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Web Site Announcements / Sergio Leone Web Board Community Standards
« on: October 06, 2005, 08:08:04 PM »
The Sergio Leone Forums is a moderated discussion board and all topics are monitored frequently. If you choose to become or choose to remain a member of this forum, you must agree to abide by the terms and conditions of the following community standards.

These community standards are meant to serve as an example of the style of posting we encourage here, and they may not describe all possible situations that would require a moderator to take action. Therefore, they do not limit the actions moderators may take in certain situations.

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Bashing of anyone who acted in films with Sergio Leone or otherwise contributed to his films will not be tolerated. Negative analysis is NOT bashing, provided it is backed up with fact. For example:

Bashing would be saying:
" Ennio Morricone sucks."

Whereas a legitimate analysis would be:
"I don't think that Ennio Morricone is the best composer out there. I think his music is bland and boring.

Reporting Posts to a Moderator

Do not "moderate" other members when they do not follow the guidelines. If you see a post that is inappropriate, click on the "Report to Moderator" link. You are not being a tattletale, and the person you are reporting will not know who reported him or her. This is by far the best way for the community to police itself, since all the moderators receive the notification. 

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Provide Sources

Any excerpt or article posted on the Board must be accompanied by a link unless one is not available. Credit must be given to the originator of the information.

What Threads Belong Where

The Leone News forum is for the discussion of news regarding Sergio Leone or his films.  Please remember to provide a link if one is available.

The General Discussion forum is for discussions on any general Leone-related topic not covered elsewhere.  It’s not for discussion in general.  Threads like “I’m Mad” really belongs in the Off Topic Discussion so please post them there.

The Trivia Games forum is for any games you would like to play that relate to Sergio Leone films.

The “Other Films” thread is for Sergio Leone related films other than the big five that have their own forums.  Films such as ones that he was assistant director on or had a hand in writing the screenplay for should be posted there.   If you want to post a thread about a movie other than a related Leone Film please do so in the “Off Topic” Forum.

The Off-Topic Discussion forum is for posts that are not related to Sergio Leone.  It  is a place where members can post about anything non-Leone related which would be of general interest to most members. This is not to be used as a substitute for a daily blog by any member. If you want to post your own art, poetry, stories, etc., find your own site and you can put a link to it in your profile.

The Web Site Announcements forum is used to announce anything special about the site that members should be aware of and where you should post about any problems you are experiencing with the operation of the board.

Obviously, there are some gray areas. But, please take the time to make sure your thread is in the right forum. 

Political Posts and Topics

We strongly discourage threads pertaining to politics, as these topics have been known to cause hostility among members. If you post a political topic, expect it to be deleted. If you make a political remark in any topic in any forum, expect it to be edited or deleted. Any political remarks that are used in a member's profile (signature or personal text) will need to be removed in order for the member to be permitted to continue posting on the board.

Contacting Other Members via PM or E-mail

The administrator and the moderators are not responsible for the conduct between or among members that take place through private correspondence. Any member who sends obscene, threatening, abusive or insulting messages to any member or moderator via PM, e-mail or forum post, for whatever reason, will have his/her posting rights revoked immediately.


Racist, sexist, homophobic or any other kind of discriminatory remarks or sentiments will NOT be tolerated in any way, shape or form. Anyone who chooses to post these kind of remarks WILL have the remarks removed by moderators, WILL be warned by the moderators, and MAY be banned (have his/her membership privileges revoked).

"Adult" Material

Sexually explicit pictures and/or discussions are not allowed. We do have some young members; therefore keep your posts clean of adult language and vulgar statements. The Board will automatically censor certain words, but some may get by that are inappropriate. The moderators have the right to edit these posts and request to the member that such words not be used in the future. Anyone who chooses to post vulgar statements is subject to a warning from the moderators and/or banning of his/her membership.

Special Note: The dialogue of Sergio Leone movies often contains vulgarities and profanities, which may be quoted, in the proper context, for the purpose of discussion. However, the use of those same words in your own posts (or in signatures or personal texts) is prohibited.   

Getting Banned

Lack of cooperation or continued refusal to adhere to these community standards, and/or with moderator requests or instructions, will result in termination of membership. Any member may be banned at any time by name, IP address, e-mail address, or other identification without any prior warning and without any explanation given. We will oblige the offender with an explanation, if asked. 

Linking to your Home Page vs. Spamming

If you have a personal home page, feel free to include the link in your profile. But remember:  this forum isn't here to drive traffic to your site, and spamming or advertising will be promptly deleted -- and the offender typically banned. 

Moderating Principles

We will not hesitate to be heavy-handed if that's what it takes to keep things under control and civil. That will probably make some people unhappy who feel that we are being too harsh or trying to stifle certain points of view, but the moderation team will do what is necessary to ensure that this forum remains the respected website that it has become and remains an enjoyable experience for all our members. All serious infractions of the rules are discussed among the moderators and all actions taken are agreed upon by the moderators.

