Sergio Leone Web Board

Films of Sergio Leone => Other Films => Topic started by: Guerrilla on May 20, 2004, 08:57:42 AM



Title: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Guerrilla on May 20, 2004, 08:57:42 AM
"The Assassination of Jesse James"-
Brad Pitt is in talks to star as Jesse James for director Andrew Dominik (Chopper), in the adaptation of Robert Hansen novel "The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford," according to Variety.

Dominik, an Australian vet of commercials and musicvideos, is in talks to write the script and direct.

The book focused on Robert Ford as a way to tell the James legend. Ford was a member of the James gang and started out worshipping the exploits of the fastest gun in the West. He eventually became envious and figured he'd take over the gang and garner his own reputation by shooting James in the back


Director Andrew Dominik has been signed up by Warner Bros. to helm and write an adaptation of the novel by Robert Hansen called The Assassination of Jesse James. Brad Pitt will star and the movie is being produced by his prod. co. Plan B and also Scott Free Productions. The book uses a member of Jesse James gang, Robert Ford, as its focus to tell the legend of the gunslinger Jesse James.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Nobody on May 05, 2005, 03:15:04 PM
Rumour has it that Ridley Scott's next film will be a western. Few of todays filmmakers has an eye for detail comparable to Ridley Scott, and I would love to see him do a western. Add a Hans Zimmer score to that, and I'll be there on the premiere. After the mildly dissapointing Kingdom of Heaven (and don't get me started on how much I disliked Black Hawk Down), this should put him right back on top in my book. It's based on a novel called Blood Meridian, which Empire describes as a "grim, bloody, nihilistic yet lyrical masterpiece". Sounds great. Read more about it here: http://www.empireonline.co.uk/site/news/newsstory.asp?news_id=16763


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Bill Carson on May 06, 2005, 04:21:20 PM
hola Nobody - it would indeed be fantastic to see a Western directed by 'Sir Ridley'; he is one of the best Directors working today (I liked BLACK HAWK DOWN)  but y'know, I heard that Mr. Scott and Mr. Zimmer fell out! seemingly, Ridley didn't like the idea of Zimmer scoring BATMAN BEGINS at the same time of working on KINGDOM OF HEAVEN hence Hans did NOT score KINGDOM....  it appears that one Mr. Spielberg also plans to shoot a Western sometime soon.... COOL!!  8)


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: KERMIT on May 06, 2005, 09:36:00 PM
 while  listening to a DVD version of LED ZEP'S "KASHMIR", it's as if the audio - visual  had a MORRICONESQUE/ LEONE spaghetti "feel" of it's own.   the group is playing what will be their last UK performance on a hot foggy august night @ NEBWORTH ' 79.  if anyone owns this DVD  pop on "ACHILLE LAST STAND".
check the, fog, music, and images, ect.  then, turn off the picture, and check out the soundtrack again. earphones are needed in order to hear the  stereophonic saturations of this film.  imagine what SIR RS/ LEONE sorceries come to mind.  imagination is the greatest nation on  earth  ;D




Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: The Smoker on May 07, 2005, 07:13:07 AM
The Coen Brothers have hovered on the idea of a western too. Rumours were about in 1998/99.
Or maybe 'O Brother Where Art Thou?' was originally set much earlier in American history. Not unfeasable when you look at the films interpretation of 'The Odyssey' in setting and nature.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: grandpa_chum on May 07, 2005, 01:41:06 PM
now i would love to see a western from spielberg... and maybe the coen brothers could do a good one, although i've never seen a bad coen brothers movie i'm not sure how they could with a western... but ridley scott? my god no!... it would just be crap like it always is, i've yet to see a ridly scott movie i didn't hate... it would just turn out to be a western gladiator, long, dull, visually stunning but overdone, the dialogue will suck, and it will all result in crap... thats my take.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Poggle on May 07, 2005, 02:58:52 PM
I always thought of Zeppelin that way too 8) Very theatrical.

No Quarter definately, especially the '75 versions, have that same kind of mood that Leone and RS movies carry. That and the San Francisco/Woodstock + violin bow part of D&C from '73/'75 8)

Ahh, bootlegs!


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: KERMIT on May 07, 2005, 10:19:01 PM
i wonder what the three way corrida would look like on film if fog machines. spotlights, the lot had their stops pulled all the way out on the three protagonists. roadies, and each bounty killer's managersuddenly two pull out les pauls with marshell amps circumferenced around the corrida. each musician  trys to outplay the other. tuco plays  tex-mex, A/Es thrash metal. blondie a red stratocaster straight through to his amps clean and honest.  blondie plays a simple E-min. pentatonic blues pattern over and over slowly hypnotizing A/Es.  then, all three play while symotaniously summoning up an ominous electrical storm that electrocutes A/Es who falls into the last grave at sadhill.  :-X "the bad" no vacancys


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Nobody on May 10, 2005, 04:51:03 PM
now i would love to see a western from spielberg... and maybe the coen brothers could do a good one, although i've never seen a bad coen brothers movie i'm not sure how they could with a western... but ridley scott? my god no!... it would just be crap like it always is, i've yet to see a ridly scott movie i didn't hate... it would just turn out to be a western gladiator, long, dull, visually stunning but overdone, the dialogue will suck, and it will all result in crap... thats my take.

I've actually never heard of any one hating Ridley Scott before. You hate all his films? Even Alien, The Duellists, and Blade Runner? Even the not-as-great-but-much-more-lighter Matchstick Men?

I'm on the other end here, not very interested in seeing a western from Spielberg. Although he's great when he just wants to entertain (Indiana Jones, etc.), I've never been a great fan of his more serious films. I know I'm in a minority here, but he usually picks rather uninteresting stories to tell, and pushes all the wrong buttons as far as I'm concerned. It's not nearly as bad as your usual Ron "I want another oscar" Howard film though.

I did not know Zimmer and Scott had a fallout though Bill Carson. Too bad, their collaboration has certainly been one of the better composer/director relationships after Sergio passed away.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: grandpa_chum on May 11, 2005, 10:38:42 PM
i will have to admit to only having seen gladiator, thelma and louise, and white squall.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on May 12, 2005, 01:41:55 AM
I don't like Ridley Scott much myself. His one great film was The Duelists, and then it's been all downhill ever since. The first 30 minutes of Blade Runner was pretty good, but what happened to the rest of the movie? _Legend_ is a joke. The 3 grandpa_chum mentions are some of the worst films ever made. And from reports of Kingdom of Heaven, Didley Squat is still up to his old tricks. A western from him would be dire.

Spielberg, however, could pull it off. I liked Empire of the Sun (except for the wretched music), which was very David Lean at times. Remember, the master himself aspired to Leanean cinema (the proof is in DYS), and that approach *can* produce good westerns. So I think Spielberg should at least take a whack at it.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Nobody on May 12, 2005, 04:46:34 AM
i will have to admit to only having seen gladiator, thelma and louise, and white squall.

I know a lot of people have problems with Gladiator. Personally, I think it's great, and I rarely like the huge oscar films. But if you don't like this, you can certainly skip Kingdom of Heaven. Thelma and Louise is also a film I really like, although the stupidity of the protagonists is hard to swallow from time to time. Harvey Keitel is great in it though.

Even if you hate these films, you ought to check out his first three films. Alien does deserve all the praise it has been given, and it is scary. Much of the film is designed by Giger, an artist who took drugs because he was scared by his own visions. His designs are scary and beautiful at the same time. Blade Runner is still his masterpiece though.

To a certain degree I agree with dave jenkins that Legend is a joke. The film is pretty even by Ridley Scott standards, and Tim Curry is great in it, but the plot is virtually non-existing. The film works slightly better in its directors cut version, but it't still far from great. Clearly, the filmmakers had good intentions, but I have no idea how anyone thought that this film would find an audience.





Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: grandpa_chum on May 12, 2005, 11:36:39 AM
alien is definitely on my to see list as well as blade runner(but a lot further down for br) and now i guess i'll have to see duelists...

i agree with dave about spielberg, i also like to look at the last half an hour of the last crusade as evidence that spielberg could do a great western, theres desert, horses, riding off into the sunset, shootouts and it's all done very well.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: grandpa_chum on May 12, 2005, 11:43:54 AM
oh and i have secretly wanted to see matchstick men.

and i did forget the 4th of his i've seen... gi jane... so i think he at the very least goes into the category of "great but makes a lot **** to even it out"... that is if all the great ones i haven't seen really are great, but with how gladiator is touted i doubt it.

i also have to admit on an unrelated topic, that i'm really excited about seeing alien because o'bannon's return of the living dead was so good.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on May 12, 2005, 09:14:04 PM
Alien was OK in 79, but what does it have to offer viewers today? Good production design, that's about it. It's just another There's-a-monster-in-the-house film.

And Gladiator is basically a remake of Fall of the Roman Empire. FOTRU is not the greatest film ever made, but it was directed by someone who knew how to make a film (Anthony Mann). It is extremely watchable, unlike Gladiator, which has bad CGI, migrane-inducing camera movements, and ugly colors.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: DJIMBO on May 13, 2005, 10:21:28 AM
ooh sorry dont agree there. alien is as powerful and it was then, its all about tension that film and its palpable, much better than the second one, its great, but its a shoot-em-up, alien was a horror film really


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: grandpa_chum on May 13, 2005, 12:42:35 PM
i guess it all depends if you can appreciate a well done "theres-a-monster-in-the-house" flick... i personally love 'em, if they are done right.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Nobody on May 13, 2005, 01:41:03 PM
Well, I have yet to see any of them done better than this. The closest would be Carpenter's The Thing. In Alien, less IS more.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Groggy on May 19, 2005, 04:01:55 PM
Rumour has it that Ridley Scott's next film will be a western. Few of todays filmmakers has an eye for detail comparable to Ridley Scott, and I would love to see him do a western. Add a Hans Zimmer score to that, and I'll be there on the premiere. After the mildly dissapointing Kingdom of Heaven (and don't get me started on how much I disliked Black Hawk Down), this should put him right back on top in my book. It's based on a novel called Blood Meridian, which Empire describes as a "grim, bloody, nihilistic yet lyrical masterpiece". Sounds great. Read more about it here: http://www.empireonline.co.uk/site/news/newsstory.asp?news_id=16763

I heard that none other than "Bloody Sam" was planning to make this film around the time of his death.  (Just in case no one else pointed this out already.  ::))


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on May 19, 2005, 07:33:53 PM
i guess it all depends if you can appreciate a well done "theres-a-monster-in-the-house" flick... i personally love 'em, if they are done right.
Yeah, but how many times can you watch the same one over and over? Once you've memorized all the shock visuals and audio stings, what is there left to enjoy? It would be impossible to watch, say, Alien 100 times, but I imagine that in my lifetime I'll have watched each of the Leone films at least that many times.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: JamesK on December 06, 2005, 11:45:45 AM
Since there hasn't been much activity here for a while, I guess I'll point out that the Ridley Scott western is for real, though it's quasi-historical in content and he's serving solely as producer.  I guess that's Scott's thing now.

