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March 18, 2019, 03:24:02 PM
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Messages - noodles_leone

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1
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Orson Welles
« on: Today at 04:11:36 AM »
 ;D

2
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Orson Welles
« on: Today at 02:18:11 AM »
Nobody loves it? Everybody finds it excruciating?

4 out of 4 stars https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-other-side-of-the-wind-2018

One of the Best Films of 2018 https://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/sight-sound-magazine/comment/bradlands/other-side-wind-orson-welles-impossible-film

4 out of 5 stars https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-reviews/other-side-of-the-wind-movie-review-746393/

A-Minus http://homepages.sover.net/~ozus/othersideofthewind.html

4 out of 5 stars https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/31/the-other-side-of-the-wind-review-lost-orson-welles-epic-satire

Yeah, yeah, a few reviewers, in the heat of the moment. Let a couple of years go by and we'll see how many times they've rewatched it. A few months have passed and I already see way more articles and discussion about Blade Runner 2049, that was a 2017 box office flop, than about The Other Side of the Wind. Actually, outside of this board, I don't think I've seen anybody discuss that movie since the first few days of 2019.

I'm pretty sure it would have been a HUGE flop (probably Welles' biggest one) but a highly influential movie had it been released at the time. Now it comes a few years after Hollywood finally gave up with the "fast cutting, shaky cam" trend, and a full decade after the found footage trend. It means it was released after we went way too far with its 2 biggest cinematographic bets. So however ahead of its time it was, the film's form struggles to be relevant.

3
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Orson Welles
« on: Today at 02:15:02 AM »
I don't give a damn how "talented" a filmmaker is, or how much of a "genius" he is. I like to watch good movies and I hate to watch bad movies.

I get that. Now, like it or not, a huge chunk of the films you think are good and that were made after Welles would have never existed, or they wouldn't have been half that good. So you may not give a shit about him, it doesn't change anything: he's been too influential.

And most of what Welles made was shit or average. I don't care how much he coulda woulda shoulda done. I care about how much pleasure, as a movie fan, he gives me. And Welles didn't give me much pleasure beyond Citizen Kane.

I think that's where you're wrong. I don't like much of his movies either. They're deeply flawed, and we could discuss that for hours (but not too loud because you don't want to wake up Stanton). I think DJ will agree on this: Welles lacked a true screenwriter next to him. He had great screenwriting skills but he would have needed someone to cover the basics while he worked on the ambitious stuff. Still, "average" is probably the worst word you could have came up with. They are everything but average. There is a huge, huge difference between "partly great, partly turd" and "average". The fact that Welles films are the very opposite of average is the key thing to understand.

Movies are about both art and entertainment. We can have endless debates about whether the two are mutually exclusive or identical or the relative importance of each and how much they are intertwined, etc. But without entertainment, a film/filmmaker has no value. And for me, Welles produced minimal entertainment.

Now I'm not asking you to enjoy watching them. I'm saying he's in the league that is above subjective taste. The fact that you end up watching almost all of his films while not liking them is already a testament to that.


The way people talk about Welles reminds me of Mickey Mantle. Mantle was a very famous baseball player from the 1950's and 1960's. He suffered numerous devastating injuries, so he missed lots of games, and the games in which he did play, he was often hurt. BY the end of his career, it was sad to watch him, he could barely move due to his injuries. So a big part of the Mickey Mantle Story is what could have been.

But injuries or not, Mantle indeed was one of the greatest baseball players ever! (I won't go into the statistics cuz you Europeans don't know or care about that stuff, but) the fact is that he indeed was one of the all-time greats. Without the injuries, he could have been even better! Maybe without the injuries he could have been one of the 5 greatest players ever - but even with the injuries he was one of the 10 or 20 greatest ever. So it's ok to talk about what "could have been." Because his output indeed was great.

But Welles's output was crap. When a guy had great output, you can talk about how much greater he could have been. But when a guy's output was shit, I'm sick and tired of hearing about him. Talent and genius and potential don't mean jack. Output is what matters. And any filmmaker who made more than one great movie already has a better output than Welles.


Like I said, Welles isn't about "could have been". He's about "is". He's about having changed cinema forever (and for the better) even with his lesser films... and still changing it right now because he's still directly influencing many current filmmakers and indirectly influencing most, if not all of them.

Sorry if it sounds grandiloquent, but simple truths that everybody knows about often do when put to words.

I enjoyed Netflix's documentary about the making of The Other Side of the Wind (it's called They'll Love Me When I'm Dead) far more than I enjoyed The Other Side of the Wind.

Same here. So much that I was able to finish the documentary, while I still have to finish The Other Side of the Wind. Although what will stay with me forever (and, I hope, in my craft) are moments from the Welles' film, not from the documentary.

4
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Orson Welles
« on: Yesterday at 05:18:40 AM »
I just finished The Other Side of the Wind. It took several excruciating sessions to get through this piece of shit.