If you have any issue with forum moderation, do not post your issue on the forum. You may direct your question to a moderator or the site administrator via PM or e-mail.

Please post threads in their proper place. 

Have fun and enjoy this wonderful site that Cal has provided for us and remember to use common sense when posting.

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: How far do they walk
« on: October 03, 2005, 09:10:18 PM »
Well Tuco’s not stupid (even though he has trouble reading) so I don’t think he goes back to the town that was going to hang him. 

He probably just keeps on going  the way Blonide’s horse goes. I mean, if he’s going to hunt down and kill Blondie he might as well start right away.  We see him yelling at Blondie and calling him names as he’s left for dead.  The next scene is Angel Eyes and the “fresh young whore in the territory” and that takes place a night.  The next scene is the next day with Tuco coming to the gun shop presumably in the afternoon/evening? 

For a Few Dollars More / Re: Funny look
« on: October 01, 2005, 12:10:13 AM »
Beebs, the spinning the gun back into the holster is Manco's move.  When Mortimer does it, Manco's shooting him a look as if to say, hey bro, not only are you stealing my move, your doing it with my gun.8)

That's my thoughs on it...

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Create Your Own Magnificent Seven!
« on: September 28, 2005, 09:00:03 PM »
This is a great  thread Groggy.  Sure would be tough to pick just 7.

I'm assuming all westerns right?  I’ll go with:

Joe/Clint Eastwood FFD The Jordan of Gunfighters

Harmonica/Charles Bronson OUATW Calculating

John T. Chance/John Wayne Rio Bravo Good Leader

John Russell/Paul Newman Hombre Fast, I mean fast!

Vin/Steve McQueen The Magnificent Seven Ultra Cool

Pike Bishop/William Holden The Wild Bunch A little old but you just got to like the guy.

Col. Douglas Mortimer/Lee Van Cleef FFDM Well armed and full of class.

Ennio Morricone / Re: Morricone soundtracks
« on: September 27, 2005, 05:14:53 PM »
It's funny that John Carpenter's The Thing soundtrack won a Razzie that year for worst soundtrack of the year.  I personally love the soundtrack, and yes, I think it mimics Carpenter's errie synthisised tunes. (Carpenter is a talent).  I also like DePalma's The Untouchables soundtrack by Morricone.  But still, nothing compares to, IMO, The Good, The Bad and the Ugly title track.  No movie tune in history is more engrained in the brain of pop culture than that one.  It's in commercials, TV shows, other movies, etc.

It's interesting if you listen to some of the Special Features on The Good, The Bad and The Ugly DVD it talks about how Morricone got the "Wha Eee Wha Eee Ayyya" sound from.  From a coyotes howl.  Leone knowing this put in a couple of howls of coyotes in the opening scene in GBU and right after the opening credits and as they are closing in on Tuco you can hear the coyotes howling, and if your listening for it, you can hear the resemblence in the coyotes howling and Morricone's title track...  

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Where are the bodies???
« on: September 27, 2005, 04:27:10 PM »
Well, there were two battles in New Mexico during the Cilvil War.

 The Battle of Glorida Pass and the Battle at Valverde

The Union won Glorida and the Confederates won Valverde...

You be the judge...

Once Upon A Time In The West / Re: analysis on jill
« on: September 25, 2005, 09:27:11 PM »
Analyze this!

Probably one of the most hottest, beautiful, exquisite female of the species ever to be put on celluloid...

It was either sleep with Frank or die....At least if she's alive she can take a nice hot bath....

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Blondie and his gun
« on: September 16, 2005, 03:22:18 PM »
This is a very rare excellent example of a "rouge gunsmith" taking it upon himself ignore the patent that Smith Wesson had on the bore through cylinder.  It is neither a Thur's conversion or Richards Mason Conversion, it's simply some guy who had access to .38 rim fire cartridges from Europe, who being oversea's didn't have to follow any US patent laws so started taking it upon themselfs, next to Smith and Wesson's small caliber rimfire's, to produce the first "mid to large" size caliber cartridges...

It is such a fine example of one of the first true early to mid '60 conversions that I am seriously thinking about buying it for my collection...

Notice how the back of the cylinder has a removable piece, which to breech load the cylinder.  You can see the individual firing pins behind each cylinder.  This type of conversion would allow you to toggle back and forth between cap and ball to metallic cartridge cylinders...
Example 2 mentioned above

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: THE ROAD WARRIOR
« on: September 16, 2005, 02:57:38 PM »

She's the last of the V8's...Sucks Nitro....Phase Four Heads.....Twin Overhead Cams......600 Horsepower.......The Blower, Man!

She's meanness put to music and the bitch is born to run! 