Anyway, the film is called The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (http://imdb.com/title/tt0443680/), and is based on the novel of the same name by Ron Hansen.  Not as exciting as the rumor that kicked off this thread, certainly.  I guess we can all keep hoping.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on June 17, 2007, 11:56:37 PM
Here's an early review from Filmjerk.com. Interesting stuff. Here's an excerpt of the review I found interesting....

"No matter what shape the final film takes, I suspect it will be the best film the genre has seen since the days of Leone and Peckinpah. Yes, “The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford” is better than “Unforgiven.” Better than “Dances with Wolves.” Better than “Silverado” or “Wyatt Earp” or any other Western in the past thirty years. I cannot wait to see it again for the first time."

mmmmmm really ???

Anyway, here's the full review.

http://www.filmjerk.com/news/article.php?id_new=514


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Man with no dame on June 18, 2007, 12:57:00 AM
Here's an early review from Filmjerk.com. Interesting stuff. Here's an excerpt of the review I found interesting....

"No matter what shape the final film takes, I suspect it will be the best film the genre has seen since the days of Leone and Peckinpah. Yes, “The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford” is better than “Unforgiven.” Better than “Dances with Wolves.” Better than “Silverado” or “Wyatt Earp” or any other Western in the past thirty years. I cannot wait to see it again for the first time."

mmmmmm really ???

Anyway, here's the full review.

http://www.filmjerk.com/news/article.php?id_new=514

  Wow, if I may be so bold!


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on June 18, 2007, 03:10:43 PM
Yes, “The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford” is better than “Unforgiven.” Better than “Dances with Wolves.” Better than “Silverado” or “Wyatt Earp” or any other Western in the past thirty years.
Still, that sets the bar pretty low, doesn't it?


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Kurug3n on June 18, 2007, 04:41:44 PM
Still, that sets the bar pretty low, doesn't it?

yeah it kinda does but he did mention as great as Leone so theres hope O0


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Banjo on June 18, 2007, 05:04:13 PM
That long film title suggests that this movie is attempting to be historically accurate.I can hardly remember a thing about it,but i once saw a Jesse James documentary that suggested that the circumstances around James death are a complete myth, and (unless my memory's totally betraying me) that he may even have survived. :-\


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on June 18, 2007, 05:22:00 PM
Still, that sets the bar pretty low, doesn't it?

Are you kidding me? Sets the bar pretty low? I don't think so. We're talking about Unforgiven  and Dances With Wolves here, two MASTERPIECE'S in my opinion.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Kurug3n on June 18, 2007, 06:04:21 PM
Are you kidding me? Sets the bar pretty low? I don't think so. We're talking about Unforgiven  and Dances With Wolves here, two MASTERPIECE'S in my opinion.

Dances with Wolves was OK and so was Unforgiven


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on June 18, 2007, 07:11:28 PM
Dances with Wolves was OK and so was Unforgiven

Two pictures that won Best Picture are far from OK. That's just your opinion kurug3n. Now, needless to say, I do not always agree with the Academy but in my opinion they had them both right here. Yes, Dances With Wolves deserved it that year. It's an extremely beautifully well made EPIC. And Unforgiven? Come one, it only contains one of the best last 20 minutes to any film ever.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: cigar joe on June 18, 2007, 07:13:03 PM
Dances with Wolves was OK and so was Unforgiven


Yea I'll agree with that, They were just OK.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on June 18, 2007, 07:44:12 PM
Dances with Wolves was OK and so was Unforgiven


Yea I'll agree with that, They were just OK.

 :D :D :D :D >:( >:( >:(

Oh well. It's strange being on a western thread where many people acknowledge Unforgiven as "OK". I've never heard that on other message boards.  ??? ???


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: cigar joe on June 18, 2007, 08:12:23 PM
I guess I want less dialog driven dramas, more surrealistic sets, more Iconic characters, Morricone Music, we need more Leone style westerns.

I was watching one of the documentaries with Frayling in the new anthology and he was saying Leone created a whole new genre (he was meaning SW's), but I'm beginning to think its more than that and I'm taking that literally now, with FAFDM, GBU, & OUTITW, its Leonesque Westerns I crave !

I don't think we'll truly get a mind blower unless somebody follows his formula. O0


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on June 18, 2007, 08:19:23 PM
I guess I want less dialog driven dramas, more surrealistic sets, more Iconic characters, Morricone Music, we need more Leone style westerns.

I was watching one of the documentaries with Frayling in the new anthology and he was saying Leone created a whole new genre (he was meaning SW's), but I'm beginning to think its more than that and I'm taking that literally now, with FAFDM, GBU, & OUTITW, its Leonesque Westerns I crave !

I don't think we'll truly get a mind blower unless somebody follows his formula. O0

I understand what you're saying cigar, totally. Sergio Leone's style is incredible and it will be hard if we see anything like his work again. Unforgiven in a way was a more traditional western, but boy I loved it! It's all just a matter of opinion I guess. Some people hated the slow build up. I loved it! Some people hated the score of the film. It blew me away! It always amazes me how a simple piece of music such as "Claudia's Theme" can be so powerful and beautiful. An extremely touching theme.

I've also mentioned the ending. From the start of the conversation William Munny has with the Scofield Kid on the Hill as the girl approaches with their reward money, I'm absolutely blown away at the beauty of the filming. And when he finds out Ned is dead, wow, it is on. Powerful scene.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Kurug3n on June 18, 2007, 10:57:11 PM
And when he finds out Ned is dead, wow, it is on. Powerful scene.

to me after he rode away i was like Thats It?!?!? :o :o :o >:( >:(


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on June 18, 2007, 11:30:22 PM
to me after he rode away i was like Thats It?!?!? :o :o :o >:( >:(

Hey, it's just a matter of opinion I guess.  :)


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Jill on June 19, 2007, 05:23:44 AM
Mmmm. I can't wait for it...

Brad is sometimes a good actor, when he needs more than lookin' nice, and Jesse James is a good role. I think he'll work.
And who plays Robert Ford?  :)

Western is rising again in our times, it seems.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: cigar joe on June 19, 2007, 06:07:29 AM
I think part of the problem is there are hardly any Westerns being made, so that any that come along are an event & elevated on a pedestal and practically worshiped, lol.

"Unforgiven" was Eastwoods most ambicious Western to date, it was bigger than all the lower budgets he did before with major stars, that helped immensely.

"Dances With Wolves" is going to seem dated in the future its a bit too peace & love, probably like "Soldier Blue" fits in the Vietnam Era.



Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on June 19, 2007, 08:56:03 AM
Honestly though. For the western genre to make it all the way back, how many westerns a year would you like to see made?


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Jill on June 19, 2007, 09:40:07 AM
Not very much, but good ones. 10-15 would be enough... with good actors and directors.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on June 19, 2007, 09:57:05 AM
Not very much, but good ones. 10-15 would be enough... with good actors and directors.

I would absolutely be content with 10-15 westerns being made a year. That would be perfect in my opinion!


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: The Peacemaker on June 20, 2007, 02:24:11 PM
I agree with CJ.

Unless we see more brutal, action-packed westerns with lots of visual style the western will remain a dead genre.



Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: The Firecracker on June 20, 2007, 04:02:02 PM
it only contains one of the best last 20 minutes to any film ever.


The build up to the climax was great. The climax itself was a disappointment.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on June 20, 2007, 09:30:59 PM

The build up to the climax was great. The climax itself was a disappointment.

I guess I could agree with you somewhat here Firecracker. I can see where someone would not love the climax. I however love it .

William Munney walking into that Saloon all alone and seeing everyone's reaction when they notice him is hilarious. Seeing how scared everyone is was a site to see.

"See you in hell William Munney".

"Yeeahh."

Wow!


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: moviesceleton on June 21, 2007, 09:44:00 AM
I agree with CJ.

Unless we see more brutal, action-packed westerns with lots of visual style the western will remain a dead genre.


If there were no action-packed scifi movies with lots of visual style (Matrix, Star Wars etc.) would the scifi genre be dead?


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: The Peacemaker on June 21, 2007, 10:02:32 AM
If there were no action-packed scifi movies with lots of visual style (Matrix, Star Wars etc.) would the scifi genre be dead?

Yes.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: moviesceleton on June 21, 2007, 10:18:09 AM
OK.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: The Peacemaker on June 21, 2007, 10:24:52 AM
Well, you must admit, it was a dying genre. A genre I was never interested in, but it WAS dying.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: moviesceleton on June 21, 2007, 12:15:39 PM
It was dying before what?


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: The Peacemaker on June 21, 2007, 12:25:25 PM
I would say before the time of Star Wars.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: The Peacemaker on August 26, 2007, 11:54:09 PM
Looks pretty cool. Looks like it has some interesting visuals, but it looks a bit talky.

http://movies.aol.com/movie/the-assassination-of-jesse-james-by-the-coward-robert-ford/26180/video/trailer-no-2/1960752


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on August 27, 2007, 06:47:50 AM
Looks like a lot of talk.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: moviesceleton on August 27, 2007, 07:45:18 AM
Looks like a lot of talk.
Yeah, but I don't mind that. I say it looks great. Somebody said it's like if Terrence Mallick made a western, which sound awesome to me.

And I say also that it looks like this is not coming here :(


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Jill on August 27, 2007, 08:22:20 AM
I think this Robert Ford is a little... strange. Just watch how he looks at Jesse!  :o :-[


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on August 27, 2007, 09:34:00 AM
I can't wait. I look forward to any western nowadays.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Rojo Ramone on August 28, 2007, 07:07:19 PM
I'm so excited about this coming out. The movie was filmed in my province of Alberta~looks beautiful. O0
BTW they where asking us to be extras~but we had to have beards~so expect a lot of bearded extras.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on August 28, 2007, 07:34:50 PM
I'm so excited about this coming out. The movie was filmed in my province of Alberta~looks beautiful. O0
BTW they where asking us to be extras~but we had to have beards~so expect a lot of bearded extras.

