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1  General Information / General Discussion / Re:Do women love Leone too on: March 17, 2003, 02:35:34 AM
yeah its like those genres except some one dumbed it down and made into story titles so that people could see which stories were mixed with each other.  So you could say, oh look that movie is cinderell mixed with robin hood.

Its like genres but with movie or story names
2  General Information / General Discussion / Re:Do women love Leone too on: March 11, 2003, 03:26:53 AM
Well i have failed in my quest to find what i want, but here is something about film theory for you cigar joe

ARISTOTLE'S SIX ELEMENTS of drama are Spectacle, Character, Fable (Plot), Diction, Melody, and Thought. These elements (slightly modified and re-interpreted for contemporary audiences) remain essential to modern films. Aristotle claims that, contrary to what one might expect, Plot or "the form of action" is the most important element. This is because, in Aristotle's view, the purpose of life "is a certain kind of activity" and drama ought to depict certain kinds of activity that we may learn the results of these forms of activities. Aristotle would reject the contemporary view (supported by insidious propaganda that acting is a high art form and by public fascination with the lives of actors) that the depiction of Character is central or most important. His argument: "Character gives us qualities, but it is in our actions -- what we do -- that we are happy or the reverse" (Poetics, 1450a18). "In a play accordingly they do not act in order to portray the Characters; they include the Characters for the sake of the action" (Poetics, 1461a15-20). He concludes that Character comes second (1450b1). It is important, however, to note that Character does interplay with the other elements, and (especially in films) it introduces morality. As Arisitotle says, "...character is what makes us ascribe certain moral qualities to the agents" (1450a4). Third is Thought, and this is not what the character says to reveal elements of the character, but what a character may say regarding important intellectual themes -- "all they say when proving or disproving some particular point, or enunciating some universal proposition." [In contemporary films it is sometimes asserted (with justification in some instances) that the director of the film actually controls "what is said or asserted," not through the dialogue, over which he has limited control, but through subliminal suggestion through the language of images alone. I reject, in part, this theory. See my Seven Mistakes.] Aristotle relegates the other elements to lesser importance in drama. A partial list of these elements, with examples, as they apply to contemporary films:

1. Plot: The Searchers (Horrible event befalls man, man chooses revenge, but finally chooses redemption and forgiveness).

Note: How plot relates to theme and what I call story is a complicated one. It has been argued, correctly, following Aristotle, that there are only few basic plots. If we state the plot of The Searchers as "man chooses revenge against INDIANS, we have a different, more specific understanding of the plot (a specific story). A basic plot and the story which enacts it introduces THEMES. In this case, the POSSIBILITY of forgiveness. These points aide, it remains as true today as in Aristotle's time -- and Hollywood writers generally accept it this -- that a good story (film) MUST have specific "plot points," or moments when the character makes a moral choice. By adhering to this rule, Hollywood writers can be said to accept Aristotle's idea that plot, rather than character, is central. Further complexities of this issue go beyond the scope of my comments here. See my Seven Mistakes and FAQs for more information.

2. Character: Lord of the Rings (Sam, a humble servant, is caught up in a titanic struggle).

3. Thought: "Life is a box of chocolates" (Forrest Gump).

4. Diction: Night of the Iguana, any Shakespeare.

5. Melody: Can be unnoticed (most films), or central to the impact of the Film, e.g., Theme from Star Wars.

6. Spectacle: Visual Impact, feeling of participating in large, grand events. Lord of the Rings, Ben Hur, Spartacus (Spartacus is an excellent example of a film in which all six elements are of high caliber.)

3  General Information / General Discussion / Re:LEONE UNCULTURED? on: March 10, 2003, 08:44:23 AM
(this is a bit of a late reply,) i am not saying that Leone being uncultured was a bad thing, and it does not mean that he can make movies any worse or better, but he may have been uncultured.  and i think we can classify cultured as a broad range of knowledge on the arts and sciences.  although he may have been cultured, i was arguing about what cultured was
4  General Information / General Discussion / Re:Leone influenced your life? on: March 10, 2003, 08:31:19 AM
i couldn't say leone changed my life, but he changed a way of life, he made think about cinema alot more, even to the extent that i would get on the internet to talk about him.
5  General Information / General Discussion / Re:Leone influenced your life? on: March 10, 2003, 08:30:09 AM
i couldn't say leone changed my life, but he changed a way of life, he made think about cinema alot more, even to the extent that i would get on the internet to talk about him.
6  General Information / General Discussion / Re:Any Successful Screenwriters on board? on: March 10, 2003, 08:26:31 AM
is it a secret or can you reveal it to me.  I do have connections, my father being an architect, in the movie buisness.  A strange connection i know, but many of his clients are cheeses from Hollywood and around their.  I don't know if i will be any help as the introduction "yes i met him over the internet," is the worst possible, but i would be fascinated to hear your story plan.  What other screen plays have you had released?
7  General Information / General Discussion / Re:today, Leone? on: March 10, 2003, 08:19:10 AM
Leone was already abandoning this genre,