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Blondie and his gun
« on: September 11, 2005, 10:33:37 PM »
I've said it before and  I'll say it again.

It's happened all the time back then.  As long as there were mettlic cartridges made for rifles there were guys willing to saw off thier fricken cylinders to accomidate the cartridge.  It's as simply as that.  I'm sure they didn't give a rat's ass about infriging on anyones patent.

I'll run down the whole deal...

"Rollin White had taken out a patent dated April 3, 1855 for a revolver with the chambers bored all the way through the cylinder.  The patent was purchased by a firm (Smith and Wesson) who adapted a revolver built under it to the new rim-fire .22 caliber self exploding metallic cartridges.  This patent, despite the fact that it was not originally intended to apply to self exploding metallic cartridge revolvers, prevented, until it expired, any other firm from putting on the market a revolver that loaded from the rear of the cylinder.  Another factor that delayed the spread of cartridge hand arms was the difficulty of obtaining cartridges along the frontiers, where most of the large-caliber revolvers were used, until their manufacture and sale for use in rifles became widespread.

During the period of change, a great number of cap and ball revolvers were altered to take one of the self-exploding metallic cartridges put out for the use in rifles.  The rifle and revolver cartridges available for use in standard-size percussion-cap revolvers were: .32 short and long rim-fire, which would fit the .31 caliber Pocket revolvers; .38 short and long rim-and center fire, which would fit the .36 caliber Navy, Police and Pocket revolvers: the .44 rim-fire Henry and Ballard, .44 center-fire American and Russian which would fit the .44 caliber Old Model Army and the .44 Model of 1860 Army revolvers.

There were several methods of altering a cap and ball revolver to a cartridge arm.  The simplest way was accomplished by cutting off the part of the cylinder that contained the nipples, boring out the chambers to fit the cartridge to be used, filling up the space between the cut-down cylinder and the standing breech by inserting a plate of metal with an opening on the right side fir the insertion of cartridges, and adding a thin blade to the nose of the hammer to fire a rim-fire cartridge.  The most common of these alteration of this type were .36 caliber to a .38 rim-fire.  In the longer barreled .36 and .44 caliber models a hinged gate at the bottom and held by a spring catch was usually added to the opening for insertion of the cartridges(Blondie’s bad ass conversion), and a ejector rod was put on the right side of the barrel to shove out the empty shells.  Sometimes the old lever rammer was left in its place(Blondie’s bad ass conversion); sometimes it was removed and the hole filled up flush with the frame(smoky ruins gun from Josey Wales).  When either the .36 or .44 caliber arms were altered to take center-fire cartridges , the nose of the hammer was usually cut off flat and make to strike on a separate firing pin that was set with a rebound spring in the new breech plate that took up the space formerly occupied by the nipples of the percussion cylinder.  In some cases a new cylinder chambered for the cartridge to be used was fitted to the old frame.(Blondie's bad ass conversion)

Two types of alteration allowed for the use of a second cylinder still taking the regular cap and ball loose ammunition in case cartridges could not be obtained.  One used a special cylinder, bored through and usually counter-sunk for the rims of the cartridges, which had a cap fitting over the back end to hold the cartridges in place and was pierced with small slits at the edge of the chambers to allow the nose of the hammer to enter and explode the rim-fire cartridges.  To reload this type of alteration, it was necessary to dismount the barrel and take off the cylinder. The cap then lifted off the pins that held it to the cylinder and the empty cartridges could be pushed out by the center pin and placed by loaded ones.  As this system entailed no change in the frame of the arm itself, a regular cap and ball cylinder could be put in the place o the altered cylinder at a moment’s notice. 

The patents for the alterations of the Colt revolvers are listed on the frames of the altered arms as 1871 and 1872.  Factory alterations of Colt Army and Navy revolvers were in the hands of the services of the United States prior to November 27,1872, as an ordnance report speaks of the arms in use at that date as conversions of the cap and ball Colt revolvers.  Alterations other than factory work, done by private gunsmiths, are seldom dated and might be made any time after the cartridge that they are chambered for was put on the market.   "
[End Quote]

Below are a listing of the typical types of conversions that individual owners, dubious gunsmiths and ingenious soldiers came up with for converting their cap and ball revolvers to cartridge firing pistols.

Conversion #1:
This conversion is done by cutting out the nipples off the rear end of the cylinder leaving a bore through hole to breech load.  The gap is then filled with a removable breech plate.  The hammer is cut to reach cartridges through a slit in the plate.  This type of conversion allows for cylinder style to toggle back and forth from percussion-cap to rim fire metallic cartridges.