Interesting fact about the bearded extras Rojo. I will look out for that when I watch the film.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: moviesceleton on September 02, 2007, 06:23:17 AM
I just got a word that this is coming here around the turn of the year! Cool! O0

Though, I don't know if it's coming to the theater close to me. But if it doesn't, I'll go to see it with my girlfriend, since she lives in a bigger town, city you might say.

I asked the biggest movie theater chain in Finland if this is coming here, and they answered yes (American Gangster is coming too), but they couldn't say anything about 3:10 to Yuma, Youth Without Youth or No Country for Old Men :'(


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: LITTLE BIG MAN on September 02, 2007, 12:32:25 PM
Hi Guys,

First time on the General Discussion Board - hope everyone is enjoying a great wknd. 

Anyway down to business.   I came across this film review today by my favourite film critic Todd McCarthy of Variety.  Now whats got me really excited about this film is McCarthy calls this "One of the best Westerns of the 1970s"! And this from a critic that doesn't dish out praise lightly!  The film premiers at Venice this week and opens in the US in December (for Oscar consideration).

Here is the first three paragraphs of the review, I don't want to give any spoilers, although the films title is obviously one!

A ravishing, magisterial, poetic epic that moves its characters toward their tragic destinies with all the implacability of a Greek drama, "The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford" is one of the best Westerns of the 1970s, which represents the highest possible praise. It's a magnificent throwback to a time when filmmakers found all sorts of ways to refashion Hollywood's oldest and most durable genre. Given the narrower current notion of what constitutes an acceptable commercial feature, Andrew Dominik's daring high-wire act will trod a very hard road to find secure theatrical footing, which suggests Warner Bros. might do best to nurture it in a small number of theaters in the hope that critical support and word of mouth will snowball into long runs and a slow rollout.
 
Whether it directly resembles them or not, this impeccable new picture is at one with the adventurous spirit that produced such films as "McCabe & Mrs. Miller," "Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid," "Bad Company," "The Great Northfield Minnesota Raid," "Jeremiah Johnson," "The Outlaw Josey Wales," "Days of Heaven," "The Long Riders" and, yes, "Heaven's Gate," rather than with anything being made today.

Shot two years ago and long delayed in editing, pic marks an enormous advance for Dominik beyond his 2000 Aussie prison crimer "Chopper." Elegant, artful and consumed by a fascination with American history and Western lore, his adaptation of Ron Hansen's popular 1983 novel retells the once overworked ground of outlaw legend so thoroughly that it has become fertile once again. Pic's hefty 160-minute running time will no doubt cause carping in some quarters, but this is one film whose length seems absolutely right for what it's doing.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: cigar joe on September 02, 2007, 12:42:54 PM
interesting thanks


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: titoli on September 02, 2007, 01:22:35 PM
I'd like to see the rest of the review to understand how the movie earned the praise. I don't mind spoilers (what kind of spoilers can there be in a story told a million time?).


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: LITTLE BIG MAN on September 02, 2007, 06:01:26 PM
Sorry I couldn't oblige Titoli, but since the review was from the trade rag Variety- their reviews tend to be thorough, plot, spoilers and all, so I didn't want to P** off all the Sergio vetran members (who might want to go see the movie) with my first post!  Anyhoo you know where you can read the full review.   For the record the film stars Brad Pitt (James) and Casey Affleck (Ford) - and according to the review, they both deliver sterling work.  Also there seems to be a bit of Sergio type history with this movie (Studio V Director) - the directors early 3 hour cut received mixed test screening results as did the later studio cut - in the end a compromise was reached and a new studio/director agreed version will screen in December.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: titoli on September 08, 2007, 03:56:46 PM
Pitt has just got his first important award with this.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Whalestoe on September 08, 2007, 04:23:59 PM
I just got a word that this is coming here around the turn of the year! Cool! O0

Though, I don't know if it's coming to the theater close to me. But if it doesn't, I'll go to see it with my girlfriend, since she lives in a bigger town, city you might say.

I asked the biggest movie theater chain in Finland if this is coming here, and they answered yes (American Gangster is coming too), but they couldn't say anything about 3:10 to Yuma, Youth Without Youth or No Country for Old Men :'(

Fingers crossed for you on those three. O0


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: cigar joe on September 17, 2007, 07:53:43 AM
Here is one of the first reviews. We will see how it stands up.

Jesse James, an Outlaw for All Seasons
 By TERRENCE RAFFERTY

Published: September 16, 2007

JESSE JAMES was in his short lifetime (1847-82) the most celebrated outlaw in the United States, maybe the world, and has managed to remain so even in death. Thanks in large part to the movies, which, for a while anyway, could be relied on to crank up a new version of the James gang mythology every few years or so. In the long-gone days of B westerns it was a lot more often than that. But the pace has slackened dramatically in the past three decades. We satisfy our guilty-pleasure appetite for vicarious criminality with different sorts of charismatic bad guys now.

Andrew Dominik’s ambitious new film, “The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford” (opening Friday), feels more like a novelty than it would have in, say, the 1950s, when westerns were as ubiquitous as tumbleweeds in a ghost town, or even in the late ’60s and early ’70s, when the counterculture grooved on the romance of banditry. It seems as if it has been a while since we’ve seen Jesse and his brother Frank and their narrow-eyed partners in crime stride slowly, warily into a bank or thunder down on a train, their long-handled pistols held high in the air, dusters flapping behind them.

Actually the last major-studio Jesse James picture came out a scant six years ago — “American Outlaws,” directed by Les Mayfield (“Flubber”) and starring Colin Farrell as handsome Jesse — though it bears so little resemblance to historical truth (or, for that matter, a plausible lie) that it probably shouldn’t count. Practically the only interesting thing about that instantly forgotten movie is the shamelessness of its attempt to tart up the Jamesian legends with contemporary attitudes. It’s the beer-commercial version, all joshing and wisecracking and frat-boy camaraderie. And it has, as the real Jesse James did not, a happy ending.

Risible as “American Outlaws” is, it’s hardly the first western to seem more strongly colored by the preoccupations of the time in which it was made than by those of the time in which it’s set. Historical accuracy never really had much to do with the western’s cultural value, or with our long affection for it. Westerns are the stories we used to tell ourselves about our origins, about the sources of our native pluck and resilience. They were part of the messy, improvisational process by which Americans define — and revise, and define again — a national self-image, and one of the many reasons to regret the demise of westerns is that without them it’s just a little tougher for us to figure out who we are. (These days we need all the help we can get.)

“The Assassination of Jesse James” is nearly as glum as “American Outlaws” is inanely buoyant. Is it safe to say that the national mood has darkened in the last six years? Mr. Dominik’s movie, which stars Brad Pitt as a weathered-looking Jesse and Casey Affleck as Robert Ford, the creepy young hanger-on who shoots him in the back, has a bit of the tentative, meandering, exploratory quality of a ’70s revisionist western: Mr. Pitt appears at times to be channeling Warren Beatty’s squinty performance in Robert Altman’s “McCabe & Mrs. Miller” (1971), and the relationship between the outlaw and his assassin carries more than a faint whiff of the dance-of-death fatalism that Sam Peckinpah imparted to his 1973 “Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid.” The new movie doesn’t know quite how to feel about either of its main characters, except that each, in his different way, is something of a con artist, and that each, also in a different way, is an extremely sad man.

This melancholy, uncertain tone makes a sharp contrast to Samuel Fuller’s “I Shot Jesse James” (1949), which tells more or less the same story in a manner as bold and punchy and confident as its tabloidy title would lead you to expect: nothing tentative about Mr. Fuller’s style, even in his first picture. (It recently made its debut on DVD as part of a Criterion box called “The First Films of Samuel Fuller.”)

But there are, movie history has shown, a fair number of ways to approach the Jesse James saga. A good deal of the enduring fascination of James — and of outlaws in general — is that he’s an ambiguous figure, attractive in some respects, repellent in others. This leaves plenty of wide-open spaces for interpretation and perhaps for the projection of our own conflicted feelings about the relative merits of law and rowdy, hell-for-leather lawlessness.

Jesse James was even in his own brief day seen by many as a kind of Robin Hood, though, as T. J. Stiles’s excellent 2002 biography “Jesse James: Last Rebel of the Civil War” points out, the conviction with which people held this view depended to an extent on whether they shared his dedication to the failed cause of the Confederacy.

In the movies, of course, the young, dashing, fearless bank or train robber will always enjoy a wee visual advantage over the respectable businessmen he torments, with their paunches, receding hairlines, stiff collars and unmanly anxieties about the safety of their money and pampered skins. And filmmakers tend to rub it in by casting exceptionally good-looking guys as Jesse: the likes of Mr. Pitt and Mr. Farrell and, in earlier versions, Tyrone Power, Robert Wagner, Rob Lowe. But moviemakers also tend to have qualms about promoting antisocial behavior — even by bona fide historical figures — too vigorously.

So every film portrayal of Jesse James is to some degree a showdown between sympathy and antipathy, with the outcome always in doubt. Henry King’s splashy, enjoyable, utterly unreliable 1939 “Jesse James” (the Tyrone Power one) puts its ambivalence right up front, in an opening title that reads, in part, “It was this uncertain and lawless age that gave to the world, for good or ill, its most famous outlaws, the brothers Frank and Jesse James.”

For good or ill? Maybe ambivalence is too kind a word for writing like that. But this is a movie that tries awfully hard to be reasonable, in a socially conscious Depression-era way, that wants us to understand, as Jesse’s eulogist says in the final scene, that “he wasn’t altogether to blame for what his times made him.” To ensure that audience would get the point, though, the film has to make Jesse’s times look suspiciously like the 1930s, with honest, simple rural folk turned into thieves and fugitives by the greed of big business, and then hounded to their deaths.

When Nicholas Ray got around to making what he called “The True Story of Jesse James” (the Robert Wagner one) in 1957, the spin was different. It’s a darn sight more accurate than Mr. King’s movie, but, this being the ’50s, there’s a touch of the juvenile delinquent to the James boys here. They are impressively coiffed — hair combed scrupulously back at the sides, but with a lock or two flopped broodingly over the forehead — and they do not always wear shirts. And when things start to go bad for the gang, and Jesse turns mean, Frank explains it like this: “In the beginning, we had a reason.” In other words, Jesse’s become a rebel without a cause, a notion that probably rang a bell with Mr. Ray.

Philip Kaufman’s “Great Northfield Minnesota Raid,” which opened in 1972 and is finally coming to DVD later this month, suffers no such agonies of explanation. In the manner of its own much more casual time, it doesn’t fret about responsibility (or historical precision) but simply straps on its outlaw spirit and goes out to take what it can get: a little action, a few laughs, some wayward, out-of-the-blue lyricism. It’s closer in tone to French New Wave pictures like “Shoot the Piano Player” than to a traditional western, and that too is a quality of its time.

