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1  Films of Sergio Leone / The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Lost scene - script and pictures on: August 26, 2017, 10:07:15 AM
The only interesting thing in the scene is the very end, that Blondie has noticed that Angel Eyes's men have been following them - leads into the next scene, in the extended cut, in which they try to surprise him but he's not surprised.

More importantly: Before you criticize this seemingly unnecessary scene of dialogue, bear this in mind: In his BRD commentary,  by the scene where AE is discussing the cashbox with the half-soldier, Frayling mentions  that when filmed initially, that half-soldier scene had different dialogue than the one we hear about the cashbox. Frayling says that a different seen elsewhere in the movie explained the business with the cashbox. Later on, after filming, Leone & Co. decided to cut the latter scene,  but since that scene had necessary dialogue about the cashbox, during the dubbing they changed the dialogue in the half-soldier scene to be that  important dialogue about the cashbox

Now that we know the dialogue in this "lost" scene, we know that that was the scene Frayling was referring to. I do not know what the dialogue in the half-solider scene was initially -  perhaps a shooting script is available that could tell it to us but as initially filmed, the dialogue in the "lost scene" was indeed very important. Only after they moved the dialogue to the half-soldier scene did it become "redundant" in the lost scene.

What's the difference between having the dialogue in the half-soldier scene at the beginning of the movie versus having it in this "lost" scene toward the middle or end of the movie? As it is in the finished film, it is in the early half-soldier scene, we know about the details about the cashbox early on; in the way the movie was madeinitially,  the viewer doesn't really fully understand the background of the cashbox and the ambush until much later in the movie.



Very good point. Can I quote you on the blog? I want to put this on there.
2  Films of Sergio Leone / The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Lost scene - script and pictures on: August 24, 2017, 08:03:49 PM
The bragging picnic scene.  Grin
3  Films of Sergio Leone / The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017 on: August 24, 2017, 07:59:52 PM
Did the original 1967 theatrical cut have the three characters intertitles (Good, Bad Ugly) that come up on their intro and exit scenes, in English?
When I first saw the film which was on UK TV in 1976, they were in Italian.

Yes, the English cut had those three titles in English. Each international territory was given virtually the same print with the credit sequence and those titles as separate elements. Interestingly, the length of those titles varies depending on how the distributor decided to splice them in..the Spanish DVD for instance has the longest tuco intro title out of all the cuts, even the Italian. It has about a second more footage at the beginning of the shot resulting in the action of tuco running towards the window being repeated.
4  Films of Sergio Leone / For a Few Dollars More / Re: Feb 2013 German Blu-ray release of Fistful of Dollars/For a Few Dollars More on: August 22, 2017, 04:33:15 PM
About the thunderclap with Manco's appearance.
Is it suppose to be when Clint first lifts his head?

This is how I remember it but I have so many releases where it comes at a different time.

Yes, it's such a iconic moment, it's meant to be on his first look up, we see his face and hear the ominous thunderclap. Somewhere along the line this sync moment got messed up. Might have something to do with the reel end there, some versions of the scene hold until he walks out of frame (almost to the white flash of the camera shutoff) others cut earlier.
5  Films of Sergio Leone / The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017 on: August 17, 2017, 04:39:40 AM
I call it the UA version, cause UA sold it world wide except for Italy. It was not a language specific version.

So there is the Leone version, the Italian one with 178 min (without the grotto scene), and never released on DVD or Blu, and the UA version, the cut one with 162 min (instead of 161 min)

And then we have the 2 home video versions, the MGM version with also 178 min, but still different to the original Italian version, and the Italian one with 175 min.

(What we really need is in fact the Stanton cut, aka as the real deal, aka as the most reasonable one, aka as the most healthy one)

Well...Leone also created the international cut, so calling the Italian cut "Leone's" makes it seem like he had nothing to do with the shorter version. The 178 minute version is usually called the "extended". As for the "Stanton", yes that sounds ideal Smiley
6  Films of Sergio Leone / The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017 on: August 16, 2017, 03:52:03 PM
I think we should start calling it the "English language version' (ELV) instead of "International cut"

I understand that it gets confusing, but the 1967 version was created for all countries outside of Italy, specifically North America/England, France, Germany, and Spain. Leone even supervised the French dubbing himself.
7  Films of Sergio Leone / The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017 on: August 16, 2017, 02:07:37 PM
Anyone looking for the specific differences between Kino's shorter cut and the actual 1967 international cut can find them here:

http://theeditroomfloor.blogspot.ca/2017/08/the-gbu-kino-disc-has-arrived.html
8  Films of Sergio Leone / The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017 on: August 10, 2017, 01:15:19 PM
But of what quality? I think what we're talking about here is something comparable to HD.

The colors are one concern, but the actual tampering with Leone's editing is a greater worry. As Jordan Krug has shown us, all the video versions of GBU since 98 have had the sequencing of Blondie's gun-assembly scene re-worked. There are other problems as well. I, for one, am not a happy camper.

