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Messages - The clint

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For a Few Dollars More / Re: Just dug out my old laserdisc...
« on: September 09, 2009, 12:47:09 PM »
PS check out Jirk's ridiculous "interpretation' of the love triangle in DYS (i.e. it was Mallory who was the informer; he turned in his friend over jealousy- I KID YOU NOT).

That was actually Glenn Erickson of DVDSavant (Which is a website that denied in it's review of the Leone box-set that the music cues were wrong for Duck You Sucker), he's just as big an idiot as John Kirk is.

I've given up on MGM getting these movies right, next summer I will make my own Blu-Ray version of GBU (and DYS when it's released on Blu-Ray). I will remove the remastered audio and replace it with the mono track from the original MGM disc, then cross-fade it to the mono Italian for the additional scenes. I will also try to include the international version with a "seamless branching" feature. BD downloads take a long time although I hope I can make it available for download sometime in the future.

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Blue Ray
« on: August 16, 2009, 04:02:48 PM »
Maybe, but I don't think having both mono and stereo on the same track is supported.

You can cut between mono and stereo without a problem, I assure you. The mono would be properly placed in the center channel while the other speakers are simply silent, then all speakers are used for the surround parts (if you want to retain the terrible surround mix that is, I'd personally just switch to Italian).

Sorry, but you're wrong about that one.

The ending of c'era una volta il west:

In the Italian version, the soundtrack does NOT switch to "Farewell to Cheyenne" theme but remains on the "finale."

Sorry to contradict you but I HAVE the Italian version on DVD. This youtube clip is incomplete, it only shows the title but after that the credits sequence starts over a freezeframe of the last shot with "Farewell to Cheyenne" playing over it.

I have to disagree with one point that has come up often on this message board, and in this thread: The music at the end of the DVD is not really incorrect, the 'Farewell to Cheyenne' theme plays over the credits of ALL existing versions of this film I know of, including the original Italian release. What probably confuses people is that the credits appear sooner in the English/International cut of the film so they had to cut to the theme sooner as a result. Restoring the scene to it's original length is impossible unless you don't mind the film's TITLE and credits sequence being in Italian, which I personally find bothersome.

Duck, You Sucker / Re: How good is DYS?
« on: January 06, 2009, 08:07:03 AM »
I'd say Duck You Sucker is definitely Leone's odd film out. There is a very abrupt change of atmosphere around half-way through, and the whole film is weighed down by a strong topically political scent. It is, all things considered a very competently made film (apart from that awful wipe edit around two hours in).

So does anyone know, whether the 175 minute version was the one that premiered in Italy in 1968 or not?

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Reclassified '15' by the BBFC!
« on: July 23, 2008, 02:17:18 PM »
Further info from the BBFC:

THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY in an extended version of a 1966 western about three men searching for hidden gold during the American Civil War. It was passed '15' for strong violence, moderate gore and hanging scenes.

The BBFC's Guidelines at '15' with regard to Violence state that 'Violence may be strong but may not dwell on the infliction of pain or injury'. The film contains several violent scenes with the strongest scene featuring one of the three men being brutally beaten to extract information about the location of the gold. This is a long scene that includes sight of a man's thumbs being pushed into the victim's eyes, but this sequence and other violent moments cut away after establishing the action rather than dwelling on the violence so it is permissible at '15' although the detail and emphasis on injuries here and elsewhere means it exceeds the '12A' rubric.

There are also some scenes showing moderate gore with the strongest scenes occurring during an extended sequence when a man is forced to walk through a desert and which causes his skin to blister and bleed and these too exceed the '12A' rubric although they are not the strongest gory images that are unlikely to be acceptable at '15'.

As for Imitable techniques, the film features some hanging scenes that often involve a man being saved from death by his colleague shooting the rope that hangs around his neck. These scenes appear to be harm free and are not allowable at '12A', although they do no dwell on imitable detail so they are permissible at '15'.

THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY also contains some mild and moderate language and moderate sex references

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Reclassified '15' by the BBFC!
« on: July 09, 2008, 11:29:40 AM »

Finally this film carries the rating it should've carried all these years!

I wonder which was the original title card "Fistfull" or "Fistful". Which do you think makes more sense?

I think the alternate opening titles should've been presented as an extra on the DVD.