I guess those people who consider Welles to be a genius whose every word contains hidden gems of mysticism we mere mortals cannot understand, and who are fascinated with his life and the autobiographical aspects of the movie, either truly love it or focre themselves to. I couldn't stand it.

The only good thing I can say about this is a hilarious Edmond O'Brien.

I don’t think anybody actually loves it. Everybody finds it excruciating. Yet, there are plenty of good to great things in it by one of the most talented filmmakers ever (that title, in 2019, isn’t an opinion anymore, it’s a fact).

Like it’s often the case, I find it also easier to spot why a guy is a genius and how he achieved genius results by watching his failed attempts. Because the craft is more visible. The lack of polish makes the essence of his work more discernable. That being said I yet have to find the courage to watch the final hour.

5
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Shutter Island (2010)
« on: March 16, 2019, 04:44:40 AM »
N_L are you the only one with any sense 'round these parts? Shutter Island is excellent for this reason.

Yes and yes.

6
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Rate The Last Movie You Saw
« on: March 15, 2019, 07:59:16 AM »
Army of Shadows (1969)   I finally got back around to watching this after starting it a few months back.  Jean Pierre Melville is one of my favorite directors.  The movie was OK.  I didn't like the subject matter and didn't particularly like the plot.  Too many key parts were told in dialogue instead of you actually seeing the scenes.  Cinematography wasn't nothing special.  Music score was good.  I rate it a 7.5 out of 10...

What's the problem with the subject matter?

7
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Rate The Last Movie You Saw
« on: March 14, 2019, 01:56:12 PM »
How do YOU feel?

Well, I feel like “ I hated this movie.  Everything about it.”, hence my question!

8
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Rate The Last Movie You Saw
« on: March 14, 2019, 12:51:25 PM »
The Fallen Idol (1948)  I hated this movie.  Everything about it.  5 out of 10...

Soooo... how do you feel when you watch a 1/10?  ???

9
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Rate The Last Movie You Saw
« on: March 14, 2019, 06:38:16 AM »
The Witch (2015) - 8/10
What's happening with american horror films these days? After decades of nothingness, a new generation of talented first time directors is killing it.

10
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Shutter Island (2010)
« on: March 12, 2019, 03:37:16 PM »
Actually, the other way round. It gets worse. I dropped it to 3/10

THE good idea of the movie was to make it NOT like a twist ending film? Really not?

Well yeah. For me at least, while the first viewing is about the puzzle/mystery, the second viewing is all about the emotion. Now, is it one of the best Scorsese movies? No. I disagree but can understand a 5/10 rating, 3/10 seems overkill to me and I don’t think you’ll stand by this rating a month from now (not that it would matter too much, i’ll give you that).

11
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: The 15:17 to Paris (2018?)
« on: March 11, 2019, 07:43:29 AM »
Some of the acting and dialogue is comparable to The Room.

The most compelling argument for a recent Eastwood movie i’ve Ever read. I now want to watch 15:17.

12
Now it seems Steven is saying he never wanted to start a campaign and that the whole outrage was based on fake quotes.

13
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Rate The Last Movie You Saw
« on: March 11, 2019, 12:39:53 AM »
2. Crash (2004) 6.5/10

This is the piece of shmlatz won Best Picture, and that n_l is in love with?

One good thing I can say about it is that the acting is mostly spectacular up and down the cast.

Hey, you cannot expect from every single Best Pic to be half as good as The Patriot!

14
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: The 15:17 to Paris (2018?)
« on: March 10, 2019, 11:59:31 PM »
So culture doesn't matter? All cultures are equal? The only reason the Nazi's were wrong is because they lost?

Of course not, to each of these questions. You perfectly know that none of that is remotely close to what I said and that nothing I said could lead to such inepties. I didn't criticize or compare "american culture" and "french culture". You’re smarter than that, so please rephrase if you think you have something interesting to say.

Stick to the technical aspects of filmmaking, please. When you try to pose as a thinker it's embarrassing.

Of course I won’t. The good thing about “the French exception” is that it explains us why the worst French thinker will always be much more interesting and accurate than the best american one  >:D

Just to reframe the debate in case you’ll again try to make us believe you didn’t understand what I said: the problem with “american exceptionalism” isn’t “american”, but “exceptionalism”. Of course. I cannot believe I need to write these words. You can explain how you love America and its culture (I probably do love them more than you do) as long as you want, of course, but when you’re trying to defend the word “exceptionalism”, you’re the nazi, Mr Godwin. OF COURSE. You don't need to pose as a thinker to get these simple facts.



TLDR: OF COURSE NOT   :-*



15
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Rate The Last Movie You Saw
« on: March 08, 2019, 10:07:42 AM »
and also the greatest psycho-bitch ever imagined (or WAS she imagined?).

If she wasn't, Drink will probably "bump into her" sooner or later.

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