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Sergio Leone News / My first reaction to Leone (and SW)
« on: July 20, 2005, 03:35:01 PM »
I must have been a littlle short of 8 when I first saw FOD. I don't think I ever jumped on the seat in my 15 years career as an addicted movie watcher, but if I ever did it was when Eastwood gets rid in a flash of the 3 goons.  I realized  that precise moment that this was another kind of stuff we'd been feeded from Hollywood. Couldn't get enough of SW from then on. There was only Connery to rival with Eastwood as my ideal hero.

Sergio Leone News / Re: An italian book
« on: July 20, 2005, 03:20:30 PM »
Let us please know what you think of it.

Sergio Leone News / Re: An italian book
« on: July 20, 2005, 07:31:59 AM »
I wouldn't have brought it to the attention of an english-speaking forum were it not a book made up entirely of illustrations with short comments in italian. Of course the promotional material is made up almost entirely of italian sources, Which, being the original ones, are all the more precious. Lobbycards and posters are the most prominent  material.
The description says that it is a history of SW mostly made up of pictures set in chronological order.

General Discussion / Re: Eastwood's other Greatest movies...
« on: July 20, 2005, 04:21:54 AM »
Dirty Harry, Alcatraz, Kelly Heroes (not much of a "Eastwood" movie, though). The Unforgiven: most overrated.

General Discussion / Re: WHERE DO WE COME FROM ?
« on: July 20, 2005, 04:05:14 AM »
Looks like I'm the only one born, raised, living and bound to die (well, I hope so) in Leone's town.

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly / Re: Tuco and the extasy
« on: July 17, 2005, 02:07:12 PM »
About the "penguin" stance, all said.
Just to remark that, though il Biondo is his usual calm and collected self, he forgets too about Sentenza being ahead of him and Tuco.

Sergio Leone News / An italian book
« on: July 17, 2005, 01:18:26 AM »
For whomever cares about original posters, lobbycards, pictures and the rest, this is a must:

How many similarities with DYS? Well many, I'd say. Useful to show all the difference between the master and the others.

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Charlton Heston E-Mail!
« on: July 14, 2005, 12:24:48 PM »
it amazes me that you seem to think you know Eastwood so well. I've read and heard on numerous occasions that most seem to think Eastwood has had two major mentors: Sergio Leone and Don Siegel.

"most", not him. 

There's no reason to believe he doesn't have the utmost respect for either.

No reason at all except his outings.

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Charlton Heston E-Mail!
« on: July 14, 2005, 03:46:02 AM »
You would expect more argumentation and respect? From me?

no, from Eastwood: he should name western and leone in the same breath. which he does not because he wants to convince himself that he is better director than him. And he's not afraid of the ridiculous, as when he says that the poncho was his idea. Anybody here believes that? 

About the rest, I have lots of american friends, who share my opinions.  We should discuss  the american school system, the american values and way of life; but it would be too long and it would lead us nowhere. I'm not saying that "all" americans are like that: I say that, due to some circumstances (historical, ecnomical and so on), a big part of the american population tends to acquire some common traits, without them not even realizing it. Some of these may even be positive, other ones are not. It happens with all the other nations.  But I don't want to start a quarrel on "that". So, if you deem it necessary, you can cancel my post.

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Charlton Heston E-Mail!
« on: July 13, 2005, 03:54:05 PM »
Because of my trade I get in touch daily with many Americans: believe me, that ignorance (usually coupled with arrogance) is not rare.

Eastwood has said that jazz and the western are American art forms (some of the few art forms made within the country, at that), but has never suggested that people outside of the country were incapbable to doing them.

The point is that it’s Eastwood, not somebody else, talking. From one who, had been not for SW, would probably be now only a long forgotten  comma in the history of american tv shows, I would expect some more argumentation. And respect. But, as said, he had his petty, selfish reasons.

And whether *you* think Joe totally distinctive from Rowdy Yates is beside the point: the point is that Clint was a fairly well-known (in the States) face associated w/ westerns, and Leone hired him in part because of that.

No, Leone hired him because he was the only one he could afford. That is history. And the fact that between Rowdy Yates and Joe there are no apparent points in common is, among other effects, the reason why Eastwood became a star instead of remaining an interchangeable face in a tv show due to close three years later.

Heston in general strikes me as having a fair amount of respect for continental filmmakers in general, to the extent that he takes any notice of them, but the idea that he's picking on Leone because he "CAN'T HANDLE" Leone strikes me as silly.

I have also made the hypothesis he may have had a personal grudge against him we don't know about.   

More likely, he's vaguely noticed

"vaguely", you got it.

SW's in general as being, well, the kind of thing Cigar Joe always complains about   , and Leone's movies as being less annoying and more convincing than the other kind, and assumed it was largely due to the cast

he can't "assume", he must have watched them before making his statements. Coburn has watched them and, fairly, objects that they are something else (as they are). And at this point Heston, being cornered, (and where I start to smell his unfairness) not knowing what to reply, does invent the theory that Leone's results are due to american actors, when everybody here knows it is the other way around: Leone launched the careers of half-known american actors and redefined some other ones’ careers, giving each and every one of them them their career’s role: an astonishing result which cannot have escaped Heston attention. But the point it is not that Heston may have his opinions on Leone's westerns: but that he theoretically excludes the chance of a foreign ("foreign") director being able to shoot a western. It is this last, ridiculous statement that shows all his bad faith and jingoism.     

