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1  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In America / Re:How could it possibly be a dream? on: June 04, 2004, 11:29:53 AM
I think the "How could Noodles had dreamed all the TV's, phone booths etc."-comment quite...well, stupid.....
stupid, huh???
well, you know, it is so stupid that people have been discussing about it for four pages now  Roll Eyes

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Does that mean that you can't never predict the future in the films because "you can't know what will happen"? That's crap, in films you are able to show these things to the viewers. How else could you show the future in films?
one thing is when you are setting a story in the future from the point of view of the present, and you have to imagine the future.
In this case your image of the future cannot be contradicted, because nobody knows what the future will be like (that's science fiction).

one completely different thing is when you set a story in the present from the pov of the past, of someone who has to imagine what the present will be like. in this case either you are able to dream of the present as it really is (like in ouatia - IF it is a dream), or you imagine it different.

can you see the difference?

being able to live in the thirties and suddenly dreaming of the sixties as they really are (IF this is a dream) can make people wonder whether it makes sense or not, whereas nobody would do the same (unless he's nuts) had the film been set in the present, with a character who has the imagine the future (why should anybody discuss about credibility of a science fiction movie?).
2  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In America / Re:Shot in Venice on: March 21, 2004, 07:36:32 AM
Guybrush, maybe you know the answer to this.  The scene where Noodles takes Deborah out to dinner was shot in a hotel in Venice - in the end credits they mention the Groupa Loga or something like that.  I did a google search on them this weekend and this group owns the Hotel Gritti.

But Noodles and Deborah have a table by a window, and out the window there's a pier going out into foggy water.  The water looks a lot more like the Lagoon than the Grand Canal, that's not the Hotel Gritti is it?  Was that scene shot at the Cipriani?  

Maybe the cast just stayed at the Gritti for cheap, so the producers gave them a nice credit?  Undecided

hi everybody, sorry for not answering before...  Wink

General Sibley, the scene you are writing about was shot in the little isle of Lido, nearby Venice, the same venue where the Venice film festival takes place every year in September.
The restaurant room is located in the (Grand) Hotel Excelsior, whereas the beach where the next scene was shot is just in front of that same hotel. The white tents you can see in the background are still there... and are used every summer by the people coming in from Venice to enjoy the seaside (pls just forgive my boasting for a bit when I say I'm one of them  Cheesy).

So Guy, sorry to correct you, but that beach has nothing to do with New Jersey... if it had, then I would have been in New Jersey before; but I think I would remember that  Smiley

Actually the hotels Cipriani and Gritti -the ones other users were talking about- are in the very center of Venice, along the Grand Canal, but they have nothing to do either with the location where that scene was shot.

To get to the isle of Lido it gets 10 minute by boat from the centre of Venice.

Glad to be helpful, and talk about my hometown once in a while...  Grin
3  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In America / Re:Max' Elaborate Cunning Job (MECJ) on: January 29, 2004, 07:19:33 AM
Is it possible that the whole idea about robbing the federal bank is a scheme from the beginning - with the sole purpose of getting rid of Noodles (and the others)? That Max never intended to do it for real?

The first time he mentions it, is after the knowledge that
a) Prohibition is over.
b) Noodles is dead weight in the forecoming "armchair" and "businessmobster" period.
c) Max needs to move on.
maybe I'm naive, but honestly don't think this was Max's intention from the beginning. Max didn't seem very caring about the others, but his affection for Noodles seemed genuine to me at least until he began to suspect that Noodles was about to trick them all and save their lives

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After all, it's Max's chick that suggests to Noodles that he should turn them in for running booze. Maybe Max set her up to that, knowing that Noodles would take the bait. That's why he punches him before the job - making sure that Noodles didn't come.
I don't think Carol was ever aware of the plot made up by Max. Had she been informed, she would have known that Max somehow survived the event and would have informed Noodles accordingly when he paid a visit to her in the sixties

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He obviously had a deal with the police, making sure that the rest were killed, and that an irrecognizable body was at the scene. And that's evidently why there's no money in the locker. Max' preparation has been long and careful.
I can subscribe to that  Wink

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Hence: The whole bank-idea was NOT an obsession of Max', it was just something that sounded crazy enough for Noodles to believe that the only way out would be to turn them in - and crazy enough for him to believe that Max' chick would really suggest this. Noodles had to be convinced that the job was excactly that: crazy enough to get them killed.

And he took the bait. Maybe Max' hysterical reactions to Noodles' innocent remarks about him being crazy was part of the cunning job as well. He had to SEEM crazy.
IMO Max decided to trick the robbery, cheat the gang and ruin Noodles's life as soon as he understood that Noodles would not join them in and would try to save his friends' lives by informing the police.

To cut it short: your hypothesis might as well work  Wink
it's just that I love my 'image' of the movie too much to have it 'spoiled' by different interpretations of the characters: Max seemed crazy because he was crazy, and he could not accept the idea of Noodles being too critical about his plans. IMO, of course...  Smiley  
4  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In America / Re:foreshadowing - the phony death of Max on: January 29, 2004, 04:42:34 AM
do you mean that Max only pretended to jump into the garbage truck in order to make Noodles feel guilty once again?

mmmhhh... I don't buy that  Wink
Do you remember Noodles's reaction in Bailey's big villa after realising Max was still alive?
He acted as if the man in front of him was a complete stranger, as if that man was not the real Max, as if Max had really died thirty years before because of his treachery (that's actually the only sense of guilt Noodles had been growing for decades).