Duck, You Sucker / Re: Region 1 DVD - Correct mono mix?
« on: April 30, 2008, 01:57:34 PM »
Just acquired a (rather low-quality) DVD-rip of the Italian CVC edition. The Italian version has all the correct music cues, has "short fuse" (in Italian of course), no translated dialogue over the Spanish in the grotto scene (I'm not sure whether Italian and Spanish are similar enough to be mutually understandable) and none of the added sound effects. As far as I'm concerned this puts the lid on this research: The MGM remixed soundtrack is most definitely flawed and IMO should be recalled from stores.

Does anyone know whether the 175 minute cut was the cut released in Italy in 1968 or was it a cut cobbled together later on, perhaps for a re-release or just the DVD of the movie? I've always been a bit confused about this subject.

Duck, You Sucker / Re: Region 1 DVD - Correct mono mix?
« on: April 21, 2008, 04:34:16 PM »
Here you go:

Ripped from the German mono soundtrack of the 2003 region 2 A Fistful of Dynamite release, not very good quality I'm afraid.

Duck, You Sucker / Re: Region 1 DVD - Correct mono mix?
« on: April 20, 2008, 01:22:56 PM »
I think I’d like to discuss a bit the “short fuse” vs “duck, you sucker” issue.  It’s not new and has been talked about some on three or four old threads.  I should reread them. I think it might be best to resurrect one of those old threads.  I’m interested in member preference and director intent.

If you ask me, I think it's obvious that "short fuse" was both the director's preferred line and the original dubbed line.

The only complaint I have about the new 5.1 surround mix is the incorrect musical cues. They play the same version of the main theme (track 13 on the new DYS CD) 3 times in the span of 20 minutes. It's suppose to be track 15 for the flashback where Mallory's friend is killed, the original DYS theme for the final flashback, and After the Explosion for the credits though I think Track 13 fits nicely here.

After the Explosion was actually not the music used for the end credit scene in the original release of the film, but a variation of the DYS theme, not included on the soundtrack. I have an mp3 of it if you want to hear it.

Duck, You Sucker / Re: Region 1 DVD - Correct mono mix?
« on: April 16, 2008, 09:50:36 AM »
Full analysis of the differences between the original English sound mix and the 5.1 remastered mix:

All the time markers refer to the R1 Collector's Set of DYS.

