the guy of your picture...  :P ;)
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: cigar joe on February 24, 2003, 09:00:53 PM
chao Jill, a very good reply in english. :D
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Il Buono on February 25, 2003, 04:11:21 AM
Luckily I do look better in real life, sweetheart... ;)
I hope you look as good as your picture... ;D
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Jill McBain on February 26, 2003, 07:50:06 AM
Luckily I do look better in real life, sweetheart... ;)
I hope you look as good as your picture... ;D

  ;) ;) ;D
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: cigar joe on February 26, 2003, 04:53:41 PM
Shorty I'm curious if OUTIW is one the four or five mythical openings for a film. What do you consider the others.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: visitor on February 26, 2003, 06:01:15 PM
off the top of my head I'd mention
Welles' TOUCH OF EVIL as one of the best
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: KC on February 26, 2003, 06:28:32 PM
Wow,you must be the FIRST woman that I've ever encountered on a Sergio Leone message board(not that there are many SL message boards  ;) ),at least you're the first poster that I've known to be a woman.I think there are very few female Leone fans or even female western fans.In fact,I believe westerns to be one of the most male-dominated things in existence.
I've been posting on this board (in its various incarnations) since 1998. And, I'm female ... ;)
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: cigar joe on February 26, 2003, 08:40:54 PM
Touch of Evil was good and quite famous, you are right visitor. And KC I remember your posts, and you are from NY too.  :)
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: caius on February 27, 2003, 06:46:44 AM
these mythical opening what do you mean by them?  I have heard of a theory in cinema whereby there are only 7 types of film/story.  I can't remember all of them or even precisely any of them but i am pretty sure when i tested every possible film it always fitted in as one or a few mixed.  Correct me if i am wrong about the number 7, it maybe more or less (just)

Two things as well, Jill Mcbain, i have to confess you write better english then the average person from the US or the UK do. secondly wheres the name Jill Mcbain from.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: shorty larsen on February 27, 2003, 01:27:30 PM
Cigar Joe. You know that cinema, as an art is not objective but subjective. We all have differents points of view.

Anyway, I think (I repeat, it's my opinion) that OUTA has a mythical opening.

I will include some other movie opening.

For example 2001 A Space Odysey, Blade Runner (all the scene with the fire going out from the chimneys and the music of Vangelis), Star Wars 4 (A New Hope) with the appearance of the "imperial destructor battleship" from the upper screen, and even Saving Private Ryan, the whole first scene of the landship ("landship"?).

This is what I considered some mythical opening scenes, among others.

But as I say it's just my own point ov view.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: cigar joe on February 27, 2003, 04:29:47 PM
I see what your getting at shorty.
But now Caius has me curious, Caius ok you said " I have heard of a theory in cinema whereby there are only 7 types of film/story.  I can't remember all of them or even precisely any of them but i am pretty sure when i tested every possible film it always fitted in as one or a few mixed.  Correct me if i am wrong about the number 7, it maybe more or less (just)"
I've never heard of this if you can elaborate on this do so. Thanks.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: caius on March 06, 2003, 04:20:45 AM
well heres how it works:
(i can't really do this properly without the seven movies but i will look into it,)
there are a set seven movies (or stories) which will be like (hypothietically)
cinderella
romeo juliet
etc etc....

and any movie is built up of a combination of these movies.

i will look it up and get back to you
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: caius on March 06, 2003, 11:23:59 AM
i did some research and e-mailed a proffesor in something to do with movies and this is what he came up with, intresting but not quite it, i will come search some more though.


"Dear Caius,

Thanks for your question.  Yes, it is a common "truism" about literature and movies that there are only a few plots.  Unfortunately, I cannot recite for you the exact 7 (or whatever) plots that are often cited.  Sometimes the point is made another way: it is said that all movies are just combinations of other movies.  That would be misleading, in my view.  What is meant is that all movies conform to basic plot structures that are EXEMPLIFIED in various other ARCHETYPES of basic plots.  Romeo and Juliet is not a basic plot, but an example of a basic plot.

In my view "a basic plot" has a very simple structure and must be distinguished from "story" and "theme."

A basic plot, in my view mentions no character names, no specific times or locations, and no specific details to the plot. Hence, there are only a few basic plots such as:

1. Boy meets girl.  Boy is rejected by, or cannot get girl.. Boy gets girl in the end.

2. Hero confronts ethical dilemma.  Hero makes wrong choice.  Hero suffers. Hero corrects choice.  Hero is rewarded in end.