And Walter Hill’s “Long Riders” (1980), also dispenses, to its benefit, with any social or psychological apologia for the Jameses and their gang and proves that you can make a beautiful, thoroughly traditional western without any such hemming and hawing. He treats the James myth as a story about home and family ties, casting brothers — Keaches, Carradines, Quaids and Guests — as brothers, and alternating spectacular, Kurosawa-like action sequences with community gatherings and quiet courtship rituals.

Mr. Hill’s movie, like Mr. Kaufman’s, doesn’t waste breath on theories, homilies or attitude adjustment. It concerns itself only with the job of making something interesting and putting it out in the world. And then it says: Take it or leave it. That’s as American as Jesse James.



Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Sonny on September 17, 2007, 08:52:47 AM

Thanks for the info CJ.

It's fair to assume that this movie won't do very well at the box office.  I never even heard of "American Outlaws" and that came out fairly recently.  And I agree, it definitely shouldn't count as "the last Jesse James movie" before The Assassination of Jesse James...


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Jill on September 17, 2007, 10:07:08 AM
If it's following Altman and Peckinpah, it must be really an art movie.  O0 And very melancholic.
I wonder what will happen with Robert Ford. (What happens with Jesse, we all know.) What was the historical Ford's fate? I don't think he became a grandfather and died from old age.  ;D

And an award in Venice means much more in our days than the Oscar. I feel the Oscar has no value more. It had earlier, perhaps. Venice, Cannes, Berlin - yeah. That's something.  ;)


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: moviesceleton on September 17, 2007, 10:34:22 AM
If it's following Altman and Peckinpah, it must be really an art movie.  O0 And very melancholic.
I wonder what will happen with Robert Ford. (What happens with Jesse, we all know.) What was the historical Ford's fate? I don't think he became a grandfather and died from old age.  ;D

And an award in Venice means much more in our days than the Oscar. I feel the Oscar has no value more. It had earlier, perhaps. Venice, Cannes, Berlin - yeah. That's something.  ;)
Agreed. But what that has to do with this film? Is it there in the competition series?


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Jill on September 17, 2007, 12:18:57 PM
Brad Pitt won an award on Venice Film Festival for this role.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Whalestoe on September 17, 2007, 02:10:33 PM
If it's following Altman and Peckinpah, it must be really an art movie.  O0 And very melancholic.
I wonder what will happen with Robert Ford. (What happens with Jesse, we all know.) What was the historical Ford's fate? I don't think he became a grandfather and died from old age.  ;D

And an award in Venice means much more in our days than the Oscar. I feel the Oscar has no value more. It had earlier, perhaps. Venice, Cannes, Berlin - yeah. That's something.  ;)

From Wikipedia:

"...on June 8, 1892, Ed O'Kelley entered Ford's tent saloon with a sawed-off shotgun. According to witnesses, Ford's back was turned. O'Kelley said, "Hello, Bob." As Ford turned to see who it was, O'Kelley fired both barrels, killing Ford instantly. O'Kelley became "the man who killed the man who killed Jesse James." There is speculation that Soapy Smith may have encouraged the shooting.

Ford was buried in Creede, but was later exhumed and reburied in Missouri."


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Jill on September 17, 2007, 02:34:50 PM
He got very quickly what he deserved.  ;D

It's strange. Men who killed the famous outlaws were killed later too.  ;)


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on September 18, 2007, 08:52:24 AM
So, this is not getting a WIDE release? I want to see this damn film in the theatre. What the heck is going on here?!


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: The Peacemaker on September 23, 2007, 05:24:58 PM
Anyone see this yet?


I've been looking around but the movie's not playing anywhere around here. Maybe I'll just go into the city next week to see it.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: The Firecracker on September 23, 2007, 05:26:25 PM
Only playing in three states and Florida isn't one of them >:(


Peace, you have to check this out. Don't blow the oppertunity.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: The Peacemaker on September 23, 2007, 05:29:14 PM
Actually, looking on fandango right now I can see that it's playing a lot closer than I thought.



I must go see this one like FC said. It looks brilliant.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: cigar joe on September 24, 2007, 07:44:46 AM
Good, Bad or Ugly: A Legend Shrouded in Gunsmoke Remains Hazy
 By MANOHLA DARGIS

Published: September 21, 2007

Before a bullet shattered his skull in 1882, Jesse James cut a bloody swath through parts of the Midwest and the South, leaving a trail of corpses and favorable press notices in his wake. Bad man, poor man, bushwhacker, thief, James was as American as apple pie and the Confederate flag he wrapped himself in like an excuse. That bard of the great unwashed, Woody Guthrie, compared him to Robin Hood, and decades later Bruce Springsteen kept the fires burning, singing about a homespun legend as seductive as it is false.

The lachrymose new film “The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford” adds another gauzy chapter to the overtaxed James myth, if not much rhyme or reason, heart or soul. Topped by Brad Pitt wearing boot-black hair and a faraway stare, this is a portrait of the murderer as a middle-aged man as seen through the curious mirror of celebrity. At a well-seasoned 34, James lives in an ordinary house in an ordinary town, where he sits in his backyard smoking cigars and handling snakes, a devil playing at preacher. His days with Confederacy guerrillas are long gone, as are most of his crimes. Among his closest companions now is his greatest fan, Bob Ford, a gunslinger slyly played by Casey Affleck.

As its title announces, “The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford” is about a murder, the last violent chapter in a cruelly violent life. As such, it’s also about a celebrity stalker, a kind of Mark David Chapman in spurs who nurses an annihilating love for the object of his obsession. It’s an obsession fueled and fanned by the media, including the sympathetic newsmen who saw James as a heroic anti-Reconstructionist, and the fiction writers who memorialized and even exalted the brutal exploits of his gang. Like a schoolgirl with a crush, Bob Ford keeps his treasured Jesse James dime novels in a box under his bed. When he caresses the cover of one book, it’s as if he were tenderly stroking a lover’s cheek.

If there was more to Bob’s love, you won’t find it here, despite a coy bathtub scene that finds James luxuriating in milky water while the younger man hovers uncertainly nearby. “You want to be like me or do you want to be me?” asks James, casting his glance back at the man others would later brand Judas. In this nearly all-male world of camaraderie and gunsmoke, where little women bustle discreetly in the background (including Mary-Louise Parker as James’s wife, Zee), the ways of the flesh, of heaving, stinking, struggling humanity, have little place. For all their exploded bone and ravaged pulp, their trickles and rivulets of blood, the men in this film aren’t as much bodies as beautiful, empty signifiers.

In his last — and first — feature film, “Chopper” (2000), the New Zealand-born director Andrew Dominik seemed on the same wavelength as his raucous, at times queasy, entertaining subject, the ultrabrutal criminal reprobate of the title, played by Eric Bana. Neither overtly sympathetic nor disapproving, the filmmaker presented his villain as a larger-than-life but unequivocally human grotesque. Using color like an Expressionist, he bleached the screen a sizzling white that turned blood red nearly black and splashed on hues of bilious green and urine yellow as if to suggest that Chopper’s fluids had leaked from his body to contaminate his surroundings. The colors sicken and beguile, as does the human riddle at their center.

There’s a different riddle in “The Assassination of Jesse James,” staring into a florid sunset, slashes of red cutting across the sky. Dressed in near-all black, the question mark known as Jesse James stands away from the camera, knee-deep in a golden, grassy field stirred by the wind or perhaps just an off-screen mechanical fan.

It’s a striking, pleasing image, whatever the case, pretty as a picture postcard, a vision of man and nature that brings to mind Thoreau at Walden Pond or more precisely Terrence Malick’s “Days of Heaven.” James is also facing West, of course, toward the last frontier, home to cowboys and Indians and prospectors of all types, including, soon enough, those who will wield movie cameras, not six-shooters.

If he had lived, James might have saddled up for the movies, and, indeed, his own son played him in the 1921 film “Jesse James Under the Black Flag.” When “The Assassination” opens in September 1881, shortly before his final train robbery and seven months before his death, James was already a star of sorts, a living if fast-aging legend, a favorite newspaper subject, a government target and the featured attraction in hundreds of dime novels with titles like “The James Boys and the Vigilantes.” Mr. Pitt is himself a supernova luminary, of course, and part of the attraction of this film is how his celebrity feeds into that of his character, adding shadings to what is, finally, an overconceptualized if under-intellectualized endeavor.

It’s a curious performance, at once central and indistinct, but then, so too is the character. Based on the novel of the same title by Ron Hansen, the film introduces James at the beginning of his end. Hunkered down in some woods, surrounded by darkly dressed men and leafless birch trees, and framed by Roger Deakins’s impeccable, stark, high-contrast cinematography, he looks a vision. This isn’t just Jesse James — it’s also Jim Morrison at the Whisky in 1966 with a dash of Laurence Olivier, a touch of Warren Beatty and more than a hint of Ralph Lauren. It’s the beautiful bad man, knowing and doomed, awaiting his fate like some Greco-Hollywood hero, rather than the psychotic racist of historical record.

The movies have their truths, which rarely align with those of history. Taken on its own narrow, heavily aestheticized and poetic-realist terms, then, “The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford” works. The cinematography may speak to Mr. Dominik’s yearning for meaning and importance more than it does of his outlaw, but the visuals often dazzle and enthrall. (The images that approximate the blurred distortions characteristic of pinhole photography are especially striking.) They also distract and, after a while, help weigh down the film, which sinks under the heaviness of images so painstakingly art directed, so fetishistically lighted and adorned, that there isn’t a drop of life left in them. Instead of daguerreotype, Mr. Dominik works in stone.

The question of whether the world or cinema needs another monument to an American gangster, a thug who lived by the gun and repeatedly killed in cold blood, remains unanswered by the film and its makers. And perhaps that isn’t a question worth asking. This is, after all, meant to be an evening’s entertainment, and its burdens should remain modest even if its goals are not. Its revelations, aside from Mr. Affleck’s performance, which manages to make the character seem dumb and the actor wily and smart, are nonexistent. The true story of Jesse James, despite all the dime novels and B movies, remains untold, perhaps because in its savagery it really is as American as apple pie and, as such, unspeakably hard to tell.



Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: moviesceleton on September 24, 2007, 08:54:07 AM
Thanks cigar O0

Despite this review and some other negative ones too, I'll try to see it when it comes here.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: mal247 on September 24, 2007, 09:01:37 AM
It's a must see movie for me.

 :)


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on September 24, 2007, 09:02:34 AM
It's a must see movie for me.

