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Messages - The clint
16
« on: March 02, 2012, 06:30:00 PM »
Off topic: in the scene above with Cary Grant and Hitchcock, that's typically an example ahown when explaining letterbox format. Without seeing everything, one doesnt know Alfie is even there.
Yeah, this is actually a pretty interesting example because I've had two VHS versions of To Catch a Thief, one of which was missing old Hitch from the side of the frame (pretty ridiculous really, since he's known for having a cameo in almost every film he's done) but the other one panned to the right of the frame after Cary Grant turned his head away from the bird cage (a particularly ugly pan, obviously not a camera move).
17
« on: February 28, 2012, 10:00:24 AM »
One other reason may be that the scene works better in the shorter version.
If their intention was to restore the Rome premiere version (as evidenced by the inclusion of the grotto scene) then I think they would've incorporated the longer beating scene if they could've. Many people seem to think that the film works better without the grotto scene (I'm one of the them) but that didn't stop MGM from including it anyway. Still, you never know when a character like John Kirk is calling the shots...
18
« on: February 19, 2012, 01:59:42 PM »
OUTW was also an Italian production. Parmaount gave money, just like UA did for GBU and DYS.
I stand corrected, OUTW was an Italian-US coproduction, but where have you heard that GBU and DYS were financed by UA? As far as I know UA only handled the distribution...
19
« on: February 19, 2012, 10:22:40 AM »
Thanks.
I know that the scene with Dr. Villega being tortured -- see in shadows or something -- was shot but Leone decided not to include it in the movie; is that scene available anywhere?
p.s. As far as I know, of all the scenes in Leone movies that were shot but which Leone himself then decided not to include in the movie, none survived, right? I was just thinking: maybe he specifically destroyed them to prevent anyone from ever including it in any version of the movie later on? I mean, he wouldn't have been thinking about home video, but perhaps restored re-releases in theater? is it possible that Leone wanted to eliminate any possibility they would ever be used later on and therefore destroyed them? I'm asking because I was just thinking that it was interesting that none of the scenes that Leone himself decided not to include in a movie, have survived.
To my knowledge all deleted scenes from DYS are missing, but Once Upon a Time in the West and America both had some surviving deleted footage (That's already been incorporated into "West" in Italy) so Leone definitely wasn't one of those directors that systematically destroyed all unused footage. However, both "West" and "America" were US productions while DYS is an Italian-only production. Perhaps Italian production companies took less care in preserving unused footage.
20
« on: February 13, 2012, 04:26:51 PM »
is there anything here that is not in the English Special Edition MGM dvd (from "The Sergio Leone Anthology")? That is the dvd that I have and I just want to know if there is any footage that was ever included in any version of the movie -- the one at that link or anywhere else -- that is not in that Special Edition dvd?
The SE MGM DVD contains, to my knowledge, all existing footage.
21
« on: February 11, 2012, 07:23:33 PM »
I just discovered this Spanish version of DYS on youtube. Crappy quality for sure but has some interesting features: Running 2:16 minutes (in PAL, would be about 2:21 in 24p) this cut seems like some sort of the hybrid between the United Artists cut version and the Italian version. All the cuts correspond to cuts made in the the UA version, most notably the shortening of Juan's seduction of the aristocratic woman, the night scene by the church, dialogue from Dr. Villega referencing "foreign capitalists", Juan's "how to get fucked!" line and the second-to-last flashback which is missing the long "moment" shared by John and his friend before he shoots him (the editing of the music is a complete mess in this scene). Surprisingly, the entire final flashback has been restored to this version (with the original music too!). Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpPIPVX1dK4
22
« on: February 04, 2012, 09:41:57 AM »
According to MGM at least, the cave scene and extended torture sequence were part of the premiere version in Italy running 180 minutes. According to some sources, an intermission was added after the scene in which Blondie spills coffee over Tuco.