These are the "comic" (or  "happy," successful outcome) versions.  Reverse the outcome for tragedy.  That accounts for 4 basic plot structures.

Stories, on the other hand, e.g., Romeo and Juliet, are the SPECIFIC people, and settings in which the plots occur.  Specific stories will be, not basic plots, but examples of basic plots.

Themes are the issues the author deals with: e.g., love and fate, good vs. evil, how God relates to man, etc.

Aristotle lists SEVEN ELEMENTS that are constituents of drama.  These are not plots.  I will list them on my site, perhaps in the next few days.

There is one element that is ALWAYS a part of drama: moral choice.  See #5 under http://www.gis.net/~tbirch/amistakes.html

Another truism is this: all basic plots, as well as many examples of theme in story form, are found in the Bible.  Consider the film "The Matrix" and you will see what I mean.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Regards,

Tony Birch, Ph.D., MCSE"
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Il Buono on March 06, 2003, 04:06:41 PM
[quote author=caius A basic plot, in my view mentions no character names, no specific times or locations, and no specific details to the plot. Hence, there are only a few basic plots such as:

1. Boy meets girl.  Boy is rejected by, or cannot get girl.. Boy gets girl in the end.

2. Hero confronts ethical dilemma.  Hero makes wrong choice.  Hero suffers. Hero corrects choice.  Hero is rewarded in end.

Quote

Actually the first one already is derived from the 'from zero to hero' basic plot.  
I do have at home the basic types of film genres, if that is what you're looking for.  I'll try to find it in my Hiroshima-room.  I'll get back on it.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Il Buono on March 06, 2003, 04:11:03 PM
sorry, I kinda messed up the quote-thing above. ;D
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: cigar joe on March 06, 2003, 06:27:35 PM
Hiroshima Room? Now that is interesting.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: caius on March 07, 2003, 10:07:35 AM
yeah what is it?
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Mannaja on March 08, 2003, 11:22:05 PM
Shorty Larsen: I think James Woods said it best, he considered the opening scene of OUATITW to be like a Haiku-poem. I agree, it´s a marvellous scene, one of the best (if not THE best) opening scenes in cinema history.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Il Buono on March 09, 2003, 08:16:46 AM
yeah what is it?

It is a mess...  Like something exploded in there...
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: caius on March 10, 2003, 08:09:31 AM
Just got another e-mail from the proffesor apparently its six not seven. promise to update soon, its starting to get at my brain, like decartes i need this bloody knowledge
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: shorty larsen on March 10, 2003, 11:56:21 AM
James Woods said that about OUTW?

That's funny.

So he already knew Leone's work before shooting OUTA?
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: caius on March 11, 2003, 03:26:53 AM
Well i have failed in my quest to find what i want, but here is something about film theory for you cigar joe

ARISTOTLE'S SIX ELEMENTS of drama are Spectacle, Character, Fable (Plot), Diction, Melody, and Thought. These elements (slightly modified and re-interpreted for contemporary audiences) remain essential to modern films. Aristotle claims that, contrary to what one might expect, Plot or "the form of action" is the most important element. This is because, in Aristotle's view, the purpose of life "is a certain kind of activity" and drama ought to depict certain kinds of activity that we may learn the results of these forms of activities. Aristotle would reject the contemporary view (supported by insidious propaganda that acting is a high art form and by public fascination with the lives of actors) that the depiction of Character is central or most important. His argument: "Character gives us qualities, but it is in our actions -- what we do -- that we are happy or the reverse" (Poetics, 1450a18). "In a play accordingly they do not act in order to portray the Characters; they include the Characters for the sake of the action" (Poetics, 1461a15-20). He concludes that Character comes second (1450b1). It is important, however, to note that Character does interplay with the other elements, and (especially in films) it introduces morality. As Arisitotle says, "...character is what makes us ascribe certain moral qualities to the agents" (1450a4). Third is Thought, and this is not what the character says to reveal elements of the character, but what a character may say regarding important intellectual themes -- "all they say when proving or disproving some particular point, or enunciating some universal proposition." [In contemporary films it is sometimes asserted (with justification in some instances) that the director of the film actually controls "what is said or asserted," not through the dialogue, over which he has limited control, but through subliminal suggestion through the language of images alone. I reject, in part, this theory. See my Seven Mistakes.] Aristotle relegates the other elements to lesser importance in drama. A partial list of these elements, with examples, as they apply to contemporary films:

1. Plot: The Searchers (Horrible event befalls man, man chooses revenge, but finally chooses redemption and forgiveness).

