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8251  Films of Sergio Leone / Other Films / Re: The Big Country (1958) on: May 01, 2011, 06:19:30 AM
oh haha I was confused....   I thought you were talking about a movie title cuz you put the words in bold caps  Grin Grin Grin Grin

(actually, I have seen a film called The Score with Robert De Niro, Edward Norton, and Marlon Brando [in his final performance]; it is a terrific movie; but I knew you weren't referring to that one, cuz it's not a Western... I thought there must have been some other Western with that name  Wink)
8252  Films of Sergio Leone / Other Films / Re: River of No Return (1954) on: May 01, 2011, 01:25:57 AM
I knew there was a topic already. Wink

but it wasn't in the index  Wink
8253  Films of Sergio Leone / Other Films / Re: The Big Country (1958) on: May 01, 2011, 01:23:46 AM
but I never saw the score  Wink
8254  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In The West / Re: were Jill and Brett McBain really married? on: May 01, 2011, 01:22:29 AM
first thing we see in the house is her looking through the drawers... how can she expect to find the reason Brett was killed there?
8255  Films of Sergio Leone / Other Films / Re: The Big Country (1958) on: April 29, 2011, 04:25:36 PM
just saw the movie on TCM, for the first time (TCM has been playing a bunch of Gregory Peck movies today).

 This is the best Western I have seen in a very long time. highly recommended. The landscapes are beautiful, as are the sets (the Terrill house is particularly gorgeous). The acting is terrific all around. And although I usually HATE the love interest stories in Westerns, it worked well in this movie, which had a very nice touch of cynicism about that aspect  Smiley

Just about everything I can ask for in a Western. The only parts I didn't like was the overtly long fistfight; and the fact that Peck has to "prove something to himself"; I thought that was a bit childish. Otherwise, this is a wonderful film.

9/10
8256  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In The West / Re: were Jill and Brett McBain really married? on: April 29, 2011, 11:30:55 AM
Sorry Drink, you seem to be grasping at straws at this point.

 I was never married to this theory. Just floatin it out there  Wink I thought it was just mighty convenient that she says she is married when she realizes Brett is dead (and all the money wouldn't have belonged to her if they weren't married yet).
8257  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In The West / Re: were Jill and Brett McBain really married? on: April 29, 2011, 07:17:12 AM
Before reading this discussion nothing ever made me doubt about Jill and Brett marriage. After, I remain of the same idea.
There is a clue that convince me to believe Jill was not lying about her marriage: when Brett is talking to his elder son (Patrick?), he refers to Jill as "his mother", and he replies that his real mother was dead.
So, I guess Brett uses this expression just because he had married Jill, also with the intention to give a "new" mother to his children.
I think he would have not talked that way if they were just engaged or simple lovers.

so if they were about to get married in a few hours, you don't think Brett would have used the word "mother" yet?
8258  Films of Sergio Leone / Other Films / Re: River of No Return (1954) on: April 29, 2011, 06:44:09 AM
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047422/

just saw "River of No Return" (1954) on Fox Movie Channel. Starring Robert Mitchum and Marilyn Monroe. 5.5/10

waste of time. I counted at least 5 times where we have to endure Marilyn Monroe's singing; luckily I had dvr'd the movie so I just forwarded through those parts.

It's a shame cuz Robert Mitchum delivered a good performance, as did Tommy Rettig, the young actor who played Mitchum's 9-year old son.

CAST:

Robert Mitchum    ...   Matt Calder
Marilyn Monroe    ...   Kay Weston
Rory Calhoun    ...   Harry Weston (gambler)
Tommy Rettig    ...   Mark Calder
Murvyn Vye    ...   Dave Colby (prospector)
Douglas Spencer ...   Sam Benson (prospector)
8259  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In The West / Re: were Jill and Brett McBain really married? on: April 27, 2011, 09:24:58 PM
Maybe she likes it rough.

This is Jill, not Carol  Wink
8260  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In The West / Re: were Jill and Brett McBain really married? on: April 27, 2011, 09:24:31 PM
OK, but why is she still pretending to have married McBain when she gets taken by Frank? When things get dangerous, why doesn't she choose the path of least resistance and admit that she is no obstacle to his plans? Wouldn't she try to convince Frank to let her go, and wouldn't the best way to convince him to do that be to explain that she has no legal claim on the land he's trying to get?



well once she took the lie this far, I think it is understandable that she wouldn't want to suddenly announce what a fraud she has been. Perhaps that would cause her own legal troubles, she could get charged with fraud or false pretenses.... Once she went with the story of being Mrs. McBain, there was no turning back.