Max felt completely dumpened by Noodles's reaction. Max could not accept that a man whose life he had been spoiling for decades could react the way Noodles did. Max wanted Noodles to erupt in a rage, he wanted Noodles to shoot him. Noodles's lack of any vengeful reaction totally stunned Max, whose state of mind in that particular moment was so similar to disheartedness that he could not reasonably be brought to conceive the trick you describe. Max was well aware that Noodles would not have felt as over-worried or guilty as he had done in that "salt" episode.

As a prove of what I'm saying, do you remember Noodles's reaction after seeing that man, very much like Bailey, appearingly jumping into the garbage truck?
I would say Noodles's face was rather unexpressive, he did not look like he was so worried about the thing...
5  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In America / Re:Overhead Shot Through the Bed Canopy on: January 15, 2004, 06:50:11 AM
...I think Dogville's been showing in the US but I remember they had a hard time selling it there  - it was interpreted by many American critics as anti-American...
ok, so I'll run the risk to go OT for a moment and say that Dogville in principle is definitely a huge critic versus a certain american way of thinking, but I would rather say that the message coming through can definitely apply on our side of the Atlantic as well.
And it is not a message of hope and optimisism, quite the contrary actually (very typical of von Trier). Anyway I liked the movie much more than 'Dancing in the dark'.

Going back to the topic (at least partially), yes, that shot from Dogville also reminds me of ouatia now but, shame on me, I did not realise that when I saw it on the screen.
6  General Information / General Discussion / Re:WHERE DO WE COME FROM ? on: January 15, 2004, 03:13:47 AM
One of Hugo Pratt preferred city  Smiley
well, you know, Hugo Pratt moved to Venice when he was 15, he fell in love with the place (who wouldn't ?, hehehe  Wink) and lived here for most of his life since then.

Colonna, by the way Ugo is my name in everyday's life...   Smiley

7  General Information / General Discussion / Re:James ELLROY on: January 12, 2004, 01:45:41 AM
A couple of days ago a local newspaper interwieved Brian De Palma who said he is starting production of Ellroy's 'Black Dahlia'.

As a big fan of Ellroy I read and very much appreciated 'Black Dahlia', maybe even more than L.A. Confidential. So I'm wondering who might play the two main characters.
Any idea from you guys?
8  General Information / General Discussion / Re:THE BEST SERGIO LEONE FILM... on: January 09, 2004, 01:02:22 PM
OUATIA.......
who can ask for anything more?
9  General Information / General Discussion / Re:WHERE DO WE COME FROM ? on: January 09, 2004, 08:20:25 AM
ok, so I'm a spag...
my hometown is venice, italy.
so all of you guys boasting you're living in the most beautiful place in the world, be so kind and tip your hat...  Wink  Grin
10  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In America / Re:No charater to identify with on: January 09, 2004, 06:39:43 AM
sure there is no character to identify with?

with all his flaws and bad behaviours, Noodles still remains the perfect example of the average next guy, who wants so much from life (even if he thinks he just wants the basical things) but gets much less in the end.

Do we like the idea to be found similar to such a character? maybe not.

Aren't we all a little bit like him (without being rapists...)? I do think so.
If you do not identify yourselves at least a little bit with that next guy, you must be living a 100% wonderful life, you must be achieving all your goals bar none, and I envy you so much...

 


11  General Information / General Discussion / Re:Leone Film Survivor on: October 17, 2003, 04:11:37 AM
I'll go again with FFDM.

ehm, actually OUATIA is my favourite movie ever, so you guys who love it as much as I do please help me make it survive till the very final ballot...
12  General Information / General Discussion / Re:Leone Film Survivor on: October 04, 2003, 12:40:41 AM
The point of the thread is to have fun and see what opinions other people have...  But if your not into to that f**k it game over... Embarrassed
...besides my favourite movie is neither GBU nor OUATITW, so let's go on shooting around...

Hey Blondie, no offence intended, but if you don't feel like playing the game why shouldn't you let the others do it?

As for the next killing, I'm quite undecided...
I think I'll go for 'A Few Dollars More'
13  General Information / General Discussion / Re:After" THE END" on: October 03, 2003, 10:49:23 AM
what if leone would have lived, at least as long as clint ?  what would have been the next project on his list ?                  
his next project had already been decided and he had been working on it before passing away: it should have been something on the siege of Leningrad during WW II, again starring Bob DeNiro...
14  General Information / General Discussion / Re:After" THE END" on: October 02, 2003, 10:58:51 AM
cool aaronson. creative enjoyable fiction.   Wink
i like the tie in w/ magnificent 7 best.
after reading  i read again several times.  
thank you,
kerm  Cheesy
...who could imagine that someone would be able to bring 'The usual suspects' (Kayzer Soze) and 'Zorro' (Diego De La Vega) into Sergio's universe?
aaronson, this is not the first time you surprise me, so I guess it won't be the last either...  Grin  Shocked  Grin
15  General Information / General Discussion / Re:Leone Film Survivor on: September 27, 2003, 11:35:02 AM
well, who am I to disagree?
FODynamite is my choice too

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