i agree with this, (it is obvious to all, its no opinion but a fact.)  I feel Leone would have been excellent in doing a romance, or a historical movie set away from America.  Mabye China, Italy or whoknows even dear old Blighty but he spent too long on a country, don't get me wrong a fascinating one, which has very little history.  Leone could have done an epic English Civil War story.  Or even a crouching tiger styled movie (minus all the over the top special effects)
8  General Information / General Discussion / Re:today, Leone? on: March 10, 2003, 08:15:31 AM
The only possible answer is: who knows? We all know that after Gił la testa Leone was going to shoot just the movies he wanted to shoot. He even refused The Godfather

i have to say, that leone would have flopped in comparison to FFC at doing godfather, not because he is the weaker director because the style would have flopped with the story.  i can't explain but i'm delighted he didn't go ahead with it
9  General Information / General Discussion / Re:Do women love Leone too on: March 10, 2003, 08:09:31 AM
Just got another e-mail from the proffesor apparently its six not seven. promise to update soon, its starting to get at my brain, like decartes i need this bloody knowledge
10  Other/Miscellaneous / Off-Topic Discussion / Re: City of God aka Cidade de Deus (2002) on: March 10, 2003, 08:08:01 AM
it will surpass all your expectations my friend. I hate to put too much pressure on the movie.  But sit back forget all my comments and let its brilliance sink.  Do you both live in Paris?
11  General Information / General Discussion / Re:Do women love Leone too on: March 07, 2003, 10:07:35 AM
yeah what is it?
12  General Information / General Discussion / Re:Do women love Leone too on: March 06, 2003, 11:23:59 AM
i did some research and e-mailed a proffesor in something to do with movies and this is what he came up with, intresting but not quite it, i will come search some more though.


"Dear Caius,

Thanks for your question.  Yes, it is a common "truism" about literature and movies that there are only a few plots.  Unfortunately, I cannot recite for you the exact 7 (or whatever) plots that are often cited.  Sometimes the point is made another way: it is said that all movies are just combinations of other movies.  That would be misleading, in my view.  What is meant is that all movies conform to basic plot structures that are EXEMPLIFIED in various other ARCHETYPES of basic plots.  Romeo and Juliet is not a basic plot, but an example of a basic plot.

In my view "a basic plot" has a very simple structure and must be distinguished from "story" and "theme."

A basic plot, in my view mentions no character names, no specific times or locations, and no specific details to the plot. Hence, there are only a few basic plots such as:

1. Boy meets girl.  Boy is rejected by, or cannot get girl.. Boy gets girl in the end.

2. Hero confronts ethical dilemma.  Hero makes wrong choice.  Hero suffers. Hero corrects choice.  Hero is rewarded in end.

These are the "comic" (or  "happy," successful outcome) versions.  Reverse the outcome for tragedy.  That accounts for 4 basic plot structures.

Stories, on the other hand, e.g., Romeo and Juliet, are the SPECIFIC people, and settings in which the plots occur.  Specific stories will be, not basic plots, but examples of basic plots.

Themes are the issues the author deals with: e.g., love and fate, good vs. evil, how God relates to man, etc.

Aristotle lists SEVEN ELEMENTS that are constituents of drama.  These are not plots.  I will list them on my site, perhaps in the next few days.

There is one element that is ALWAYS a part of drama: moral choice.  See #5 under http://www.gis.net/~tbirch/amistakes.html

Another truism is this: all basic plots, as well as many examples of theme in story form, are found in the Bible.  Consider the film "The Matrix" and you will see what I mean.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Regards,

Tony Birch, Ph.D., MCSE"
13  General Information / General Discussion / Re:Do women love Leone too on: March 06, 2003, 04:20:45 AM
well heres how it works:
(i can't really do this properly without the seven movies but i will look into it,)
there are a set seven movies (or stories) which will be like (hypothietically)
cinderella
romeo juliet
etc etc....

and any movie is built up of a combination of these movies.

i will look it up and get back to you
14  Other/Miscellaneous / Off-Topic Discussion / Re: City of God aka Cidade de Deus (2002) on: March 06, 2003, 04:13:05 AM
make sure you see it, please see it, it gasp for more attention, its that good.  Although maybe you won't like it as much as me
15  Other/Miscellaneous / Off-Topic Discussion / Re:Gangs of New York on: March 06, 2003, 04:11:19 AM
i agree with this, the dicaprio/diaz love thing let down the whole movie, very little beliviable love, even lust.  The battle scenes bored me, in fact the whole movie was unlikely and boring.  But I am also not sure wether mcgregor would have done a good job, i would be more inclineded to go with the idea of jude law.  he is a bit girly but he has his dark sides, and he looks like a mean bastard
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