If she just wanted an easy way out of her conflict with Frank, it wouldn't have been necessary for her to admit she wasn't the legal owner; rather, she could have simply given the certificate of title (which Brett presumably had) to Frank and been done with it. And sure, Frank could have just killed her or forced her sign over the title to him by making her an offer she couldn't refuse... But I think Frank preferred doing the auction, cuz he is trying to transition from being a bandit to being a businessman. Therefore, it is in his best interests to buy the land at a public auction, where he acquires the rights (seemingly) legitimately...
8261  Other/Miscellaneous / Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Rate The Last Movie You Saw on: April 27, 2011, 07:39:34 PM
"And it is a beautiful set. The locations and production design were real good."

Really, I thought that that was one of the big weaknesses of most of Eastwood's films, really low budget cheap sets. Take a look at the mining town in McCabe & Mrs. Miller, HBO's Deadwood, or even Paint Your Wagon, they are believable, Lago looks like a tourist "frontier" town too neat and clean with no activity, where was the mine & the miners.  A real mining town would look dirty & rough ramshackle, with mine headframes jutting up out of the ground, donkey engines, slag piles, stampmills, etc., etc.

The location was nice, but coming from the Pacific Northwest , a lake like in the film with a mining town would have a steamboat & dock and or levies to carry supplies, ore, equipment etc., etc.

I have not seen any of the films/episodes you mention. I haven't seen  High Plains Drifter in a while, but what I recall I mainly liked about the set is that the town really looked nice in the long shots, set against the backdrop of the beautiful landscape and the river.
 As you actually got into the town, it looked sort of charming if not entirely realistic, ie. I thought a lot of the buildings looked like they just came from the lumberyard, like  a bunch of new, unpolished wood (I don't know what the wood looked like during that era, whether it was polished) and if I recall correctly, there was no wood or brick anywhere. So kind of cute and charming in its own way, if not particularly realistic-looking.

I do agree that since the whole town's economy was supposed to be based on the mine, there should have been some scenes showing it.

Also, I think the opening sequence with Clint riding into town was shot very, very well, alternating POV of Clint and the townsfolk (seems this was influenced by, if not a direct spoof on, the companion scene in Fistful of Dollars).
8262  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In The West / Re: were Jill and Brett McBain really married? on: April 27, 2011, 07:11:41 PM
Seems more ironic than convenient to me.

This is where you might have a point, but I've honestly never given this scene much thought. I always assumed she just spent the night because she didn't feel like trekking back to Flagstone, though that seems incomplete. Maybe she just wanted to find a reason why Brett had been killed. Or maybe she was indeed greedy and wanted McBain's money, widow or not?

If anything scared her it was probably Harmonica's midnight appearance. I thought she was going to leave before Cheyenne showed up.

1. Yeah, you are correct, I just remembered that: she was actually about to leave when Cheyenne burst through the door. So it was certainly not her encounter with Cheyenne that was her cause for leaving. Her only cause(s) for leaving could have been her failure to find the money and/or her midnight scare from Harmonica.

2. Her reason for initially wanting to stay is certainly not just cuz she was not in the mood of trekking back to Flagstone. When Sam says "you don't want to stay out here alone," Jill replies: "Why not? This is my home." If she was just not in the mood of trekking back, she could have told Sam to come back in the morning after she was rested.
Also, another point I just realized upon watching that moment again: As soon as she tells Sam "... This is my home," there is an immediate cut to her frantically searching through the drawers for the money. We don't see her walking around and checking the place out first, or mourning for her murdered husband/stepchildren, or anything else; rather, there is an immediate cut to her tearing the place up looking for the money. I don't think that is coincidental; I think that may well be intended to make the point: she wanted to stay only to look for the money.

3. Of course, even if it is true that Jill only wanted to stay to look for the money and decided to leave immediately upon failing to find it, that certainly doesn't necessarily mean she wasn't married to Brett; she could have been searching for what was rightfully hers to inherit. A woman who loses her husband can certainly be just as money-hungry as a woman who loses her fiance'.
But if you do think it a bit strange how she conveniently announces that she is married at the moment when she realizes she needs to be married in order to get the money, I think the scenes work well: she announces that she is married (in order to get the inheritance), declares that she is staying (in order to search for it), and then it follows that the first thing she does the moment she is in the house alone is to search for the money.

 If she was really married to Brett, and money was not at the forefront of her mind at the moment she realizes he is dead, then why is it that the first thing we see her doing in the house is searching for the money? I do not imagine that the first thing a woman would do after the funeral of her husband and stepchildren  is to search for money. However, if money moved to the forefront of her mind the moment she learned of Brett's death, then it all makes perfect sense: pretend that you were married to inherit his money, and then begin searching for it the first moment you could.

