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Messages - stanton

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Before OUTIW, Bronson was pretty well known in USA with Magnificent Seven, Great Escape, and Dirty Dozen being big hits.  Europeans always have seemed to embrace the Leone films and Morricone more than Americans.

But these were all minor roles, others were the stars of these films. He became a star in Europe in the late 60s, and only a few years later also in the USA with the Michael Winner films.


Rental figures are supplied by the film distributor, I.e. United Artists.
UA was pissed at Eastwood who demanded fifteen percent of the North American gross to appear in GBU.
By underreportong the actual take they hoped avoid a big payout.

But if this is true, then maybe the figures for the other films are also not true, are also too low.

And checking Wikipedia the grosses of other films I had listed from the Variety list are also much higher. And UA had much, much bigger hits with the Bond films, which also were comparatively more successful in Europe than in the USA.


Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Sight & Sound Polls 2022
« on: January 17, 2023, 05:05:10 PM »
Only 18? That's ridiculous ... why not 118? Which would be understandable ...

... but this happens if you things can't buy.

General Discussion / Re: Box office of Leone
« on: January 16, 2023, 08:35:40 AM »
I believe that the premier was in Rome in December 1966. English language version was likely lower priority.

The Dollar trilogy came to the USA in 1967, all 3 in that year.
FoD in January, FaFDM in May and GBU in December.

General Discussion / Re: Box office of Leone
« on: January 16, 2023, 05:34:50 AM »
Of course, then I can compare.

From the Variety data Eastwood's Hang em High, a good but far less attractive film, had more success than Leone, and later high Plain's Drifter also.

General Discussion / Re: Box office of Leone
« on: January 16, 2023, 04:05:58 AM »
Yes, I was only asking for the US data.

It seems the $ income they used is higher than that from the Variety list.

General Discussion / Re: Box office of Leone
« on: January 16, 2023, 03:00:39 AM »
USA (available figures on the same website. Those figures are said as "approximative" as they aren't official data but calculated the same way Stanton did with his figures):

Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo          21 271 000 (#11 that year)
Per un pugno di Dollari                15 591 000 (#20 that year)
Per qualche dollaro in piu             13 761 000 (#20 that year)
C' era una volta il West                4 190 000 (#39 that year)
Il mio nome e Nessuno                3 081 000 (#31 that year)
Once upon a Time in America       1 538 000 (#107 that year)

So yeah, of course a box office success on the US market is more profitable than a box office success in France or Germany, but not than in France AND Germany. "The real money" is everywhere as long as there is money.

For "but not than in France AND Germany" you mean "than" or "then"? "Then" I assume ...

And the figures here are also admissions calculated for the BO in $?

The BO from a Variety list for the Leone westerns (in mio):

GBU : 6,11
FaFDM : 4,35
FoD : 4,25

The others are below 4 mio, and for that not listed.

Some contemporary US westerns from that list:

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid : 45,95
Billy JacK : 32,5 (hard to believe)
Jeremiah Johnson : 21,9
Little Big Man : 15
True Grit : 14,25
Cat Ballou : 9,3
The Professionals : 8,8
High Plains Drifter ; 7,9
Hang em High : 6,78
El Dorado : 6
The War Wagon : 5,93
Hombre : 5,6
Nevada Smith : 5,5
The Wild Bunch : 5,3
2 Mules for Sister Sara : 4,64
5 Card Stud : 4,25
The Undefeated : 4

Inflation adjustment would already make a difference for the time span of these films. In another inflation adjusted Variety list 1966 films are calculated for the inflation with a 2,5 factor and 1972 films with 1,5.

General Discussion / Re: Box office of Leone
« on: January 12, 2023, 08:10:57 AM »
I guess this are the box office data from the year they were released? Or is in an all times box office, that keeps growing up with each re-release?

Also the french wikipedia states 8.9 millions of admissions for OUATITW in Italy (not a huge difference but still a notable one). The source is that website: (which gives also numbers for Germany and France for that movie).

I used data from a book someone else had, and here's a list in Lira for SWs:

Some of my data are already different from that list, others were the same, and of course there are many other factors which are not secured (like the way I calculated the average ticket prices), but my list gives an overview, and a much better one than only looking at the mere Lira data.

General Discussion / Re: Box office of Leone
« on: January 12, 2023, 08:02:41 AM »
And the admissions (in thousands) for Leone in Germany:

Per un pugno di Dollari              2.302
Per qualche dollaro in piu          3.072
Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo       1.164

C' era una volta il West           13.018
Giu la testa                                   ?
Il mio nome e Nessuno             6.287

Once upon a Time in America    2.320

No data for DYS so far, but pretty sure under 2 mio.

General Discussion / Box office of Leone
« on: January 12, 2023, 07:49:03 AM »
Here's a thread for all the box office data for the Leone films which are available.

I start with Italy.

I created many years ago a list of the most successful SWs.
For that I had transferred the available box-office data with the aid of average ticket prices into admission numbers, the only accurate way to compare films which were released in different years. Especially as in Italy the inflation was rather galopping in these years.

The estimated admissions (in thousands and Lira in millions) of Leone's westerns:

Title                                          Admissions      Lira

Per qualche dollaro in piu      *   14.672   *   3.492
Per un pugno di Dollari          *  14.269   *   3.182
Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo    *   12.071   *   3.211
C' era una volta il West          *   8.077   *   2.504
Il mio nome e Nessuno           *   8.008   *   3.620
Giu la testa                             *   6.224   *   2.465

For a Few Dollars More / Re: FAFDM Popularity in Spain
« on: January 12, 2023, 07:22:30 AM »
Yes, and FoD too


It is true until OuTW, but Giu la testa is the weakest of his westerns, and OuTA has several flaws.

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Rate The Last Movie You Saw
« on: January 11, 2023, 07:16:41 AM »
L'appartement (1996) - 5/10. Remember when some people thought this was a big deal? Now all I can see is a badly lit, badly edited film. Could we lose half of the flashbacks, please? OK, this is when Monica Bellucci's was in her prime, so it's not a total loss.

I think it's better. I liked it a lot last year.

His last four films flopped in America.
That's where the real money was and where Sergio most wanted success - thus cast with American stars.
Germany, France.... nice but not America

You overestimate the USA.

And none of Leone's films had an exceptional success there compared to Europe.
The Dollar Trilogy made a lot of money for UA, but mostly because they bought the rights for only a few Dollars. Checking the figures I have for the USA the Dollar Trilogy had success in the USA, but were far, far away from the real big successes. Even for westerns alone they did not belong to the biggest sellers of those years, and film like True Grit, The Professionals, Little Big Man and especially Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid made much more money in the US.


One only has to look at the box-office receipts of his Eastwood less films.

But in Germany and France (and maybe other European countries) OuTW was much, much more successful than the Dollar Trilogy. In Germany OuTW sold over 13 mio tickets, the 3 with Eastwood together about 6,1 mio.
And OuTA sold with 2,3 mio much more than GBU (with only 1,15 mio).

So it's not that easy.

Ohh, and My Name Is Nobody sold ca 6,3 mio.

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