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1  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In The West / Re: The three stooges on: December 27, 2007, 12:38:03 AM
I think Eli as Jack Elam´s character, Lee as mr. Strode´s and Clint as the twitching knuckle-
cracker would give the best result.

I agree with you, but I think that good "combination" would also be:

Clint as Elam, Eli as Strode (I know that Eli wasn`t bald, but he could play such caracter) and Lee as Muloch.

It would be very interesting to see Clint as lazy gunman who unwillingly need to "do something" about that annoying fly. Smiley
2  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In The West / Re: Duration problem - very important! on: December 27, 2007, 12:22:48 AM
http://www.schnittberichte.com/schnittbericht.php?ID=4208

This site demonstrates the difference between the Italian and International cuts of the film.

Great stuf, buddy. Thank you very much.

Only, it`s pity that site isn`t in english, because I don`t know german, but never mind. The pictures are quite enough.

Once again, thank you very much.
3  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In The West / Re: Duration problem - very important! on: December 26, 2007, 01:47:17 AM
Dave, thank you very much for this informations, buddy! Afro

I cannot comment on your VHS/DVD question without knowing more about the media involved. The difference between a 159 minute version and a 165 minute version of the film on video *could* be a simple matter of format differences if one is PAL (which speeds up the film) and the other NTSC (which correctly replicates a film's run time).

I am not sure if you understand correctly everything that I said (maybe that is my fault - my english is not perfect).

The DVD version that I recently bought is 159 minutes version (so that is the longer version of the two that I possess), and VHS version that I have for years is some 10 minutes shorter.

Although, as you mention the extra shot of Knuckles, there must be something else going on there as well......

Because of that I was surprised. If there were some scenes in longer DVD version, that wasn`t included in shorter VHS version, that wouldn`t be strange. I could expect it. But problem was that in shorter VHS version there is some scenes that wasn`t included in longer DVD version. That`s what confused me, especially because this DVD version is (as it`s written on the cover) "special 2 disc collectors edition", so you could expect that this version is the "full version". But now I know better, because you explaned me some things that I didn`t know.

About 165 min. version - I don`t have it neither on DVD nor VHS. I just said that I found informations in some books and "Microsoft cinemania" that the full version is 165 min. long. I thought that this is the "Italian version", but, like I said, now you explaned me this.

I can just said that, unfortunatelly, there isn`t one ULTIMATE version of the film, that we could call "the full version". Great pity...

Maybe, only solution is to find that "Italian version". If nothing else, at least that is the longer version that exist.

Once again, thank you very much, buddy.
4  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In The West / Re: Commentary track (Cox, Carpenter, Frayling) on: December 25, 2007, 01:11:38 AM
I totally agree with all your comments. Afro

I was and I am very angry, disappointed and dissatisfied with the "commentary track". Angry
5  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In The West / Commentary track (Cox, Carpenter, Frayling) on: December 24, 2007, 03:49:55 AM
When I watched the “commentary track“ I was wery surprised whit the ignorance and lack of ability to observe the obvious things that some “film workers“ and “experts“ show to us through their comments.

I can`t believe that Alex Cox was confused about Morton – Frank and Frank – Jill cave scene (about this we allready talked in some other thread). In the „buchered“ version that scene is very short so I could understand that someone could be confused about it (expecially when watching the film for the first time), but in “full“ version that scene is few minutes long and it is obvious that the bed don`t have curtains and lace decorations and that the bad is hanging from the ceiling. Beside that, Morton says:“I know the woman is HERE“, and Bronson and Robards at Sweet water start to build the station and Robards says:“I know that it wouldn`t be much, but it`s going to be the first thing that she is going to se when she gets back“, and Bronson adds:“If she gets back“. So there is no confusion.

Then I couldn`t believe what John Carpenter said. He was commenting the scene in saloon in which Frank trys to buy the land from Harmonica for $ 5.001. Carpenter was watching the scene and in the moment when Frank was puting the money in his pocket, he said:“I don`t remember that we had blue money in this country“. BLUE MONEY!!!??? What`s wrong with him? It`s obvious that the money is green and if he couldn`t see it in that scene, he could see it in the scene of poker game in the train, when Morton starts to deal 100 dollar bills instead of cards. We clearly see not just that the money is green but that there is a Lincoln picture on it. So I simply couldn`t understand what those two were watching. I mean, they aren`t some “common“ viewers. They are professionals. Directors… How can they make such mistakes and how can`t they see the obvious?

