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March 18, 2019, 02:24:23 PM
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Messages - drinkanddestroy

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1
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: High Sierra (1941)
« on: Today at 02:01:41 PM »
No, Joan Leslie turns out to be not so good, just another manipulator who uses her looks and her innocent act to get what she wants from a man before throwing him away. Ida Lupino, on the other hand, is the bad girl with a heart of gold. If she and Bogie could get away together they could be happy but he doesn't see it in time. Bogie is doomed for falling for the false values in mainstream 40s cinema.

That may be true.

But the fact is that whichever guy is with Joan Leslie will be able to settle down into a quiet life, while whichever guy is with Ida Lupino will spend his life on the run.

View it any way you want, but point is that love story is integral to the story of Roy Earle, and this is not an instance of a movie throwing in a useless romantic angle.

2
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Orson Welles
« on: Today at 01:58:23 PM »
RE: Welles being influential: After Citizen Kane, did he do that much that was very influential, and that wasn't already in Citizen Kane?

3
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Orson Welles
« on: Yesterday at 11:59:57 PM »
I don’t think anybody actually loves it. Everybody finds it excruciating. Yet, there are plenty of good to great things in it by one of the most talented filmmakers ever (that title, in 2019, isn’t an opinion anymore, it’s a fact).


Nobody loves it? Everybody finds it excruciating?

4 out of 4 stars https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-other-side-of-the-wind-2018

One of the Best Films of 2018 https://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/sight-sound-magazine/comment/bradlands/other-side-wind-orson-welles-impossible-film

4 out of 5 stars https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-reviews/other-side-of-the-wind-movie-review-746393/

A-Minus http://homepages.sover.net/~ozus/othersideofthewind.html

4 out of 5 stars https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/31/the-other-side-of-the-wind-review-lost-orson-welles-epic-satire




4
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Orson Welles
« on: Yesterday at 11:52:32 PM »
I don’t think anybody actually loves it. Everybody finds it excruciating. Yet, there are plenty of good to great things in it by one of the most talented filmmakers ever (that title, in 2019, isn’t an opinion anymore, it’s a fact).

Like it’s often the case, I find it also easier to spot why a guy is a genius and how he achieved genius results by watching his failed attempts. Because the craft is more visible. The lack of polish makes the essence of his work more discernable. That being said I yet have to find the courage to watch the final hour.

I don't give a damn how "talented" a filmmaker is, or how much of a "genius" he is. I like to watch good movies and I hate to watch bad movies. And most of what Welles made was shit or average. I don't care how much he coulda woulda shoulda done. I care about how much pleasure, as a movie fan, he gives me. And Welles didn't give me much pleasure beyond Citizen Kane.

(Note: This post is referring to his directed movies. As an actor, he did have some very good performances in other filmmakers' movies.)

I haven't seen his Shakespeare films. But I have seen The Magnificent Ambersons, and I think it is crap. Not a masterpiece screwed up by the studio, but a movie that is crap and never had any potential to be anything other than crap. The Lady from Shanghai is excruciating. Yeah yeah, I know all about the famous ending in the house of mirrors. Whoopdy do. The rest of the movie is crap.

The Stranger is decent, as is F for Fake. The Immortal Story is not good. Touch of Evil is crap besides the first scene and last scene. Mr. Arkadin is excruciating. Am I supposed to enjoy an awful movie just because Welles was such a genius that he knew how to turn a camera diagonally when the mere mortal filmmakers were holding it straight?  ::)

Maybe Welles had more talent and genius than every other filmmaker who ever lived. Heck, maybe so do I. But I haven't made shit, so I'm no benefit to cinema. Name me Welles and 99 other filmmakers who ever lived, and odds are I'll tell you the other 99 gave me more pleasure than Welles did. Which means they have more value to me as a filmmaker than Welles did.

Movies are about both art and entertainment. We can have endless debates about whether the two are mutually exclusive or identical or the relative importance of each and how much they are intertwined, etc. But without entertainment, a film/filmmaker has no value. And for me, Welles produced minimal entertainment.

---

The way people talk about Welles reminds me of Mickey Mantle. Mantle was a very famous baseball player from the 1950's and 1960's. He suffered numerous devastating injuries, so he missed lots of games, and the games in which he did play, he was often hurt. BY the end of his career, it was sad to watch him, he could barely move due to his injuries. So a big part of the Mickey Mantle Story is what could have been.

But injuries or not, Mantle indeed was one of the greatest baseball players ever! (I won't go into the statistics cuz you Europeans don't know or care about that stuff, but) the fact is that he indeed was one of the all-time greats. Without the injuries, he could have been even better! Maybe without the injuries he could have been one of the 5 greatest players ever - but even with the injuries he was one of the 10 or 20 greatest ever. So it's ok to talk about what "could have been." Because his output indeed was great.