Conversion #2:
This conversion is done by cutting through just forward of the nipples and taking the cutoff piece of cylinder and removing the nipples and replacing them with pins and slotting the piece to allow for a hammer with an added head to fall in the slots hitting the pins.  The piece is reattached to the cylinder.  This type of conversion allows for cylinder style to toggle back and forth from percussion-cap to rim fire metallic cartridges.
Conversion #3:
This conversion is done by cutting off the cylinder leaving bore through holes, filling the gap with a permanent breech plate with loading gate and rebounding firing pin.  No modification to the hammer required.  For center fire metallic cartridges.

This conversion is done by the same as above but mounting the firing pin to the hammer.  For center fire metallic cartridges.

Conversion #5 The Richards Mason Conversion
This was a factory machined process replacing the cylinder and barrel completely to accommodate for metallic cartridges and adding an ejector rod and center fire hammer.  These conversion were done legally after the Smith and Wesson patent ran out on bore through cylinders.

Conversion #6 The Thuer’s Conversion
This got around Smith and Wesson’s patent by loading the metallic cartridge from the front of the cylinder much like percussion-cap.  These took special Thuer’s ammunition and were clumsy and not very reliable.  The Cylinder has a movable rear end, which turns to allow the hammer to strike an ejection pin and throw the spent shell out the front.

Haven, Charles T. (Charles Tower), 1904-

A history of the Colt revolver, and the other arms made by Colt's patent fire arms manufacturing company from 1836 to 1940, by Charles T. Haven & Frank A. Belden; with a foreword by Stephen V. Gransay.

New York: W. Morrow & Company, 1940.

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Funniest quotes
« on: July 19, 2005, 02:49:02 PM »
John McClain Die Hard:

Terrorist on top of the table chasing McClain under the table…

Terrorist:  "No more table… Were are you going pal?  Next time you have a chance to kill someone don’t hesitate!

After unloading the entire 9mm clip into the terrorist…

McClain:  "Thanks for the advice..."  8)

General Discussion / Re: Original mono soundtrack???
« on: June 08, 2005, 08:48:25 PM »
Blondie’s adage “every gun makes it’s own tune…” is not true with the remixed version of the film The Good The Bad And The Ugly.  If you listen to the mono version, each gun shot has a distinctive sound and twang to it.  Sometimes even three part sounds such as syllables in a word.  A lot of the ricochets are no longer present as well.  Each shot sounds the same in the remixed version and, imo, takes away from the distinct quality Leone strived to achieve in making movies. 

Click on this link to read were we have previously discussed this topic.

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Best hat in a Western
« on: May 22, 2005, 04:48:14 PM »
That hat is hidious!  Looks like someting out of Queer Eye For The Straight Guy...

Personally I like Hogan's hat out of Two Mules For Sister Sara...

For a Few Dollars More / Re: Monco or Manco?
« on: April 22, 2005, 07:45:21 PM »
This is a quote from the very old Eastwood Board in '99.

"In the old days, we had several threads on the topic of Clint's ambidextrousness ... it seems he is a natural lefty who was made to use his right hand as a child, with the result that he can use either hand for most tasks. But in For a Few Dollars More, the filmmakers actually exploited this ability in a clever way: he does everything with his left hand, except shoot (as though he were saving his right hand just for this most "sacred" task). To underscore this, the name his character was given (in the script, and twice in the film itself), is "Monco" (in the original Italian version of the film), or "Manco" (the Spanish equivalent, which is used in English-language versions). In either language, the word means "maimed" or "mutilated," specifically "one-handed" ... I have had it confirmed to me by Sergio Donati personally (he was one of the screenwriters—uncredited) that they chose this name as an ironic allusion to the fact that he acts as if he were maimed in his right hand, except when there is shooting to be done."

And here is a more recent one from KC on the Eastwood Board:

Clint's character is called "Monco" in the Italian script (and in Italian-dubbed versions of the film). The word "Monco" means exactly what "Manco" means in Spanish, maimed or missing an arm. So, in the English-dubbed versions of the film (because there's no good English equivalent, and it wouldn't make much sense for an American bounty hunter working around the Mexican border to have an Italian moniker), "Monco" became "Manco," on the only two occasions when Eastwood's character is referred to by any name at all.

He wears a leather brace of some sort on his right hand, and he ONLY uses that hand for one thing (but he's very very good at it): shooting. The name was meant as a sardonic allusion to the fact that he acts as if he were maimed in his right hand, except when there is shooting to be done."

Thought I'd just throw them out there...

A Fistful of Dollars / Re: Help with nagging question?
« on: April 17, 2005, 06:45:34 PM »
Some interesting information I found during my research...

There was a Belgian gun called the  Montigny Mitrailleuse which was designed in 1850 and produced in 1869.  Although not a truly automatic machine gun it does have a barrel that resembles Ramons super prototype badass pepperbox gun...  My guess is that the prop masters took the barral off on of these Mitrailleuse's and slaped it on the front of a Maxim...

The Belgian Montigny Mitrailleuse

Ramon's super badass prototype pepperbox gun...

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