Even Sir Cristopher Fayling make one mistake. When Bronson turns in Robards to the sheriff at the auction, Frayling said “that we don`t know if the Harmonica capture him, or they working together, or something else…“ How can he say that we don`t know that? Of course that we know. Think about it a little bit. They both are against Frank, they both want to protect Jill, Robards even (practically) saved the Bronson`s life when he rescue him from the train where he was captured by the Frank and his man. Then, they together plans and starts to build the station… etc. All of that was before the auction scene. So it is obvious that they work together. Trying to stop Frank from buying McBains farm and stoping Jill from leaving the Sweet water. So what is there to be confused about. I mean, Frayling himself said that Leone wanted to leave audience to think a little bit…

So “experts“ should think a little bit about the scenes that they are watching and about the things that they are saying.

I was angry about the autor of the "commentary track" (I forgot his name) because I couldn`t understand how could he and why did he leave that commentaryes whit so much errors and recorded it to the disc. I mean, this isn`t the edition for someone who watch Leone for the first time. This is for collectors, for Leone`s fans, so he/they should know that we will notice this mistakes. Practically, their stupid comments ruined my good mood for watching it (no offence to anyone).
6  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In The West / Duration problem - very important! on: December 24, 2007, 02:20:06 AM
I am very disappointed and I want to finally clear this mess which annoyes me very much. I hope that you can help me to do that.

This is the problem.

I have the VHS copy of this film for many years (which I recorded when this movie was on TV), but I FINALLY find (because you simply couldn`t find it in my country) and bought the 2 disc special edition of this film. I can`t described how happy I was. But, then it happend. On the cover of the DVD`s is writen that the movie duration is 159 min. When I check this out on the Internet, I find in many places that this version is collectors edition and that is “ORIGINAL FULL VERSION“.

So I thought: there is 3 versions that I know off:
   1. Shortened version that was originally released in America;
   2. Then there is another shortened version but not cut out as much as the American release (this version is about 15 minutes longer then American release - that is the version that I have on VHS);
   3. And the full 159 min. version.

But, then I looked up in some books and in Microsoft Cinemania and there you have another information – FULL LENGHT OF THE MOVIE IS 165 MIN.!

I was furious… At the first I thought that this 6 minutes diference could be the scene in which sheriff`s men beating Bronson and scene in which Fonda gets shaved, but it is not logically, because that scenes were cut out by Leone himself, so it is not possible that they count them as part of the full version. So it must be something else. I wanted to check this out so I started to watch the VHS and DVD version in the same time to compare them and I could`t believe what I saw. At the begining of the film, when Ellam, Strode and Muloch waiting Bronson there is a difference. In allegedly full version of the movie on the DVD, there is TWO cuts of the Muloch when he “cracking“ his fingers, but in the shorter VHS version there is THREE cuts of Muloch doing that. So it`s thurned out that in shorter version THERE IS a scene that DON`T EXIST in "allegedly" collectors edition full version!!!

You may check this for yourself. Surely many of you have that 2 disc collectors edition so look it up. There is the shot of Muloch when he starts to "crack" his fingers (he was shot from the front), then after we saw Strode and Ellam, there is second shot of Muloch "cracking" his fingers (again, from the front), then again that is followed by shots of Strode and Ellam and then we comes to the shot that misses in "full" version - shot of Muloch "cracking" his fingers (for the THIRD time) but now he is not shot from the front but we see his hands and fingers from the above (like the camera is his own eyes). It is like some sort of "close up" on his hands and fingers shot from the above (abreast of his head). After that there is a shot of Strode drinking the water from his hat, shot of Ellam releases the fly from the barrel of his gun and then the fourth shot of Muloch in which he turns off and we see the incoming train. So the whole one shot (THE THIRD SHOT) of Muloch (which is included in the shortened version that I possess) misses in the "full" version!

Like I allready said I was furios and I stop compareing the two versions because I was “affraid“ that I would find something else that exist in shorter but not in "full" version.

So I ask for your help my friends. Does anyone knows anything about this, or, better say, does anyone knows the exact and accurate duration of this film? To clear this once and for all! Thank you all in advance.
7  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In The West / Re: Out of sequence scenes on: December 19, 2007, 02:38:57 AM
cusser is right... although some people, upon explaination still have a problem with it... i really don't get what the problem is... Frank goes to "take care of the woman himself" and tells morton to meet him at the navajo cliffs... at the cliffs morton tells frank there will be no more useless killings and that he knows the girl is there... frank tells him if he wants to pay for the land he will take care of it... intercut with harmonica and cheyenne building the town... then to frank and jill in bed obviously at the cliffs... the next scene is at the auction... THERE IS NO CONTINUITY PROBLEM!

