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March 22, 2023, 05:45:47 AM

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Messages - stanton

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Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Rate The Last Movie You Saw
« on: February 10, 2023, 10:14:19 AM »
Hour of the Wolf (1968) - 5/10. I've gone back to this film time and time again, waiting for the wolf to appear. Nary a glimpse. Effing Bergman!

Oh, come on, what's wrong  with the drinking water in NY? This is actually his best film (together with Persona meanwhile), a really excellent film. 10/10 yes, yes, yes ...

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Rate The Last Movie You Saw
« on: February 06, 2023, 02:25:12 AM »
Post-Brando, not pre. Or?

Lawrence has some great stuff, of course,  but also too much Hollywood-cliche-characters, and the whole long ending is way too talky for a film. 8/10 will do it

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Sight & Sound Polls 2022
« on: February 01, 2023, 07:33:38 AM »
Wrong thread for a western top 10 I think.

But do we have such a thread? If not we should make one.

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Sight & Sound Polls 2022
« on: February 01, 2023, 04:22:00 AM »
S&S has now expanded the critic's list to # 250:

The S&S western top 10:

1. The Searchers  #15  (9/10)
2. OuTW  # 95  (12/10)
3. Rio Bravo  # 101  (9/10)
4. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance # 108  (6,5/10)
5. Johnny Guitar  # 122  (8/10)
6. The Wild Bunch  # 136  (12/10)
7. GBU  # 169  (11/10)
8. My Darling Clementine  # 243  (9/10)
9. ?
10. ?

Ok only 8 so far,  still not bad for a genre much maligned in former times.

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Rate The Last Movie You Saw
« on: February 01, 2023, 02:54:52 AM »
I meant stereotypical in terms of general online snobbery, it wasn't a shot at you and Stanton. I just found your criticisms meritless.

Of course Top Gun (1986) is campy and silly, but it's way better directed than a 90's Bond film, especially when it comes to action. In spite of its cheese, camp, or anything else, it's a well executed film with solid characters, a good enough story (at worst) that's very well shot and edited. Do you think All That Heaven Allows doesn't have value because it's campy as well?

Yes, TG is a competently directed film, and the actions scenes are well made, actually the action was the only thing I could enjoy in both TGs. And Tony Scott was a good director, but not a good filmmaker. He had directorial skills, maybe more than his brother, but he did not too much with them. And at that time he made with TG and 48 Hours II his worst films, his only boring films.

And the technical qualities of TGM did not impress me, not even the often praised action scenes, they were ok but not fascinating. And even in the original TG the action was not good enough to save an empty film.

I also think that of the 90s bonds Golden Exe is well directed, and has some exiting action, but it is Tomorrow Never Dies which is well comparable to TG, cause it is in itself well made, but it is as a whole so sterile and not inspired that is is a quite boring film. And The World Is not Enough is another 90s Bond which is much better than TG. Actually even the worst 80s Bond, which is A View to a Kill is a little bit better.

And I don't care much for The Departed, it is a good film, but far away from my expectations of a Scorsese gangster flic. It is a 6/10 film, and the last re-watch did not improve that.

Well, I can enjoy films for their pure directorial skills, otherwise forget Leone, but in TG this is all so unimaginative that it does not work. Actually the entertainment value of films comes more from the style of films than its plot or its content. It is less important how a film ends for example, as normally the ending of genre films are predictable, but how the ending is directed.

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Rate The Last Movie You Saw
« on: January 30, 2023, 05:24:43 AM »
Yes, the old one got the worst reviews possible here in Germany, and is now in the "nostalgic" phase, in which everything becomes great which had success in ones childhood. Same with other bad films like Rambo II or underrated films like Red Dawn.

But that does not really explain why seemingly everyone loves the retro charm of TGM.

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Rate The Last Movie You Saw
« on: January 30, 2023, 03:18:53 AM »
Yes, the new Top Gun is a pretty forgettable film, which is with its boring characters and pseudo conflicts too often only a boring film. And the action scenes are indeed good, but far from great, and surely not great enough to save half of this messy film. And Jennifer Connelly massively "understrained"  in a totally superfluous role (apart from the fact that such films seemingly must have these kind of superfluous roles), and I kinda felt sorry for her.