 :)

I can't wait to see this. I have a few friends down in NYC who have seen it and they said it was outstanding.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Rojo Ramone on September 24, 2007, 04:16:11 PM
Damn!  I'm looking so forward to this moody film. I saw a clip with Nick Cave in it and just discovered that he co-wrote the music in it. I've read glowing reviews on it but everyone agrees it's not for everyone...some will think it's too arty or pretentious.
Some of the town scenes were filmed about 10 blocks from me...if I find out that Nick Cave was here, and worse yet played a club, I'd die.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on September 24, 2007, 04:28:46 PM
Thanks for posting, CJ, what appears to be a pretty insightful review. Reading between the lines, it sounds like there's an action scene at the beginning of the film, but thereafter nothing but talking and posing until the final act (which we all know in advance is coming). Sounds pretentious as hell, but I'll probably have to see it anyway.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on September 24, 2007, 04:31:43 PM
What I've heard about this film is that aspects of it play out like a Terrence Malick film. Being a lover of Terrence's work, I'm pretty excited about this. I wish it was playing near me!


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on September 24, 2007, 06:17:06 PM
Well, there are Malick films, and then there are Malick films. Patterning a Jesse James film on Badlands makes sense, but Days of Heaven? I will withhold judgement, however, so that it may fall all the heavier on the day of viewing.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: titoli on September 25, 2007, 11:10:46 AM
Quote
Taken on its own narrow, heavily aestheticized and poetic-realist terms, then, “The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford” works. The cinematography may speak to Mr. Dominik’s yearning for meaning and importance more than it does of his outlaw, but the visuals often dazzle and enthrall.

Considering the longishness of the review to say very little, this capsule judgement makes me fear a boring hell, like Blueberry. Hope I'm wrong, though.
 


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on September 25, 2007, 10:16:43 PM
Andrew Dominik interview: http://filmmakermagazine.com/webexclusives/2007/09/last-man-standing-by-nick-dawson.php


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: moviesceleton on September 26, 2007, 06:01:44 AM
Andrew Dominik interview: http://filmmakermagazine.com/webexclusives/2007/09/last-man-standing-by-nick-dawson.php
O0 Thanks!


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: cigar joe on October 12, 2007, 07:53:45 PM
WTF is up with this release, its still Not in local theaters, and I'll be damned if I'm going to hop a train to New York City to see it


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: The Firecracker on October 12, 2007, 08:12:12 PM
WTF is up with this release, its still Not in local theaters, and I'll be damned if I'm going to hop a train to New York City to see it

It started playing in Miami (FINALLY!) today.
I'll check it out tomorrow.



Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: The Firecracker on October 13, 2007, 08:02:40 PM
Just got back from the theatre with Sonny. I liked it quite a bit.
I can see why some people wouldn't though. The whole film is basically James and co.  traveling from house to house with interludes of horse riding through wheat fields before entering the next interior set.
The last half hour takes on a totally different mold though which, to me, was the most compelling of the whole film (All movies should follow that formula for it's third act of course).

9/10


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: PowerRR on October 14, 2007, 09:24:26 PM
I'm seeing this Wednesday.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Sonny on October 14, 2007, 10:17:25 PM

I liked it, not just for Brad Pitt... just to clear that up...  ;)   ;D

It focuses on Jesse James' last few months alive, which would explain why there aren't that many action sequences. The movie starts off during the James Gang's final train robbery.  The rest of the movie just follows Jesse's suspicions of the last members of the gang and their plot to kill him. I thought it was good.  O0


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Whalestoe on October 16, 2007, 09:27:58 PM
I just watched this for the second time today with some friends. I think I'm the only one that has some strange sympathy for Robert Ford (post-James death). Plus, the ending narrative gets me each time.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: The Firecracker on October 16, 2007, 09:40:20 PM
I just watched this for the second time today with some friends. I think I'm the only one that has some strange sympathy for Robert Ford (post-James death). Plus, the ending narrative gets me each time.


It's a strange affair with the "who are you in favor for" department...


I first found James to be a totally unlikable brute but shortly before his death he wins us over. Then Ford becomes a total douche from then on.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Whalestoe on October 16, 2007, 09:47:20 PM

It's a strange affair with the "who are you in favor for" department...


I first found James to be a totally unlikable brute but shortly before his death he wins us over. Then Ford becomes a total douche from then on.

I thought Ford was a douche with the reinactment of James' murder, but the drunken, death threat receiving, hated Bob Ford that couldn't "express" (or however the film puts it) how he now felt about the situation; I felt bad for him.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Ringo on October 27, 2007, 11:05:56 PM
I thought the movie was really terrific in all aspects - score, (especially) cinematography, and story. My only complaints is that there are a few too many unecessary characters and the movie seems to wander from the main story in the middle.

Pitt was pretty good, Affleck was great, but the real standout was Sam Rockwell. His character was the most tragic in my opinion, and he pulls it off beautifully.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Jill on October 30, 2007, 02:27:05 PM
And the Hungarian theaters still don't play it.  :'(

I want to see this... 3:10 too. But our cinemas are suckers.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: moviesceleton on October 30, 2007, 02:35:12 PM
And the Hungarian theaters still don't play it.  :'(

I want to see this... 3:10 too. But our cinemas are suckers.
It might take some time, be patient. We're getting it early next year and Japan is getting it in March!

Marmota, this is opening there the 8th of November. Are you going?


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: J B on October 31, 2007, 11:11:10 AM
I thought it was a really excellent movie all around.  The only thing I wasn't particularly hot on was a lot of the narration.  I liked it at the very start of the movie and at the very end, but for the most part, I found it unnecassary.  I only like narration when it adds something that you wouldn't already know to the story.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Whalestoe on November 02, 2007, 01:04:05 AM
I thought it was a really excellent movie all around.  The only thing I wasn't particularly hot on was a lot of the narration.  I liked it at the very start of the movie and at the very end, but for the most part, I found it unnecassary.  I only like narration when it adds something that you wouldn't already know to the story.

I loved the narration, if you've read the book it really, really makes the movie feel like one of the best film adaptations of a novel ever. The poetic flare added from the narration and Hugh Ross' voice were both amazing. O0


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: moviesceleton on November 05, 2007, 02:04:27 PM
It might take some time, be patient. We're getting it early next year and Japan is getting it in March!

Marmota, this is opening there the 8th of November. Are you going?
I might repeat that question.



Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Whalestoe on December 01, 2007, 05:49:26 PM
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=66401

DVD release date, cover art, and a lack of special features revealed.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 02, 2008, 08:18:05 PM
Uh oh: http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117978128.html?categoryId=2520&cs=1&query=jesse+james


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Whalestoe on January 02, 2008, 09:04:26 PM
Uh oh: http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117978128.html?categoryId=2520&cs=1&query=jesse+james

How about the fact that this film was poorly marketed? How many ads did anyone see? I tell people about it all the time at work and they respond with: "When did that come out?" No one's star power can help a film that isn't advertised. This and Atonement are my two favorite movies of 2007. There Will Be Blood will probably end up on top though.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: cigar joe on January 02, 2008, 09:22:01 PM
I agree it never had a wide opening so wtf did Warner Bros expect. I never got to see it and wanted to.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 24, 2008, 03:41:39 AM
Beaver:
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews35/assassination_of_jesse_james_by_coward_robert_ford.htm


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: cigar joe on January 24, 2008, 04:58:58 AM
thanks dave jenkins.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Whalestoe on January 24, 2008, 10:12:19 AM
Thanks, Daaave.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Jill on January 25, 2008, 02:44:15 PM
Finally, it will come at February 28 by us  O0


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on January 31, 2008, 02:04:45 AM
The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford - 9/10. On the eve of the DVD release this is playing the local bargain theater ($3) so I gave it a shot and was pleasantly surprised. A fantastic soundtrack, Western Canada looks wonderful, Casey Afleck is amazing, and Brad Pitt (for a change) didn't annoy me too much. Roger Deakins' cinematography is overly artsy-fartsy, but as the story is fairly simple the images never really get in the way. I enjoyed the film's leisurely pace and the fact that time was taken with the characters; even some of the supporting roles are given plenty of opportunity to develop. And there were a couple of cameos that made me chuckle (James Carville (as the governor of Missouri), Nick Cave (as a saloon singer late in the film doing the Jesse James  ballad)). By the end the piece turns out to be more about Ford than James; James always remains something of a cipher, but the filmmakers get their investment in Afleck's performance to pay off when Ford emerges (finally) as both interesting and sympathetic. The film put me in mind of the great 70s Westerns, including McCabe, PG&BtK, and The Great Minnesota Bank Raid, but also of the greatest gangster film of all time, Goodfellas (1990). If you hang around with a killer, there always comes a point where you have to decide to get him before he gets you; Bob Ford, I guess, was the Henry Hill of his day, and this movie is as much a gangster flick as a Western. I've probably been conned, but I came away from the film feeling like I'd seen a bit of history rather than just another genre picture.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Whalestoe on January 31, 2008, 02:48:53 AM
The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford - 9/10. On the eve of the DVD release this is playing the local bargain theater ($3) so I gave it a shot and was pleasantly surprised. A fantastic soundtrack, Western Canada looks wonderful, Casey Afleck is amazing, and Brad Pitt (for a change) didn't annoy me too much. Roger Deakins' cinematography is overly artsy-fartsy, but as the story is fairly simple the images never really get in the way. I enjoyed the film's leisurely pace and the fact that time was taken with the characters; even some of the supporting roles are given plenty of opportunity to develop. And there were a couple of cameos that made me chuckle (James Carville (as the governor of Missouri), Nick Cave (as a saloon singer late in the film doing the Jesse James  ballad)). By the end the piece turns out to be more about Ford than James; James always remains something of a cipher, but the filmmakers get their investment in Afleck's performance to pay off when Ford emerges (finally) as both interesting and sympathetic. The film put me in mind of the great 70s Westerns, including McCabe, PG&BtK, and The Great Minnesota Bank Raid, but also of the greatest gangster film of all time, Goodfellas (1990). If you hang around with a killer, there always comes a point where you have to decide to get him before he gets you; Bob Ford, I guess, was the Henry Hill of his day, and this movie is as much a gangster flick as a Western. I've probably been conned, but I came away from the film feeling like I'd seen a bit of history rather than just another genre picture.

