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Messages - Father Groggy

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For a Few Dollars More / Re: Indio in Jail
« on: February 16, 2014, 08:26:41 PM »
As mentioned elsewhere, I wondered why Indio would just be sentenced to prison while Tuco was sentenced to for a hanging.

There were many arguments about different capital punishment laws in different areas.  Maybe after 18 months they finally decided to execute Indio and a breakout was necessary.

But I like the earlier theory about Indio wanting to stay in prison to gain the carpenter's trust.    Still one has to ask at what point did Indio realize that the carpenter had a secret worth knowing?  I'm guessing the carpenter didn't say anything right away.  And if that was the reason, wouldn't another gangmember have to know?  When Indio told his "parable", nobody seemed to know anything.

On a side note, have you ever wondered why the carpenter was in prison?  He knew he created the safe disguised as furniture.  It sounded the idea of stealing money stayed with him.  Do you think he may have attempted a robbery?

For a Few Dollars More / Re: What happened to Sancho Perez?
« on: February 16, 2014, 08:05:31 PM »
This question has been asked many times.  After breaking Sancho out of prison, he is only seen briefly in two non-speaking moments as far as I can recall.  1.  When robbing the El Paso bank, I think Sancho is the one in the wagon wearing a hood.  2.  After Indio kills Cuchilio and puts on an act, there is a shot of Sancho with a puzzled expression.

Maybe Sancho was indeed killed as described earlier.  But none of the guys killed in that scene look like Sancho to me.  In my imagination, Sancho knew he would not beat Manco or Mortimer in a shootout nor would he get any money.  So he fled the scene.  Maybe Manco's problem with adding was a reference to both Sancho and Groggy.  Manco either understood this or saw Sancho sneak off, so he factored that into his "adding".

If this theory is flawed, I welcome any counter-points.

For a Few Dollars More / Alternate Scenes I'd Like To See
« on: September 02, 2009, 11:51:04 AM »
 :D  I have watched FAFDM many many times and never get tired of it.  But lately, I have been having strange thoughts.  Here are some deviations in the movie I would like to see.  These are in no particular order.

1.   I would have like to see the train at Tucumcari come to an emergency stop just a few feet further down the track.  Then I would like to see how Colonel Mortimer gets his horse off the train without that convenient ramp.

2.   After Manco throw the underwear down at Senior Ramirez saying "I don't wear them", we see him undressing in his room.  Underneath his pants, he is wearing nylons and a garter belt.

3.   I would like to have seen the Chinese guy show infinite patience changing direction.  Then I would like to see how many times Manco and Mortimer say "Take it to the station" and "Take it back" before something else happens.

4.   Indio to Cuchillio:   Whose knife is that?
      Cuchilio:  It's mine.
      Indio:  And it's not where it should be, is it?
      Cuchilio:  I didn't do it Indio.  I swear I didn't!
      Indio:  That's very difficult to prove now, isn't it?
      Cuchilio:  Hang on.  I'll go get my fingerprint kit and then...

      BANG!  Indio shoots him.

Is there anything you would like to add to list?  Or do you have any general comments?  Your alternate scene could be something comical or something totally serious like mine above.


I sometimes wonder about the above.  I imagine all the cemetaries in the area would have caretakers that kept records of all the graves they had.  With a little research of all the cemetaries in the general area, he might have been able to find one that had an Arch Stanton.

The only question would have been to find a way to ditch Tuco.  Perhaps early on, Blondie was too weak from the beating to make a move.  By the time he regained his strength,  he and Tuco encountered the Union army spoling any opportunity for the time being.

Of course, I could be wrong about cemetaries in those days keeping records.

Does anybody have any theories or opinions about this?

A Fistful of Dollars / Re: What If....?
« on: August 23, 2009, 09:43:05 AM »
Now that I think about it, the part of Tuco and Silvantino forming a truce does have some flaws.  I admit I was making this up as I was going along and was pressed for time at the end.  Allow me to rewrite the Tuco segment.


Tuco openly stares at the "Adios Amigo" guy with a puzzled expression.

He gets picked on by the Baxter men  just like Joe.  He yells back in Spanish but does not retaliate since he is not at an advantage. 

Silvanto invites him in to the saloon.  Tuco helps himself to food and drink without offering to pay.  Tuco asks how much.  Silvantino quotes price of the dinner.  Tuco point gun at him and asks again "How much?".  Silvantino explains he does not have much because since the Rojos and Baxters took over the town he does not get much business.  Tuco of course does not care.  But before the robbery can be completed, someone appears at the door.

It is one of the Rojo's men inviting Tuco over to see the Rojos.  Don Miguel welcomes Tuco and expresses his sympathy as to how rudely the Baxter men have treeated him,  DM then gives Tuco an obviously slanted version of the Rojo/Baxter feud.  He offers Tuco to work for him and promises him a lot of money.  All he has to do is kill the men who bullied him.  Still angry at the way he was treated, Tuco accepts.  Tuco is taken to his accomodations, a much smaller room than the one Joe was offered.

Don Miguel then explains to Estaban that  he recognized Tuco from wanted posters.  He is a wanted criminal and and an excellent gunslinger.  But most of his crimes have been petty and he knows that Tuco has a gullible side and can be used.

The next day Tuco ambushes and kills the Baxten as stated before.

This fits your storyline about Tuco joining up with the Rojos.  Maybe we can expand on that storyline.

As for Angel Eyes, the apology was insincere.  AE was just trying to get information out of Silvantino.  I have a feeling that AE can feign friendliness when it suits him before showing his true colors.  He may have been relatively nice when Baker hired him to Kill Stevens.  And he was not particularly nasty to to old lady in the stagecoach watching the hanging.