I am not saying that she didn't love Brett, or that she only wanted him for his money, or that she wasn't truly saddened by the death of him and his children. I certainly do not think that she is meant to be evil like that. I just think that she may have been opportunistic (which I imagine fits well with being a whore Wink) So as soon as she realized Brett was dead, she became focused on how she could get his money and did what was necessary to make sure it happened, ie. pretending to be married and then searching for it at the first opportunity.

(Actually, she doesn't say that she was married until someone calls her "Miss." Maybe that suddenly made her realize: I don't get the money if I am "Miss"; I better become "Mrs." fast!



8263  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In The West / Re: were Jill and Brett McBain really married? on: April 27, 2011, 05:32:42 PM
Good point Jenkins.

Then you also have to consider the timing. Jill utters this moments after finding Brett and the kids dead. Is she really that quick on her feet, that in a state of complete shock she thinks up this self-serving lie? Did she for some reason have this in her back pocket in case something happened? If the latter were the case, you'd have to assume Jill is far more devious than anything in the film indicates.

Plus there's her conversation with Cheyenne later on.

It seems a moot point to me, anyway, since Jill and Brett clearly were going to marry if they weren't already. And the Cheyenne scene indicates there was some affection there, not just gold-digging.

Maybe we can advance a conspiracy theory that Jill was in on Brett's death. Evil

I do agree that she loved Brett and certainly intended to marry him. And I do not think she was a devious gold-digger, (though his being rich "doesn't hurt.") The only reason I advanced this theory is cuz it struck me as strange that at the moment we find out Brett is dead -- which makes her entitled to none of his wealth -- she says she is actually married. Isn't this a bit too convenient?

Also, how do you explain her initial decision to stay, and then her decision to abruptly leave? a) Is it just because her encounter with Cheyenne suddenly made her scared about what a dangerous place this was? b) Or is it because her reason for saying she was staying was actually just to search for the money? (The latter of course wouldn't conflict with her actually being married... as I said, nothing here is dispositive...)

One thing that does make me doubt my theory is that I have made every attempt to read, watch, and listen to every word Christopher Frayling has ever uttered about Leone, and I do not recall him ever mentioning this possibility that Jill was lying about her marriage....
8264  Films of Sergio Leone / Once Upon A Time In The West / Re: were Jill and Brett McBain really married? on: April 27, 2011, 05:24:22 PM
The other thing is, the auction scene doesn't make any sense if Jill wasn't actually married to McBain. Jill would have nothing to sell. Of course, if everybody believes that Jill is really McBain's lawful wife, the scene would go forward as shown. But you have to wonder why Jill wouldn't put everybody wise earlier if it wasn't true. Why endure Frank's shenanigans if you don't have to, why not just cop to the fact that you aren't the heir and high-tail it outta there?

That's the whole point I am trying to make: she lies about being married to Brett so that she will inherit all the money she thinks he has lying around.... And when Sam tells her to leave, she insists on staying.

Later she decides to leave (and only stays after she is held back by Harmonica). In between the time she tells Sam that she is staying and the time she tries to leave, only 2 things happen: a) she searches frantically and unsuccessfully for the money; and b) she has her encounter with Cheyenne. So IMO it must be one (or both) of those 2 things that make her decide to leave.

a) If it is the failure to find the money that is the reason she decides to leave, that fits my theory nicely: she lied about her marriage so as to inherit Brett's money; as soon as she realizes he has no money, she decides to leave.

b) However, if you disagree with my theory about her lying about the marriage, then you can say that it is (also) her encounter with Cheyenne that makes her decide to leave, cuz she realizes what a dangerous place this is....

I don't know if anything here is dispositive; it may be one of those issues that may never be resolved 100%. But the reason I brought it up is cuz of 2 things I found somewhat strange:

1) we first find out from Jill that she is married to Brett at the moment she realizes he is dead, whereas if they were not married, she wouldn't be entitled to inherit all the money she thinks he has. 2) after initially saying she was staying in Sweetwater, she abruptly decides to leave. How do you explain that?

Bottom line: While I can't say I feel very strongly either way, I will say that if you follow my theory, it clears up both issues well. In a nutshell: Jill lies about the marriage and decides to stay to inherit the money she thinks Brett has left; when she realizes there is no money, she decides to bolt.



8265  Other/Miscellaneous / Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Rate The Last Movie You Saw on: April 27, 2011, 03:37:29 PM
High Plains Drifter - 7/10 -

.... Mostly it's a film of moments rather than a compelling whole, though.

Can't disagree there.

SPOILER

I HATE any supernatural stuff in movies. (I always prefer films that "could have happened," so to speak. So I'd prefer it if Eastwood would have turned out to instead have been eg. the brother of the dead sheriff).
But the film did have some wonderful moments. Mainly, some of those parts where he just makes an absolute farce out of the whole town are absolutely hilarious!
And it is a beautiful set. The locations and production design were real good.
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