Excellent write up, Jenkins. I'm glad you enjoyed it O0

I just rented it early from my work and plan to watch it tomorrow with some friends.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: The Firecracker on January 31, 2008, 08:14:29 AM
The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford - 9/10. On the eve of the DVD release this is playing the local bargain theater ($3) so I gave it a shot and was pleasantly surprised. A fantastic soundtrack, Western Canada looks wonderful, Casey Afleck is amazing, and Brad Pitt (for a change) didn't annoy me too much. Roger Deakins' cinematography is overly artsy-fartsy, but as the story is fairly simple the images never really get in the way. I enjoyed the film's leisurely pace and the fact that time was taken with the characters; even some of the supporting roles are given plenty of opportunity to develop. And there were a couple of cameos that made me chuckle (James Carville (as the governor of Missouri), Nick Cave (as a saloon singer late in the film doing the Jesse James  ballad)). By the end the piece turns out to be more about Ford than James; James always remains something of a cipher, but the filmmakers get their investment in Afleck's performance to pay off when Ford emerges (finally) as both interesting and sympathetic. The film put me in mind of the great 70s Westerns, including McCabe, PG&BtK, and The Great Minnesota Bank Raid, but also of the greatest gangster film of all time, Goodfellas (1990). If you hang around with a killer, there always comes a point where you have to decide to get him before he gets you; Bob Ford, I guess, was the Henry Hill of his day, and this movie is as much a gangster flick as a Western. I've probably been conned, but I came away from the film feeling like I'd seen a bit of history rather than just another genre picture.


Agreed 100%.

Take Juno's nomination away from her and give it to Jesse.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Ben Tyreen on February 05, 2008, 09:14:49 PM
  Rented this today and I'm sorry to say......but I was disappointed with it.  I went into it really wanting to like it, but came away disappointed with what I saw.  Hours later, I'm still trying to put into words why I didn't really care for the movie.  Brad Pitt was excellent as Jesse James, the Nick Cave score was great, and the cinematography was gorgeous, but it was missing something that I can't put my finger on. 

  And it wasn't the lack of action, I can live with that, but I did feel it went on a little too long.  Felt like some parts in the middle could have been trimmed some.  I go 5 maybe 6 out of ten on this one. :'(


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Whalestoe on February 05, 2008, 11:20:45 PM
  Rented this today and I'm sorry to say......but I was disappointed with it.  I went into it really wanting to like it, but came away disappointed with what I saw.  Hours later, I'm still trying to put into words why I didn't really care for the movie.  Brad Pitt was excellent as Jesse James, the Nick Cave score was great, and the cinematography was gorgeous, but it was missing something that I can't put my finger on. 

  And it wasn't the lack of action, I can live with that, but I did feel it went on a little too long.  Felt like some parts in the middle could have been trimmed some.  I go 5 maybe 6 out of ten on this one. :'(

Weird-o.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 06, 2008, 12:37:03 AM
I think it helps a lot to see it on the big screen. I just got back from my second viewing of it in a cinema and I enjoyed it as much as I did the first time. The ending keeps getting better in my mind. And I really like the pacing; that more than anything helps sell the idea that I am seeing Missouri in the early 1880s. It's an illusion, of course, but one that serves the story and its setting. Anything like typical Hollywood cutting would have seemed inappropriate. The pacing is probably the only thing the film has in common with Leone (although there is one coffee-stirring scene), but then SL was concerned with myth and TAOJJBTCRF is obsessed with historical--not accuracy, necessarily--authenticity. 


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 08, 2008, 10:57:19 AM

Man, how I'm pissed that this was a limited theatre release. I would have loved to see this on the big screen! This may be to intellectual and boring for some, but it was the complete opposite for me. It's a talky, slow moving western that's a brilliant character study. It's not a shoot 'em up western by no means. If you're looking for that, I suggest you pass on this. If you've ever seen a Terrence Malick film, this film mirror's his style quite a bit. It's literally poetry in motion. A masterpiece. This should have been nominated for best picture.

Wow, this film is f ucking outstanding! Holy sh*t how I was engrossed in it while I was watching. You know the ending of the film, yet at the same time, you didn't know what action's these characters were going to take from scene to scene. The tention was very high which I always love.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: cigar joe on February 08, 2008, 05:18:50 PM
Yea I wish I saw this in a theater too, watched it last might, will go into it more after I watch it a second time. O0


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on February 08, 2008, 08:03:13 PM
Yea I wish I saw this in a theater too, watched it last might, will go into it more after I watch it a second time. O0

Go into it more huh cigar. That doesn't sound good coming from you. haha. I hope you at least liked it your first go around.  ;)


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: cigar joe on February 16, 2008, 06:42:13 PM
Ok watched it again last night, its a beautifully shot atmospheric film, but I don't know wether down the line it will be considered a classic of the Western genre or not. Its more of a biography more like a "Gandhi" or "The Last Emperor" but it just happens to be set in Missouri/Kansas and is mostly about a historical figure Robert Ford and the events leading up to and the consequences of his assassination of Jesse James. Its got a few great set pieces, the opening Train robbery being one, Jesse's last home and Creed, Colorado the other. Its got a few homages sprinkled here and there notably to McCabe & Mrs. Miller. It has some nice camera angles but like a previous poster mentioned some of them got a bit redundant.

It's another deconstruction of the Western, no myth, no legend,  a story just brought down to an every day psychological melodrama in a historically accurate Western setting, with no likeable characters.   In that respect is exactly like "Once Upon A Time in America".  But in fact in this film almost all the characters are downright creepy, and in that respect its more like the recent "There Will Be Blood". We watch then at a distance with curiosity but we do not internally day dream or fantasize about being like them.

It seems as if the Western Genre has split into two polarized schools, one being the "historically accurate school" (costume, dialog) the other the "mindlessly action oriented school" (action for action sake with ridiculous story to bridge the action sequences) the two recent examples being this film & "3:10 To Yuma" (2007) . 

Somehow they seem to have forgot how to combine the two to make the Mythic Western that is for the most part historically accurate looking , action oriented and entertaining on all levels at the same time. 

I had the same dissapointment with TV's "Deadwood" being based to historical fact creativity became hand tied and it became almost a soap opera, better had it been loosely based of not just the history of Deadwood, but Tombstone, Last Chance Gulch, Virginia City, Wild Horse, Dawson, and Nome,  more of a fictitious Boom town taking incidents from all, more like the fictitious mob in the Soprano's where somebody gets whacked (gun-downed) every episode.

The closest film I've seen to a Mythic style Western recently is the Downunder "The Proposition".

This is not a film I'm going to watch over & over repeatedly.

Oh, and smokeless powder wasn't invented until 1884, so the scene where Wood Hyte and Dick Liddle shoot it out and Robert Ford blows Hyte's brains out should have had the room filled with black powder smoke, a nitpick , but not as accurate as it could have been.






Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 16, 2008, 11:12:14 PM
Ok watched it again last night, its a beautifully shot atmospheric film, but I don't know wether down the line it will be considered a classic of the Western genre or not. Its more of a biography more like a "Gandhi" or "The Last Emperor" but it just happens to be set in Missouri/Kansas and is mostly about a historical figure Robert Ford and the events leading up to and the consequences of his assassination of Jesse James. Its got a few great set pieces, the opening Train robbery being one, Jesse's last home and Creed, Colorado the other. Its got a few homages sprinkled here and there notably to McCabe & Mrs. Miller. It has some nice camera angles but like a previous poster mentioned some of them got a bit redundant.

It's another deconstruction of the Western, no myth, no legend,  a story just brought down to an every day psychological melodrama in a historically accurate Western setting, with no likeable characters.   In that respect is exactly like "Once Upon A Time in America".  But in fact in this film almost all the characters are downright creepy, and in that respect its more like the recent "There Will Be Blood". We watch then at a distance with curiosity but we do not internally day dream or fantasize about being like them.

It seems as if the Western Genre has split into two polarized schools, one being the "historically accurate school" (costume, dialog) the other the "mindlessly action oriented school" (action for action sake with ridiculous story to bridge the action sequences) the two recent examples being this film & "3:10 To Yuma" (2007) . 
That's a good point, but that's the way things have been pretty much since the 70s. I don't mind the split so much (there's room for both), what disappoints me is the fact that "the historically accurate" type can be done fairly well now but the "action oriented school" really sucks (and it doesn't necessarily have to be "mindless'). It would take another Leone or Peckinpah to recombine the two, and there's little hope of seeing such a director anytime soon.

The movie that TAOFFBTCRF reminds me most of is Goodfellas. I think by the end Robert Ford has actually earned our sympathy. He didn't have a witness protection program to go into, so he had to work with things the way they were at the time.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: cigar joe on February 17, 2008, 04:24:26 AM
Quote
The movie that TAOFFBTCRF reminds me most of is Goodfellas. I think by the end Robert Ford has actually earned our sympathy. He didn't have a witness protection program to go into, so he had to work with things the way they were at the time.


Yes but in Goodfellas you like Ray Liotta's character right from the get go, and that doesn't change.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 17, 2008, 07:14:29 PM
I actually get tired of Henry Hill's rationalizations, and by the time he gives his summation at the end I've lost a lot of sympathy for the guy. With Ford the trajectory is the other way.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: titoli on February 17, 2008, 11:22:42 PM
Is Henry Hill supposed to earn any kind of "sympathy"? He sure is more "sympathetical" than De Niro and Pesci's characters, but the word is a little too big applied to him.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 18, 2008, 12:27:27 AM
Well, sympathy naturally goes to the central character of any work, at least provisionally, until such time as the audience decides to withdraw it. That's how it's possible to have heroes and villains even in a film dealing exclusively with gangsters or the mafia.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: KevinJCBJK on February 25, 2008, 07:04:03 PM
I've watched this recently, and I found it a decent film. Cinematography was beautiful. Casey Affleck's peformance was Oscar worthy, but no match for Javier Bardem.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 25, 2008, 09:55:30 PM
Found this very provocative post over at the criterionforums site left by someone calling himself "Via Chicago." I've edited it slightly:

Quote
The narration in James is not straightforward at all. Like Barry Lyndon, the ironic use of a godlike narration at times completely contradicts and calls into question what we are being shown on screen. It doesn't narrate what we are seeing and it doesn't fill in the gaps. Like any great work of historiography, it causes us to question the reality of the image and the history that the image is presenting. Take the following quote for example:

"He also had a condition that was referred to as "granulated eyelids" and it caused him to blink more than usual as if he found creation slightly more than he could accept. Rooms seemed hotter when he was in them. Rains fell straighter. Clocks slowed. Sounds were amplified. He considered himself a Southern loyalist and guerrilla in a Civil War that never ended. He regretted neither his robberies, nor the seventeen murders that he laid claim to. He had seen another summer under in Kansas City, Missouri and on September 5th in the year 1881, he was thirty-four-years-old."