Note: How plot relates to theme and what I call story is a complicated one. It has been argued, correctly, following Aristotle, that there are only few basic plots. If we state the plot of The Searchers as "man chooses revenge against INDIANS, we have a different, more specific understanding of the plot (a specific story). A basic plot and the story which enacts it introduces THEMES. In this case, the POSSIBILITY of forgiveness. These points aide, it remains as true today as in Aristotle's time -- and Hollywood writers generally accept it this -- that a good story (film) MUST have specific "plot points," or moments when the character makes a moral choice. By adhering to this rule, Hollywood writers can be said to accept Aristotle's idea that plot, rather than character, is central. Further complexities of this issue go beyond the scope of my comments here. See my Seven Mistakes and FAQs for more information.

2. Character: Lord of the Rings (Sam, a humble servant, is caught up in a titanic struggle).

3. Thought: "Life is a box of chocolates" (Forrest Gump).

4. Diction: Night of the Iguana, any Shakespeare.

5. Melody: Can be unnoticed (most films), or central to the impact of the Film, e.g., Theme from Star Wars.

6. Spectacle: Visual Impact, feeling of participating in large, grand events. Lord of the Rings, Ben Hur, Spartacus (Spartacus is an excellent example of a film in which all six elements are of high caliber.)

Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Angel Eyes on March 13, 2003, 03:33:03 AM
how can females like a film with " hardly any bloody talking in it"
uncultered heretics
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Il Buono on March 13, 2003, 07:50:41 AM
these mythical opening what do you mean by them?  I have heard of a theory in cinema whereby there are only 7 types of film/story.  I can't remember all of them or even precisely any of them but i am pretty sure when i tested every possible film it always fitted in as one or a few mixed.  Correct me if i am wrong about the number 7, it maybe more or less (just)

I had a scenario course in the beginning of the year and there were 11 genres described in it.  I don't know if this is what you mean, but I'll give it a shot.

- Love story: subgenre buddy salvation (love>friendship)

- Horror: subgenre Horror with realistic terror/ irrational terror with ghost dimension

- Epical modern: the individual against the state

- Western

- War: pro-/anti-films (Sometimes used as an alibi for a love story)

- Maturing plot (e.g. Bambi)

- Redemption plot: protagonist goes from evil to good (e.g. Schindler's List)

- Punitive plot: good guy becomes bad guy and is punished (The treasure of Sierra Madre)

- Testing plot: the will of man is on the line (the old man and the sea, Forrest Gump)

- Educational plot: the arch goes over a deep change of the protagonist's view of life from negative to positive (Pinocchio)

- Disillusionment plot: a deep change from a positive point of view to a negative one.


This is a translation from the course, I hope I did well...
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: cigar joe on March 13, 2003, 05:06:32 PM
Thanks for the film theory and genre info, I never took any courses in this stuff.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Il Buono on March 14, 2003, 07:03:55 AM
 ;)

If you want the rest, I can send it to you... if you can read Dutch... ;D
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: caius on March 17, 2003, 02:35:34 AM
yeah its like those genres except some one dumbed it down and made into story titles so that people could see which stories were mixed with each other.  So you could say, oh look that movie is cinderell mixed with robin hood.

Its like genres but with movie or story names
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: cigar joe on March 17, 2003, 04:20:43 PM
I can't read Dutch but thanks for the offer.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Il Buono on March 18, 2003, 12:48:23 PM
You're welcome.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: KERMIT on May 14, 2003, 12:08:42 PM
 
but my old girlfriend liked gb&u.....or was it clint that appealed to her ?  ::)

Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Jupa on December 06, 2003, 02:18:19 AM
I've been posting on this board (in its various incarnations) since 1998. And, I'm female ... ;)

Yes,I remember you!But I didn't know you're a woman.I've been posting here since 1997,BTW.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: COLONNA on December 18, 2003, 03:10:51 AM
I ask the women I know. Answers are:

-Too long
-Too men
-Too bloody
-Too dirty

It's significant that they prefer OUATIA because women characters and complex emotions

Women I know, it is only a sample, don't like Peckinpah (except the gateway) or John Woo for example.Not only Leone

They didn't like the cutted version of Seven Samouraï and like the complete one with a more relationships  between peoplel

They prefer Clint in Madison.
Title: Re:Do women love Leone too
Post by: Jupa on January 03, 2004, 04:02:50 AM
OK,so as regards female Leone fans,we have Lilly,KC,Karin and Jill thus far.Any other women here?