Good explanation, buddy.

I agree with Groggy. There is no continuity era's whatsoever in OUATITW. Sure, some aspects of the film are not shown on screen, such as the train massacre resulting in Cheyenne getting shot. We did not see what happened, but we basically know. That's what makes the film even greater than it is. Leone leaves some things up for interpretation, and that's what makes talking about this film so fun.

If he show us that scene ("train massacre" and Cheyenne getting shot), than the ending wouldn`t be so great and powerfull (and, may I say - unholywoodish) as it is, expecially for the first watching.
I agree with you my friend - "that's what makes talking about this film so fun".
8  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In America / Re: "Modern talking" on: December 19, 2007, 01:28:05 AM
I really don't know whether I should laugh or cry. Maybe the finest piece of art combined with maybe the purest piece of shit can cause that.

 Grin Grin Grin Great comment, buddy. Afro
9  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In America / Re: Scene that blew my mind on: December 18, 2007, 06:48:15 AM
Great scene! Great film!
10  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In America / Re: "Modern talking" on: December 18, 2007, 06:36:33 AM
Brother Louie, Louie, Louie...

Don't know what to think of this. I remember a few of their 'songs' and they were always kinda gayish. Or they were trying to be. Anyway, it's obviously they stole this, I don't see how Sergio Leone would let them take material from his movies for this kind of shit...

I wish I never saw this.


Yes, they were "kinda gayish". That`s why I asked a question. I mean, what possibly can they have in common with Sergio and his films? Nothing!

It was thought a fashionable look for young men in pop groups in the early 80's. I don't think that Dieter Bohlen or Thomas Anders were gay and their music is still popular in some places. It's reported that they are the biggest-selling German music act in history and it could just be that the person they employed to produce the video was a Leone fan.

I don`t know if they were/are gays, but if you look a little bit better, you will notice that one of them, around his neck, wearing a peace of jewelry with inscription "NORA"!? I don`t know. Maybe he was calling himself like that...
11  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In America / "Modern talking" on: December 17, 2007, 05:41:52 AM
Recently, after many years, I watched on VH1 the video for "Modern talking`s" song "Brother Louie" (year was 1986.) and I was very surprised. I didn`t remembered that the whole video is "covered" with the scenes from OUATIA. Does anyone knows why is that? As I know, this "song" and this "band" has no conecction with Sergio or this film. Further more, film was released in 1984. and this song in 1986. So, I ask again, does anyone knows anything about this?
12  General Information / General Discussion / Re: 20th century immortals........... on: October 02, 2007, 05:19:43 AM
Music: Igor Stravinsky.

Painting: Pablo Picasso.

Film: Sergio Leone.

'Nuff sed.

archie. Cool

I could agree or disagree with you about the painthing or music, but about the film, I agree with you 100%. Afro

THERE WAS, THERE IS AND THERE WILL BE ONLY SERGIO!

I don`t very much like comparation of any kind, but I will say that for me Leone is MICHELANGELLO OF FILM!

Like Michelangello was painter, sculptor, architect..., in that way Leone was everything: he was director, based on his ideas movies were made, co-composer (because he was directly saying to Morricone what kind of music he wants, and practicaly, he take an active part in music writeing...), screenwriter... etc.., and all of that in all of his movies, and all of them are masterpieces. He was "all in one"! Unique artist!

Leone is the greatest! Afro
13  General Information / Trivia Games / Re: The Sergio Leone Elimination Game (ALL MEMBERS PARTICIPATE!) on: October 02, 2007, 04:37:50 AM
Nothing's pointless between these boards, nothing.

I agree, my friend. Afro

All of these boards, are homage to Sergio, are way for us to praise him, way to show our admiration to the GREAT ARTIST, GREAT FILM MAKER, GREAT MAN...!

So, nothing here is pointless, buddy.
14  General Information / General Discussion / Re: Name three movies you wish Leone directed that he did not. on: October 02, 2007, 04:20:22 AM
Im very sory that Leone refused offer to make "The Gotfather". Cry

But on the other hand (if he maked it), maybe then we would never have OUATIA, and that would be great petty...

Probably, the best thing would be if Leone accepted the offer, and maked both films. Smiley
15  General Information / Sergio Leone News / Re: Everything Concerning: DVDs, Posters, and Other (S)W Merchandise on: October 01, 2007, 07:25:37 AM
Nice.
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