These words are ostensibly illustrated by the film; we see Jesse meeting with merchants, sitting in his rocking chair, etc. However, there is a total disconnect between the obvious historiographical voice of the narration (it posits opinions that are not expressed in the film, and others that are never shown) and that which transpires on the screen. In some sense, there is this tacit connection between James and Pitt, whereby Dominick is making pointed claims about "celebrity culture." However, as much as critics talked at length about this aspect of the film, what stuck out to me was that the film is in many ways about history. The quote above, like many in the film, and the accompanying images suggest the old Fordian adage: "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

There is a constant push-pull between legend and fact. The narration is meant to evoke the "fact," the image, the "legend." And yet nothing could be further from what actually transpires on the screen. Instead, it is the narration that is subjective, the image objective. And often vice versa. This reversal is the most interesting aspect of the film, and Dominick is constantly (and I believe, consciously) doing this.

Much could be made of the length of the film, that the final cut was partially out of Dominick's hands. However, this is to miss the point. The way that characters slide in and out of the narrative not only reflects a kind of Herodotean historical consciousness (in that the digresssions are at once totally extraneous to the main body of the text, while simultaneously important to our understanding of that same text), but it also reflects the shifting dualities and changes found in life itself. The film expresses mortality in an extremely mature way not often found in modern cinema.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: moviesceleton on February 27, 2008, 03:43:33 PM
I just got back from the theater watching this movie and I gotta say I enjoyed it. One thing, though (nothing to do with the movie itself): They were obviously using a digital projector :'( And by doing that they fucked up the beautiful cinematography at points; I'm talking about the snow scenes mostly and some others with bright lights too. In middle of this beautiful shot there were pixels. WTF? I'm going to the movies and I get the same kinda picture I'd get at home! I don't want to sound like an prick here. To be fair at least there were no scrathces and stuff that I was expecting considering how long the movie had run. Nah, never mind that...I still got to see a good movie O0


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 27, 2008, 04:52:06 PM
What you report is very disturbing. Assassination is a film that is considerably improved by a true cinematic presentation (i.e. using film projection). In fact, the early reports on the Blu-ray disc noted pixelization and fringing, so the only way at present to properly see this work of cinematographic virtuosity is at movie houses.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Noodles_SlowStir on February 27, 2008, 06:49:16 PM
Glad you were able to see a film you had wanted to see on the big screen.  I think I would of been a little disappointed as well going to a movie theater.  I wonder how widespread this is in some of the secondary theaters....also university campus film theaters.  I have fond memories of checking some films out at schools that have a film series.  I was able to catch OUATITW on the big screen at a student cinema.  A while back I went to a local museum that specializes in british art.  They had film showings on the weekend during the winter.  So I went to see Neil Jordan's Mona Lisa on the big screen.  It was a DVD projection.  I wasn't so upset because it wasn't a very big theater and it was free......


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Whalestoe on February 28, 2008, 07:31:09 AM
What you report is very disturbing. Assassination is a film that is considerably improved by a true cinematic presentation (i.e. using film projection). In fact, the early reports on the Blu-ray disc noted pixelization and fringing, so the only way at present to properly see this work of cinematographic virtuosity is at movie houses.

I've watched it on Blu-ray recently at work, and the pixelization is very apparent. Compared to other films we've played on the PS3 it looked like trash.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 28, 2008, 09:31:13 AM
It's obviously a difficult film to transfer.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Whalestoe on February 28, 2008, 12:55:33 PM
It's obviously a difficult film to transfer.

 >:(


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on February 28, 2008, 01:32:39 PM
Perhaps it's Dominick's and Deakins' way of ensuring that film as a medium will live on just a bit longer.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on March 07, 2008, 05:13:59 PM
An interesting take: http://criticafterdark.blogspot.com/2008/02/assassination-of-jesse-james-by-coward.html


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: cigar joe on March 07, 2008, 08:27:22 PM
interesting take, he even favors "Northfield" and doesn't mention "The Long Riders" .


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: T.H. on July 22, 2008, 10:56:35 PM
I finally saw this and I am underwhelmed. I didn't care for the narration, much of the story (why so many useless characters?) and the glass/lens effect used to open each scene was just flat out pretentious. Deakins is an amazing cinematographer but I felt many of the shots were repetitive. How many times is The Searchers-esque backlit doorway/window going to be utilized to reveal approaching riders? Pitt was very good but fails when his character is asked to be more than a coy criminal. Casey Affleck was impressive and the Nick Cave cameo was amazing because Nick Cave is my hero. I would much rather see a film about that character, to be honest. As far as Cave's score, it was solid but not as ambitious as it should have been. Cave is a major talent, if your looking for a standard Hollywood score, why bother with a musical genius?

When are directors going to cease using the cheesy sped-up cloud effect. It's incredibly lame and ridiculously overused. This movie will not age well, it incorporates too much of 21st Century techniques/fads: yellowish/gray filters and the overall ultra natural tones that are commonplace in every historical movie in the last ten years. Scenes using candlelight were wonderful but are too reminiscent of Barry Lyndon. There needs to be some factor that separates itself from Lyndon, you can't just cop a movie's stlye, it ain't cool. What's the deal with this hyper-realism craze? I don't understand and never will.

The train robbery scene is the standout sequence in this film, it's well executed. It's disappointing that the rest of movie doesn't touch this moment. Another gripe is how Dominik incorporates violence. In the shootout where Jesse's cousin (the guy who looks like Jeff Tweedy of Wilco fame) is shot by Dick Liddle (sp?), the gunplay seems realistic for the time period, their guns are not reliable. This would be a positive aspect if this stays constant, however it doesn't. After that moment, all gun shots occur with 100% pin point accuracy. This is very bothersome.

Overall, I would still give the movie a 7/10 but it has its issues.

Edit: A couple little tidbits I would like to add. This film has a nice pace, even I didn't particularly care for whatever was happening on screen at the moment. Also, what's the point the last 25 minutes? If Dominik is concerned so much with Ford character, wouldn't it make more sense to spend more time after the murder for the audience to sympathize with the character and to make Ford more interesting from the start? Too little too late.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on July 23, 2008, 01:03:04 PM
Also, what's the point the last 25 minutes? If Dominik is concerned so much with Ford character, wouldn't it make more sense to spend more time after the murder for the audience to sympathize with the character and to make Ford more interesting from the start? Too little too late.
The last 25 minutes is the payoff for everything that has come before. I take the point of the movie to be that Bob Ford was a nobody until he shot JJ; following that he was briefly a celebrity, then a has-been, then a kind of martyr. His life post assassination follows the arc of a tragic hero. This is interesting because he is also a kind of Judas figure; but since JJ is a kind of Anti-Christ, the question being raised seems to be: Is the betrayer of a betrayer in fact a virtuous man? In any event, I think it's impossible to build sympathy for Ford until late in the story (because prior to that he is a complete nullity), and that is exactly what Dominik succeeds in doing. I'd say it was just enough, and in time.

I grant you all your other objections to the film, but I have to ask, if this film only gets a 7, which films of recent vintage are worthy of an 8, 9, 10? For all its pretensions, there are very few contemporary films that are as visually interesting. Outside of the Frank Miller films, Linklater's A Scanner Darkly, Zodiac, and No Country For Old Men, everything else coming out of Hollywood and Indyland has pretty much the same Standard Industry Look. And one thing more can be said in TAoJJbtCRF's favor: it remains defiantly a film, resistant to all attempts (so far) to capture it on video.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: T.H. on July 23, 2008, 08:00:52 PM
The last 25 minutes is the payoff for everything that has come before. I take the point of the movie to be that Bob Ford was a nobody until he shot JJ; following that he was briefly a celebrity, then a has-been, then a kind of martyr. His life post assassination follows the arc of a tragic hero. This is interesting because he is also a kind of Judas figure; but since JJ is a kind of Anti-Christ, the question being raised seems to be: Is the betrayer of a betrayer in fact a virtuous man? In any event, I think it's impossible to build sympathy for Ford until late in the story (because prior to that he is a complete nullity), and that is exactly what Dominik succeeds in doing. I'd say it was just enough, and in time.

I grant you all your other objections to the film, but I have to ask, if this film only gets a 7, which films of recent vintage are worthy of an 8, 9, 10? For all its pretensions, there are very few contemporary films that are as visually interesting. Outside of the Frank Miller films, Linklater's A Scanner Darkly, Zodiac, and No Country For Old Men, everything else coming out of Hollywood and Indyland has pretty much the same Standard Industry Look. And one thing more can be said in TAoJJbtCRF's favor: it remains defiantly a film, resistant to all attempts (so far) to capture it on video.

My hang-up isn't that Bob's not likeable, it's that he doesn't even have any redeeming qualities, you can probably make a case that he isn't human. He never changes, not even wavers in the first 120 minuters and I should have originally stated that most of his change in the last 25 mins. is done through narration. I'm not much of a fan of voiceover work when it's constantly used to further the story and/or the arc of a character. To me, those final 25 minutes is akin to reading a very long passage along the lines of John Milner dying in a car accident or Curt Henderson achieving something of great importance. You always make great points Jenkins but I still think that the murder should have occured sooner in the story.

I'm really not much a fan of 00s cinema. There are only a handful of movies that I find to be visually stunning, the standout for me is Jeunet's Amelie. I love bright colors, most contemporary director's have abandoned the bright tones for whatever reasons. No Country For Old Men does the "00s look" the best, much better than TAoJJbtCRF. I haven't seen Zodiac and A Scanner Darkly yet so I can't comment. My favorite young director is PT Anderson and I'm afraid that his best days were spent in the 90s, although it may be a bit premature to make such a bold statement. I wouldn't even know where to begin to make a favorites list, I know that I would probably include the following:

Dog Days (Ulrich Seidl)
The Man Who Wasn't There
Bus 174 (If documentaries qualify)
No Country for Old Men
Amelie
City of God

I do need to see more from this decade though.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on July 23, 2008, 10:01:15 PM
My hang-up isn't that Bob's not likeable, it's that he doesn't even have any redeeming qualities, you can probably make a case that he isn't human. He never changes, not even wavers in the first 120 minuters and I should have originally stated that most of his change in the last 25 mins. is done through narration. I'm not much of a fan of voiceover work when it's constantly used to further the story and/or the arc of a character.
I usually agree with this, but I allow room for exceptions: what would films noir be without voice over? I just rewatched Double Indemnity and half the plot is spoken by Fred McMurray. It's a way of producing an entertainment that is a kind of hybrid of film and an audio book. It's not the kind of thing I want often, but every once in a while, for a special project, it can be interesting. Dominik's film is such a project.