0:00:40 - Sound comes in at full volume, the original mix has the sound faded up at this point.
0:01:14 - An extra 'wop' has been added at this point. (The French soundtrack on the CE doesn't have the extra 'wop', neither do any of the soundtracks from the 2003 PAL disc, nor does the Italian extended soundtrack so this is definitely not supposed to be here).  I suspect this was taken from the cut print of the film, which started directly with the 'wop' sound to cover up the fact that the beginning of the cue had been cut off. (Music)
0:04:02 - Juan's 'Ah!' sounds different for some reason.
0:10:47 - A lot of stereo reverb has been added to the dialogue here.
0:13:41 - Morricone's music is faded out before we hear the last bell clinging when the shot lawyer drops his head (Music)
0:16:59 - Here is an audio cross-fade to a much lesser quality sound element (previously censored footage)
0:18:50 - Back to good sound quality.
0:20:22 - Back to the bad sound quality (previously censored footage)
0:20:31 - Back to good sound quality. Sound of the explosion changes as it awkwardly hits the rear right channel of the surround mix
0:21:13 - A completely new explosion is overlayed over the old one. This happens most of the time so it's not worth the effort listing all of them
0:28:13 - Drop in sound quality (previously censored footage/dialogue 3)
0:28:42 - Back to good sound quality
0:38:24 - John's laughter is different/shorter at this point for some reason
0:43:00 - Drop in sound quality (previously censored footage 4)
0:48:26 - Juan's laughter is shorter at this point. Back to the good sound quality
1:04:18 - Drop in sound quality (previously censored footage/dialogue)
1:05:14 - Back to good sound quality
1:17:45 - Drop in sound quality (previously censored footage/dialogue)
1:18:02 - Back to good sound quality
1:21:02 - Drop in sound quality (previously censored dialogue)
1:21:07 - Back to good sound quality
1:21:29 - Music fades prematurely (Music)
1:23:23 - Drop in sound quality (Previously censored dialogue)
1:23:26 - Back to good sound quality
1:24:05 - Drop in sound quality (previously censored dialogue)
1:24:14 - Back to good sound quality
1:28:02 - Singular instance of the word 'fuck' has been edited out of the dialogue
1:42:40 - Additional dialogue is present here on the SE but not the 2003 DVD. I no longer have the Pre-Cert to check this part of the film unfortunately. It appears to be an english translation of the spanish dialogue in the background. Here is a transscript of the new dialogue: "Hold it! Load that bastard onto the truck! And see to it that he gets to the camp alive!"
1:51:53   - John says "Duck, You Sucker!" instead of "Short Fuse!". This was an alteration made originally to the short version of the film. This line of dialogue has been taken from earlier in the film, right before John blows up the stagecoach and is, thus, obviously not supposed to be here.
1:52:29   - Drop in sound quality (Previously censored footage)
1:57:16 - Back to good sound quality
1:57:37 - Singular instance of the word 'fuck' has been edited out of the dialogue
2:08:49 - Sound effect of door slamming is obscured here for some reason
2:10:40 - Drop in sound quality (previously censored dialogue)
2:10:53 - Back to good sound quality
2:16:08 - This scene has a completely different version of the theme than the original has. The original mix (and the even French mix on the CE) has track 15 from disc 2 of the extended Italian soundtrack in this scene, whereas this mix has track 1 from disc 1 for the first part of this scene! (Music)
2:16:42 - The first gunshot sounds doubled up. This is because the effect was lifted from the censored version which had John kill both of the policemen in succession.
2:16:47 - Here track 1 is mixed into track 13 of disc 2! The second gunshot covers the edit. (Music)
2:25:07 - The original version has reverb on John's last yell
2:27:00 - Drop in sound quality (previously censored footage/dialogue)
2:27:21 - Back to good sound quality
2:30:06 - Music starts at full volume instead of fading up. The music here is completely different to the original version. The original mix has track 1 from disc 1 of the Italian extended soundtrack, whereas this mix has the first part of track 5 called "I Figli Morti" (in English: The Dead Sons, and has been lifted from the scene when John blows up the bridge. Ennio Morricone would never re-use the exact same musical cue for a scene so it obviously does not belong here). (Music)
2:30:17 - John's grunts have been muted here.
2:30:52 - Here track 5 is terribly crossfaded into track 13 (again)! (Music)
2:34:42 - Music starts at full volume instead of fading up. Again the version used is completely different to the original version. The original music for the end credits can not be heard on the old 2003 DVD because that version is missing the flashback and had the flashback music extended over the end credits. It can, however, be heard in the German sound mix of the same disc as well as the Pre-Cert VHS. Again, we have to endure yet another playout of track 13! The real end credit music does not appear to be on the extended soundtrack. I have an mp3 if anyone is interested to hear it. (Music)

There appear to have been two sources for the 5.1 remastered soundtrack for Duck You Sucker, the main bulk of the film seems to have been put together from a soundtrack master for the 138 minute US version. The gaps that were created have been filled by a lesser quality English version of the full English soundtrack, which was released on a DVD in 2003. Therefor, in some instances, dialogue has been censored or altered in the new mix.

The remixing team have also taken it upon themselves to "liven up" the limited original soundtrack by overlaying new sound effects. This however was a terrible mistake because you can hear a mile away what sound effects are new, and which ones are original because, firstly the new effects have completely different audio fidelity and secondly, the new effects are the only sound effects that are in stereo! Additions include horse trampling, glass breaking, locomotive noises, engine noises, gunshot impacts, new explosions that are pasted "over" the original ones (not "instead" of the original ones, as you can still hear the original explosions behind the new ones!) and lots of rock and sand fall-out from every single explosion in the film.

Duck, You Sucker / Re: Region 1 DVD - Correct mono mix?
« on: April 15, 2008, 09:46:05 AM »
It is pretty obvious which is correct and which has been tampered with. I use for reference a) the italian 2 disc Giu La Testa soundtrack b) the 2003 MGM disc (which has the original master audio, untampered with) c) A UK Pre-Cert tape from the early eighties which contains the altered 138 minute version with censored soundtrack, but correct music (apart from some minor edits). I also have an avi of the original italian flashback ripped from the CVC version of Giu La Testa. It's quite obvious that the SE soundtrack is incorrect because all the older editions agree, where the SE disagrees.

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