And by the way, a little conspiracy theory on my behalf: I don't think they skipped adding the longer torture scene because of damage. I think the reason is, quite obviously, that as the music in the English shorter cut and Italian longer cut is completely different (different takes of the song) they couldn't properly edit the English dialogue into the scene without introducing ridiculous jumps in the music (try it yourselves!). So they just pulled a worn out print version of the sequence and slapped on the "too damaged to incorporate" excuse because they thought people would accept that excuse better.
23
« on: December 24, 2011, 10:11:08 AM »
@ the Clint: on page 8 of that threas you find 3 YouTube links which show you the differences between the German theatrical version and the Paramount version. Amongst them the original ending.
Wow, thanks for that, seems my homework for OUATITW was somewhat lacking. I stand corrected.
24
« on: December 20, 2011, 05:46:52 PM »
The Youtube video shows the long Italian version (which is imo not a DC) which plays the exit music over a freeze frame, but still after the film has already ended.
It is indeed a freeze-frame, but the credits are rolling over it so it can hardly be called "exit music". Do you mean that the original Italian cut didn't feature any end credits? And this happens to be the only Italian version I've ever encountered... How long is the Italian cut you consider a DC and how can I obtain it?
25
« on: December 19, 2011, 03:21:42 PM »
Yes, the closing music is wrong on the Paramount DVDs based on the English master. But again, it doesn't hurt the film.
At some point it changes from the America (or Jill) theme to the Cheyenne theme, which doesn't make any sense, while in the original version the America theme goes on until the end.
I'm sorry, but this isn't entirely correct. Both English and Italian versions switch to Cheyenne's theme during the credits, it just so happens that the credits come later in the Italian version. There's no way they can alter the English version to resemble the Italian version unless they were to re-do both the title and end-credits, or just use the Italian title and credits. For reference, here is the Italian finale, title and end credits sequence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znfd98Qv7f8
26
« on: December 19, 2011, 02:55:51 PM »
Are there any more differences other than the scenes excised from the international cut?
I think all that I know of have been covered, but if I find more I'll be sure to post them 
27
« on: December 19, 2011, 02:53:41 PM »
I wonder if Triage was trying to sync the english soundtrack with the Italian cut of the film where Eli is screaming the line in Italian? Correct! The Italian cut used an alternate take of the shot in which Wallach was yelling the lines in Italian. I guess it was shot twice because in such a close-up the dubbing would be too obvious. Apparently the English language cut of the film (with the english main titles, character intros, tuco yelling and final "The End" shot) has only survived in dupe form (the massive drop in print quality during the character intros is due to this) and Triage seems to have tried to match the italian print to the English dialogue. In the end however, they went for the English language shot, even though there's no mention of it in the docu. You can see the Italian shot at the end of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd_4NqueL5c&feature=related
28
« on: November 25, 2011, 03:14:46 PM »
And the extended torture scene is really much too long. But these guys surely would have used it if found in a better condition.
I'm not so sure about that. You've probably noticed that the extended scene (as well as the official Italian cut for that matter) feature a completely different take of "The Story of a Soldier" to the international release version. Since there are are no surviving separate English dialogue tracks, they would've had to overlap the English bits with the extended ones, creating noticeable edits in the music. The take used for the Italian version was cut from about 7:20 to 3:57 for the original soundtrack, but the extended soundtrack featured the take used in the international version running 5:34. It's obvious that the entire sequence was completely re-edited to sync with the latter take (especially noticeable in the violin parts). The Italian cut version used a different (and much cruder) approach, simply cross-fading the audio around the cut parts, resulting in very strange lapses in time signature during the entire scene! There are more differences between the versions though. One that I noticed immediately is that the final shot of Tuco screaming "just a dirty son of a bitch!" seems to exist in two different takes: one in which he is screaming the Italian line, the other in which he is screaming the English line.
30
« on: September 12, 2009, 08:42:19 PM »
His comments on the DYS docs are inexcusable though.
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