Okay, you listened to me, here's your reward:

(http://image.guim.co.uk/Guardian/film/gallery/2008/mar/27/roger.deakins/GD6698889_jessejames-4100.jpg)


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: T.H. on July 23, 2008, 11:36:35 PM
I usually agree with this, but I allow room for exceptions: what would films noir be without voice over? I just rewatched Double Indemnity and half the plot is spoken by Fred McMurray. It's a way of producing an entertainment that is a kind of hybrid of film and an audio book. It's not the kind of thing I want often, but every once in a while, for a special project, it can be interesting. Dominik's film is such a project.

I love VO work in noirs, I really don't know why they work so well and how it can add so much to a story and never feel like the screenwriter is taking a shortcut. I guess Billy Wilder or Raymond Chandler help that cause considerably. My issue with narration in films like Goodfellas and TAoJJbtCRF is that they take away from the imagery. In noir, the story moves so fast that the VO seems more natural to the story, we need help assessing the convoluted plot and characters. In larger productions such as these, shouldn't the images be the main source of storytelling? With that said, I certainly understand where your coming from and how you view TAoJJbtCRF as an exception. When I see this again, maybe my score gets bumped to an 8.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Groggy on July 24, 2008, 06:12:53 AM
I would rate TAOJJBTCRF as a 9/10, and perhaps the best film of the decade behind Munich. I loved the cinematography, some of the best I've ever seen, and Brad Pitt was amazing as Jesse James. I did find Casey Affleck a mite underwhelming but he did a good job after the assassination. The screenplay was wonderful, being period without seeming contrived and obnoxious. And as with many other films, I'm compelled to give it points for giving me an actress I ordinarily can't stand - in this case, Mary-Louise Parker - and making her not hittable.

PS: Amelie isn't that good Tuco. :(


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: T.H. on July 24, 2008, 10:54:46 AM
Amelie is easily one of the best films I've seen this decade. That doesn't mean that I think it's a masterpiece or anything of the like, it's just indicates how weak this decade has been thus far. It's a beautiful looking movie, and for that alone, makes it worthy imo.

A Few Good Men isn't a good movie >:D


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Groggy on July 24, 2008, 04:28:32 PM
That movie came out in the '90s, dude. Quit going off-topic. ::)


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: T.H. on July 24, 2008, 05:20:43 PM
...You can't handle the topic.








sorry, for the bad joke.

I completely forgot about Mulholland Drive, my favorite of this decade.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: The Firecracker on August 14, 2008, 07:18:54 PM
After that moment, all gun shots occur with 100% pin point accuracy. This is very bothersome.


Well how often does a gun get fired in this picture besides the scene you pin-pointed?

Jesse kills a few of his own men at, nearly, point-blank range and one would assume that Jesse was a crack shot.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: T.H. on August 16, 2008, 09:41:36 AM
I think it's a valid complaint but I understand how some may disagree. There may have been two or three scenes (maybe more?) which involved gunplay after the murder of the Jeff Tweedy look-a-like. In my opinion, that's enough to warrant the complaint and each shot was 100% dead on.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Amaze on September 12, 2008, 07:51:23 PM
I saw it a few months ago, and didnt really care for it. it had good acting I remember and I guess the cinematography was good but it was exhausting to get through the whole thing. way too much talking and just plain weird moments. and not funny weird, more like what the hell is going on here-weird.

to sum it up, boring movie.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: tucumcari bound on September 14, 2008, 07:08:30 PM
I saw it a few months ago, and didnt really care for it. it had good acting I remember and I guess the cinematography was good but it was exhausting to get through the whole thing. way too much talking and just plain weird moments. and not funny weird, more like what the hell is going on here-weird.

to sum it up, boring movie.

There was never a boring moment for me.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: manuel on October 18, 2008, 12:42:16 AM
This is definitley my most favorite film of all time. It is beautiful and tear jerking. Simply beautiful.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: titoli on October 27, 2008, 03:34:20 PM
I've finally bought a cheap dvd of this and glad I didn't see it in a cinema. I had trouble following its english  even by reading subs so I can't imagine what the (usually inept) italian translators may have cooked up to render it.
This is  hardly a western. I don't know what to do with westerns like this or Gone with the Wind. Actually I think it shouldn't even have made this section of the forum.  I didn't like all that talk, most of the time repetitive and going nowhere toward explaining what makes these people tick. After watching it I can't say I know more about Jesse and Robert (the true protagonist of the movie) than I knew before watching the movie. It can't hold not even distantly a candle to The Long Riders, still the best among the ones I saw of James movies. Here you don't have action except for the initial (very good) train heist. Then it's all confrontation between James and his ex-pards. A couple are interesting and that is what made me appreciate the movie, but  most of the time you have the impression of marking time. Whole sequences like the James's aunt's seduction could have been cut without consequences). Then I don't like Pitt's acting (he still has to learn his trade: he's young, though) but Affleck is very good, though not helped by the screenplay. The music is very good also, but I can't remember a single note except for the ballad sung by the minstrel which is famous on its own. 7\10


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: cigar joe on October 27, 2008, 07:26:26 PM
Its not a really a Western it is a historical bio pic.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: titoli on October 28, 2008, 01:40:36 AM
Its not a really a Western it is a historical bio pic.

So you agree it shouldn't be in this section?


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: cigar joe on October 28, 2008, 06:10:27 AM
No not if we hold to strict standards, but I don't think we have any at the moment.

Here is my new "crusade" so to speak.  (from a previous post on Golden Age Westerns)

One thing about Westerns that I've been contemplating about and trying to put a finger on is what exactly is different about todays Westerns. For some reason they don't seem the same as the Classics. You'll you read comments that various posters say about some of the few Westerns that come out comments like "they don't make them like they used to", or "they don't know how to make them anymore". Besides some of the obvious differences i.e. steady/shaky cam, cgi and blue screen, what else is making them seem different?

I think I've finally got it figured out and what it is is that is difference is that Westerns that were made in the 1939-1973 "Golden Age of The Western" (both in film & TV) have a certain pallet, part of it is a look that we who lived through that period or those of us that are Western Aficionados or just have seen a lot of Westerns recognise as being the "correct look" for a Western  a feel that is the "correct feel" for a Western and certain traits that comprize the "correct deportment's" for a Western. Once you get those conventions correct then you can, within those conventions,  try and push the envelope in a creative way, as for example Spaghetti Westerns did.

I just concentrated on the hat as a focal point, in the "A Treatsie On Just WTF Is Up With The Cowboy Hat" thread  because that is one of the first things I've noticed about modern Westerns the unusual amount of huge Stetson cowboy hats (I wouldn't be suprized in the least if Stetson or Resitol is paying for product placement in these films) which it seems are propped on the heads of contemporary actors no matter how stupid it makes them look.
The treatsie shows through historical photographs that not everyone in the west wore ten gallon style Stetsons in fact Stetsons weren't even around until a decade after the Civil War. 
 
Granted that during that time period for the Golden Age Western there was a gradual flexability in character motivations between 1939 and and the early 1960's, look at the controversy surrounding the psychological Westerns and notably "High Noon". Later a more jarring one with comming of the anti hero in the Spaghetti Westerns, but the conventional look stayed generally within the same boundaries. We also had a more realistic depiction of violence ratcheted up over that period........

Forget the hewing close to historical accuracy BS, or trying to hard to get the archaic speech patterns correct, the more modern directors attempt to make a Western too true to the actual historical West the farther they get away from the classic Western Genre and its look. 

Watching a Western should be like slipping into a comfortable old pair of shoes.

Its almost like trying to make a modern Film Noir,  it just doesn't look quite right. The difference with Film Noir and Neo Noir is for more obvious and readily understandable reasons, in Neo Noir everything looks to crisp, clear and new, you don't have that contemporary for the time post WWII rundown shabby outdoor locations and can't get new stockfootage to match the old look, nor do you have,  the steam locomotives the rolling stock, etc., etc., Noir was contemporary with the historical time it was shot and you are not shooting in Black & White on top of all that. 

For Westerns it shouldn't be THAT hard to get that classic look and old pair of shoes feeling correct, its just costuming, and the classic landscapes can be revisited and give an instantaneous cachet to a project and there are still a lot of great untapped landscapes out there available that are way more accessible in this day and age than in the past.

So "Assassination  of JJ" is in reality either Bio Pic or Historical Costume Drama.



Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: titoli on October 28, 2008, 07:41:48 AM
That's it. We agree. I had no doubt about that.  8)


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: Groggy on October 28, 2008, 08:31:06 AM
On what planet is Gone With the Wind a Western Titoli? You and Sergio are the two people I've ever heard refer to it as such. ::)


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: titoli on October 28, 2008, 10:02:53 AM
Same planet where The Assassination is.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: dave jenkins on October 28, 2008, 11:39:14 AM
Quote
Forget the hewing close to historical accuracy BS, or trying to hard to get the archaic speech patterns correct, the more modern directors attempt to make a Western too true to the actual historical West the farther they get away from the classic Western Genre and its look.

This is the kernel of your observation, and a solid one. "Westerns" aren't about U.S. history at all (except in regard to certain stage properties) and are instead related to such other genres as classical epic, medieval romance, and modern adventure tales. Odysseus, Orlando, Conan, John Carter, Shane, and The Man With Many Names are all cousins. To make a good Western, then, you have to pretty much ignore the historical record and tap into the great archetypes. The West, on this view, is a place rather than a period, a twilight world suspended between timelessness and eternity (cue Fanfare).

As it happens, 19th Century U.S. history, though a separate realm, is also interesting and worth treating cinematically. But how do you present such a setting and avoid the Western label? Clearly, the film industry is not equipped to draw such distinctions, and how many viewers can be bothered either? Sure, the 8 people who regularly post on this board can get exercised over the matter, but that's about where it's all going to end. For practical purposes, there will never be a separation between Westerns and 19th Century U.S. historical films, so it would be counter-productive to insist on one for this board. We need to give newcomers and visitors a break.

Meanwhile, the question arises: are people even making Westerns anymore? Maybe all we're getting is historical epics in Western clothes. Maybe the last actual Western was made back in the 70s.


Title: Re: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (2007)
Post by: marmota-b on April 25, 2009, 07:12:55 AM
Okay, you listened to me, here's your reward:

(http://image.guim.co.uk/Guardian/film/gallery/2008/mar/27/roger.deakins/GD6698889_jessejames-4100.jpg)

Can it be my reward, too? :D That's one shot that really caught my eye in the film, more than anything else.