Again, I welcome any rewrites of flawed scenes or to continue on to the next scenes.

A Fistful of Dollars / Re: What If....?
« on: August 21, 2009, 01:00:02 PM »
Thanks for all your comments.    Those were good  ideas.  Any more out there?

My original vision was to see how each character would react in some of the same scenes and take it from there.  I don't know if I would have the skils to write a whole story.  But here is how it might go up to the point when our "here' gets back at the Baxter men for picking on him.

I assume all three would act the same at the well.  They would just watch what's going on and do nothing.  What's happens when they go to town?


No reaction at all to the "Adios Amigo" man.  Nothing to do with his objective.

He would not have much patience with the abuse of the Baxter men.  He would return fire and shoot to kill right on the spot.  Only the men shooting at him will die so there would be no mistake on the number of coffins.

AE ingores Mr. Baxter's claim of being sherriff.  Silvantino witnesses the exchange and is not so welcome to let him into the saloon.  But AE forces his way in and demands whiskey and a meal.  After a while he calms down and apoligizes for being so unfriendly.  AE pays Silvantino from money collected on a recent hit and tips extra to gain his trust.  It works and Silvanto tells AE the story of the Rojo/Baxter feud.


He looks at the "Adios Amigo" guy with mild curiosity and rides on.

Mortimer shows patience at the Baxter abuse just like Joe and befriends Silvantino.  Mortimer pays Silvantino for his dinner with money collected from a recent bounty while listening to the tale of the Baxter/Rojo feud.  After getting a better look at the Baxter house on the balcony, he remembers that several of the Baxter men are wanted in the States and each has a considerable bounty.

He steps into the street and stares at the Baxter men from a distance.  The Baxter men reach for their guns.  But the Colonel is too far for them.  He shoots the Baxter men with his special gun with the long range and immediately heads towards the Rojos.


Tuco openly stares at the "Adios Amigo" guy with a puzzled expression.

He gets picked on by the Baxter men  just like Joe.  He yells back in Spanish but does not retaliate since he is not at an advantage. 

Silvanto invites him in to the saloon.  Tuco helps himself to food and drink without offering to pay.  Tuco asks how much.  Silvantino quotes price of the dinner.  Tuco point gun at him and asks again "How much?".  Silvantino gives Tuco what he has in register which is a paltry sum.  He then explains why to Tuco by telling the tale of the Baxter/Rojo feud and how nobody comes there anymore.

As a man who once lived in poverty himself, Tuco and Silvantino reach a truce of source and he lets Tuco spend the night.

Early the next morning, the Baxter men come out.  Sneaking around the corner, Tuco yells "Ho!" and kills the four Baxter men who shot at him the night before plus another who tried to fire.  As they fell to the ground, Tuco says "You all made a nice loud noise, amigos".

Tuco then head to the Rojos before anything else can happen.

Well that's it!.  You are welcome to provide alternate versions of this scenes.  Or proceed to the next scene with your version of what happens next.

A Fistful of Dollars / What If....?
« on: August 13, 2009, 09:09:10 AM »
OK, let's have some fun!  What if it was Tuco, Colonel Mortimer or Angel Eyes who had been the one who came to San Miguel instead of "Joe"?

Let's put one of those characters at the well watching Jesus trying to sneak in and see Marisol.  Would they have acted differently? 

After that what would happen when they came into town and got bullied by the Baxter men.  How would the story have veered after our "hero" met up with all the Rojos, Baxters and Silvantino the bartender?

I imagine we would get a whole new story!  I'd love to read what all you faithful Sergio Leone experts would have to say.  This might create some fascinating discussions.  Anybody creative out there?

For a Few Dollars More / Re: Why Was Indio Sent To Prison?
« on: August 05, 2009, 05:34:25 AM »
That is correct.  I figured they were one and the same.

For a Few Dollars More / Re: Why Was Indio Sent To Prison?
« on: August 04, 2009, 07:26:36 AM »

I had another thought.  Perhaps the character played by Lorenzo Robeldo (Tomaso per Wikipedia) had something to do with it.  Because of him, Indio was sent to prison and that led to Indiio killing him and his family for revenge.

We don't know what happened there either.   Was Tomaso a lawman or bounty hounter who captured but chose not to kill Indio?  Or was Tomaso a key witness at Indio's trial and his testimony could only convict Indio of something not warranting the death penalty.

If you are interested, I have a beat up copy of the novelization of the movie I bought at a used book store several years ago.  The novel had a strange outlook.  They claimed that the reason they did not hang Indio was because the local town was afraid to.  Indio and his gang so evil and horrible, that if they were to have a public hanging, that would create an opportunity for the gang to mount a rescue.  And they would kill everybody in sight in retribution.

I always thought was a bit overdramatic and not realistic.  But I thought I would throw that out there for discussion and opinions too.

For a Few Dollars More / Why Was Indio Sent To Prison?
« on: August 03, 2009, 06:58:42 AM »
I had a curious thought about this movie recently.  Have you ever wondered what crime Indio was convicted off to sentence him to prison in the first place?  It can be argued that Indio was a more dangerous criminal than Tuco.  Yet when Tuco gets arrested, he is sentenced to be hanged.  Why not Indio?   

Perhaps although Indio had already committed several heinous crimes, the law could only convict him of something not warranting the death penalty.  Yet when he escaped, the reward for him was much higher than usual.

I am new here and have been a fan of Sergio's films for a long time.  I enjoy reading your posts and finding new things to talk about.  I thought this would make an interesting discussion.

Do you have any thoughts on this subject?

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