Thanks for the support - just want to clarify one thing, the 98 DVD is the only one (until now) that had the reshuffled and recut version of the scene. The extended cut on blu has always had the longer Italian version of the scene. What kino did was copy the 98 DVD shot for shot, and so they replicated the mistakes of that one version. If they had literally gone one release back to laserdisc (for cutting reference) they would have avoided this issue.
9  Films of Sergio Leone / The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017 on: August 09, 2017, 08:16:55 PM
should I cancel my pre-order just as  a protest?

Honestly, if the SLWB members agree on a strict boycott of this Kino disc - and spread news of the boycott and let Kino know about it - maybe that'll be good for a) revenge purposes ; and b) making it clear to DVD/BRD companies that real fans won't tolerate falsehoods.

Waddaya say? If y'all commit to a boycott, I'll cancel my pre-order.

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm not calling for a boycott, just want people to know what they are buying since Kino is lying on amazon about it being the original cut. I'm still gonna buy it for the extras.
10  Films of Sergio Leone / The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017 on: August 09, 2017, 08:14:05 PM
I agree with you that the best version is longer minus grotto.

But to me, piss is not worth mono.

I'll take the DVD. If I want to hear Frayling's commentary, I'll go with original MGM BRD. Yes, I prefer red faces to piss.

Best BRD color is probably the Mondo, which does not have English audio and has the awful issue with the picture movement) is it called "grading"?) Yeah, we need someone to make a serious fan edit  Wink

It's called "rolling shutter", basically instead of each frame being scanned as one whole piece, strips of the frame are scanned in segments, resulting in a very "digital" look, and the mondo disc has many instances of the "wobbling" effect this causes. Also, each of the glue splices on the negative causes every edit to "jump".
11  Films of Sergio Leone / The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017 on: August 09, 2017, 08:25:11 AM
Just so everyone knows, it's been confirmed that Kino used the 98 DVD as a cutting reference, instead of an actual 1967 international cut. That means their shorter version is not the cut Leone approved in 1967, its a "hybrid" cut that includes many shots from the Italian version, cuts some shots meant to be there, and completely (and needlessly) reorders the entire scene of the gunmen approaching Blondie's hotel room (something a home video editor decided to do in 1998, this reshuffling of the scene is now only on the 98 DVD and the kino disc). We repeatedly told them that the 98 DVD is NOT the 1967 international cut but they ignored us and are still falsely advertising the shorter version as "the original u.s. Theatrical cut". Quite simply, it is not. Disappointing that the home video market doesn't care about actually having a cut of GBU out there that is actually Leone's.
12  Films of Sergio Leone / The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017 on: July 19, 2017, 08:22:21 PM
Of course.
The major artistic difference to CinemaScope (or any other anamorphic process) is the depth of focus possible when filming with TechniScope. The image compositions Leone did together with his cinematographers would NOT have been possible with anamorphic lenses!

Great info Mike - thanks!
13  Films of Sergio Leone / The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017 on: July 19, 2017, 08:21:16 PM
No its not restored.

Kino's representative basically shrugged off this request when it was pointed out it was changed from the original release. They have a really defensive attitude towards anything detail related. Don't expect accuracy unfortunately, we won't be getting Leone's cut.
14  Films of Sergio Leone / The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017 on: July 10, 2017, 11:00:25 AM
Most films on blu don't look like what they did in the theatre, because they're sourced from the negative. Prints are usually at least 2 generations away from the negative, they usually have more contrast, more grain etc, like a photocopy of a photocopy. The one advantage of the degradation is that it hides flaws, a classic example is the wires on the alien spaceships in war of the world's, they were hidden by the generation loss...once the film was scanned from the negative for home video the wires were way too apparent. Same with some of the effects in the Star Wars trilogy etc. for the dollars films some of the cheapness of sets, makeup etc shows through more on home video.

For fod they specifically fixed some flicker issues, film stock flashing issues, some hairs in the gate etc. I'm fine with that because those werent creative decisions, they were flaws from using cheap stock or mistakes made during filming.
15  Films of Sergio Leone / The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017 on: July 10, 2017, 09:49:17 AM
Yeah, it is commonly referred to as the "fort scene", I just blanked on it. While I love that scene, I could sacrifice that for the other ~16 minutes that I really don't care for all that much.

I realize with Leone films that nothing will ever truly be ideal, but I'm just glad that the original US theatrical version isn't going to continue to be ignored/buried. I'm very happy about this news.



This is a question to those with the tech knowledge...was the film stock used for the $ Trilogy kind of cheap? It feels that way, especially when you compare it to the Hollywood westerns of the 50s/60s. Am I wrong to say that this movie will never have a chance of looking nearly as good as stuff like Bad Day at Bad Rock (even though that's a modern western)?


The dollars trilogy were shot on 2p techniscope, which gave you two anamorphicly squeezed frames in the same area you'd only get one frame on traditional 35mm. Essentially you'd get twice the length of footage per roll of film that way...a lot of spaghetti westerns used it because it was cheaper. The reduction in image quality is very small - you can still get a very robust image out of the neg, especially with modern technology. Check out the Italian disc for FOD, fantastic restoration
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