The biggest surprise is that nearly everyone seems to like this aesthetic flop. Actually the only mediocre film I watched last year theatrically. 3/10

Before OUTIW, Bronson was pretty well known in USA with Magnificent Seven, Great Escape, and Dirty Dozen being big hits.  Europeans always have seemed to embrace the Leone films and Morricone more than Americans.

But these were all minor roles, others were the stars of these films. He became a star in Europe in the late 60s, and only a few years later also in the USA with the Michael Winner films.


Rental figures are supplied by the film distributor, I.e. United Artists.
UA was pissed at Eastwood who demanded fifteen percent of the North American gross to appear in GBU.
By underreportong the actual take they hoped avoid a big payout.

But if this is true, then maybe the figures for the other films are also not true, are also too low.

And checking Wikipedia the grosses of other films I had listed from the Variety list are also much higher. And UA had much, much bigger hits with the Bond films, which also were comparatively more successful in Europe than in the USA.


Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Sight & Sound Polls 2022
« on: January 17, 2023, 05:05:10 PM »
Only 18? That's ridiculous ... why not 118? Which would be understandable ...

... but this happens if you things can't buy.

General Discussion / Re: Box office of Leone
« on: January 16, 2023, 08:35:40 AM »
I believe that the premier was in Rome in December 1966. English language version was likely lower priority.

The Dollar trilogy came to the USA in 1967, all 3 in that year.
FoD in January, FaFDM in May and GBU in December.

General Discussion / Re: Box office of Leone
« on: January 16, 2023, 05:34:50 AM »
Of course, then I can compare.

From the Variety data Eastwood's Hang em High, a good but far less attractive film, had more success than Leone, and later high Plain's Drifter also.

General Discussion / Re: Box office of Leone
« on: January 16, 2023, 04:05:58 AM »
Yes, I was only asking for the US data.

It seems the $ income they used is higher than that from the Variety list.

General Discussion / Re: Box office of Leone
« on: January 16, 2023, 03:00:39 AM »
USA (available figures on the same website. Those figures are said as "approximative" as they aren't official data but calculated the same way Stanton did with his figures):

Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo          21 271 000 (#11 that year)
Per un pugno di Dollari                15 591 000 (#20 that year)
Per qualche dollaro in piu             13 761 000 (#20 that year)
C' era una volta il West                4 190 000 (#39 that year)
Il mio nome e Nessuno                3 081 000 (#31 that year)
Once upon a Time in America       1 538 000 (#107 that year)

So yeah, of course a box office success on the US market is more profitable than a box office success in France or Germany, but not than in France AND Germany. "The real money" is everywhere as long as there is money.

For "but not than in France AND Germany" you mean "than" or "then"? "Then" I assume ...

And the figures here are also admissions calculated for the BO in $?

The BO from a Variety list for the Leone westerns (in mio):

GBU : 6,11
FaFDM : 4,35
FoD : 4,25

The others are below 4 mio, and for that not listed.

Some contemporary US westerns from that list:

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid : 45,95
Billy JacK : 32,5 (hard to believe)
Jeremiah Johnson : 21,9
Little Big Man : 15
True Grit : 14,25
Cat Ballou : 9,3
The Professionals : 8,8
High Plains Drifter ; 7,9
Hang em High : 6,78
El Dorado : 6
The War Wagon : 5,93
Hombre : 5,6
Nevada Smith : 5,5
The Wild Bunch : 5,3
2 Mules for Sister Sara : 4,64
5 Card Stud : 4,25
The Undefeated : 4

Inflation adjustment would already make a difference for the time span of these films. In another inflation adjusted Variety list 1966 films are calculated for the inflation with a 2,5 factor and 1972 films with 1,5.

General Discussion / Re: Box office of Leone
« on: January 12, 2023, 08:10:57 AM »
I guess this are the box office data from the year they were released? Or is in an all times box office, that keeps growing up with each re-release?

Also the french wikipedia states 8.9 millions of admissions for OUATITW in Italy (not a huge difference but still a notable one). The source is that website: (which gives also numbers for Germany and France for that movie).

I used data from a book someone else had, and here's a list in Lira for SWs:

Some of my data are already different from that list, others were the same, and of course there are many other factors which are not secured (like the way I calculated the average ticket prices), but my list gives an overview, and a much better one than only looking at the mere Lira data.

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