But Welles's output was crap. When a guy had great output, you can talk about how much greater he could have been. But when a guy's output was shit, I'm sick and tired of hearing about him. Talent and genius and potential don't mean jack. Output is what matters. And any filmmaker who made more than one great movie already has a better output than Welles.
--

I enjoyed Netflix's documentary about the making of The Other Side of the Wind (it's called They'll Love Me When I'm Dead) far more than I enjoyed The Other Side of the Wind.

5
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: High Sierra (1941)
« on: Yesterday at 03:50:29 PM »
8/10

Bogie is really good. I like his haircut.

Love story is not bad here, because it is not done for its own sake; it's part of the story of Roy Earle. Joan Leslie is the sweet, innocent girl, representing Earle's chance at turning over a new leaf, going into a new legitimate life. Ida Lupino is the bad girl, dime-a-dance joint, representing the dark side of life. Bogie tries to go with the innocent one but fails, representing his fate. The "good" world rejects him, the "bad" world pursues him. He is doomed.

6
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: In Memoriam
« on: Yesterday at 07:38:38 AM »
ACTOR RICHARD ERDMAN 1925-2019) Cry Danger, Twilight Zone, didn't know he was still alive.

Sad to hear.

I liked him. He was also in STALAG 17.

R.I.P.

7
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: High Sierra (1941)
« on: Yesterday at 12:00:50 AM »
Eddie Muller's intro https://youtu.be/7xL3Bj5eurI

Eddie Muller's outro https://youtu.be/4wIADN5617w

8
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Orson Welles
« on: March 14, 2019, 03:18:16 PM »
I just finished The Other Side of the Wind. It took several excruciating sessions to get through this piece of shit.

I guess those people who consider Welles to be a genius whose every word contains hidden gems of mysticism we mere mortals cannot understand, and who are fascinated with his life and the autobiographical aspects of the movie, either truly love it or focre themselves to. I couldn't stand it.

The only good thing I can say about this is a hilarious Edmond O'Brien.

9
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Rate The Last Movie You Saw
« on: March 14, 2019, 02:05:39 PM »
It is not a very good movie. The Third Man and Odd Man Out are overrated as well.

10
For a Few Dollars More / Re: New 4K Restoration Blu-Ray (March 2019)
« on: March 13, 2019, 11:02:58 AM »
Of course, but I want everybody on this world to be able to see the light ...

you purchasing another disc wouldn't help anyone see the light

11
For a Few Dollars More / Re: New 4K Restoration Blu-Ray (March 2019)
« on: March 13, 2019, 07:21:24 AM »
Of course it should, but I would not buy a new disc only to get that scene complete. But I would immediately buy OUTW without the rising scene, or the theatrical Italian version of GBU.

Re: OUATITW:

As soon as the opening shootout happens, just click “next chapter.” Magic! Rising scene is gone.

12
For a Few Dollars More / Re: New 4K Restoration Blu-Ray (March 2019)
« on: March 12, 2019, 03:33:37 PM »
Working on a part 2 that looks at the many different cuts of the beating scene...it's very complicated! Ideally I can get it out before the release date so that people can see what the "correct" version is. Even the Italian Blu is missing a few seconds in the beating scene...

The last time the beating scene was released completely uncut in North America was in 1982, the U.S. laserdisc. I wonder what happened to THAT print... 15 years later they were combining cut U.S. prints with incomplete Italian prints and making all sorts of mistakes. They had an uncut English print in their possession back in 1982...where did it go?

regarding the beating scene: this video of the "full length beating scene" courtesy of LeoneNut https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCQp9rnsuEk

further discussion here http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=11528.msg161986#msg161986

13
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: The 15:17 to Paris (2018?)
« on: March 11, 2019, 03:39:02 PM »
I forgive it a bit because I'm a big Welles fan and it's definitely a unique, fascinating experiment. But it's absolutely exhausting to watch.

it seems to me that your (for some mysterious reason) being a big Welles fan is also affecting your opinion of The Other Side of the Wind, just as my being a big Eastwood fan may have affected my rating for The 15:17 to Paris.

And btw, being a Clint Eastwood fan makes much more sense than being a Welles fan  :P

14
Off-Topic Discussion / Re: The 15:17 to Paris (2018?)
« on: March 11, 2019, 12:27:00 PM »
Man... 6/10? Really? That's more offensive than DJ's 7 for Taxi Driver!

Any rating higher than a 2 for this movie is just plain wrong. It's one of the worst mainstream released dramas I've ever seen. Some of the acting and dialogue is comparable to The Room.

I will readily admit to the fact that as I am a big fan of Eastwoood movies, my rating may have been subconsciously biased upward; I thought afterward about lowering it, but decided not to bother. For me 6/10 is a mediocre rating, but I have no quarrel with someone giving this movie a lower rating, even a significantly lower rating.

I guess this is Eastwood's version of cinéma-vérité. I am no fan of cinéma-vérité. From anyone. I'm in middle of watching The Other Side of the Wind and finding it excruciating.

15
For a Few Dollars More / Re: New 4K Restoration Blu-Ray (March 2019)
« on: March 10, 2019, 03:58:48 PM »
I'm sorry but this seems a bit obsessive.

hurrah for obsessive Leone fans  :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

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