(Leone's approach to directing, like say, Hitchcock's, is very abstract: the actors and characters as part of a larger picture rather than an end in themselves; Heston's made movies like that, but he seems more proud of the ones where he thought the human interest managed to outshine the spectacle).  Also, bear in mind: to someone who's shot historical epics in Spain and Italy, the use of similar locales for westerns would look way more bizarre than it does to you or me.

Still everybody, even among Leone's critics, admits that he is a master at directing. An experienced actor like Heston should have known better and concur at least on that, after the great ones were gone, none of the american directors who made westerns had the stature of the Italian, as much as his westerns may have been different (thank god) from those Hollywood was churning out in the early ‘60’s.

So to a person who likes westerns, doesn't like SWs in general and finds that Leone's are better than the norm, and is not sufficiently into film theory to grasp Leone's directing style, and doesn't find the landscape in and of itself convincing, it makes sense to assume the actors deserve the credit-especially if you are one yourself, and apt to give your profession a little too much credit in general, and happen to like or admire the better-known ppl Leone used. It's an incorrect line of thinking, yes, but it doesn't give you the right to beeline from "so-and-so finds SWs in general unconvincing, and Leone's films somewhat less so in large part because of the casts" to "so-and-so must've had a grudge against Leone, or seen him as a threat to Amerikka's God-given right to cultural imperialism!"  People have misguided opinions on all kinds of movies for all kinds of reasons, and I hate to get all patronizing here, but the mere fact that he didn't "get" a school of movie that's important to you and me, doesn't make him EEEville, ok?

I agree on that. But, then why didn’t he pay attention to what those actors (Fonda, Wallach, Steiger and Coburn: I won’t mention Eastwood, for the reasons quoted above) were saying about Leone? When Fonda said that Leone was the best director he had ever worked with, well, that it may have sounded strange at that time: now we all know that he meant it and that he must also have realized that Frank’s was the best role of his already magnificient career. Did Heston never talked about this with him? Let me have some doubt about it. Expecially as he couldn’t but admit that Fonda knew about western movies 2 or 3 things more than him. Actually I think that it is just what his more experienced colleagues were telling him that justifies his violent and irrational reaction against Leone: he knows he has no arguments and becomes apodyptical: foreigners can’t do westerns: that’s that and you better be content with that explanation.

Or are you gonna call me stupid and parochial because I don't particularly care for Leone's FOURTH western, hmm?

I don't either, and I wrote that in this forum. The ones I like best are FAFDM and GBU. Still I like this movie better than any other western made in the USA after it, though maybe I like DYS even best.

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Charlton Heston E-Mail!
« on: July 13, 2005, 03:59:18 AM »
Actually, no.
The western IS an American art form, because America has an "old west."

So what is, say, Shakespeare doing with ancient Roman stories? And why, as Leone used to say, Hollywood is making films on Ancient Rome (and, I add, onevery period of western world history)? Why don't they stick to USA history?

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Charlton Heston E-Mail!
« on: July 12, 2005, 12:55:34 PM »
You're quoting him out of context-he essentially says that the Western is so quintessentially American that no "outsider" can capture it,

Among another million things, the existence of this site proves him dead wrong.

and that Leone's semi-success


was due to him hiring actors already strongly associated with the Western (he names only Eastwood and Fonda, the former a well-known tv western star by the time of Fistful-he's not talking about anybody Leone could claim to have "discovered".

Well, I'm speechless. I never could see a single installment of Rawhide (Don't know if it ever was televised in my country, I presume not and can't find a p2p to dl it from) but going only by the pics of Eastwood in that show and the kind of character he impersonated (in the resumé found in the frayling's book), you (or Chuck) have just to watch the first 2 minutes of FOD to understand that Eastwood was created then and there in Spain.  But this is history, everybody knows it, expecially here.

Beyond the presumption that he's sat thru GBU, High Noon and Liberty Valance at some point in his life, I'm not entirely sure Chuck was even aware of LVC's existence).

I was going by heart, pardon my mistake. But of course he didn't nominate him: it didn't square at all with his "theories".

I don't see it as a diss on Leone's skill or morality the way alot of comments from makers of American Westerns about Leone were, just a statement that this is a genre non-Americans simply couldn't "get", in his opinion.

And dead wrong at that, that's what I'm saying. OUTIW proves that Leone could shoot a classic western as good, if not better, than any of the masters. That rankles with some americans, that italians can do tipically american things as good if not better than them.  What I'm saying is that Heston with his blabber was settling some kind of account with Leone or, worse, was simply being fatuously nationalistic. 

f a Japanese guy said that gaijin (foreigners) just didn't have the mental/cultural equipment to make effective Samurai movies, and that the only thing that gave "The Last Samurai" any credibility at all was Ken Watanabe, would you therefore assume that he was calling director Edward Zwick inherently incompetent in his line of work?.

I never saw the film, which apparently was bad. But this is a false argumentation. Me, as a viewer can watch samurai movies and judge them from my pov as good or bad without caring for who the author is, a gajin or an african.
For western it goes the same way. "Charleston" (as roman kids called him when shooting Ben Hur) cannot change reality, which says that american viewers watched and watch any Leone's movie as an american western, probably not knowing it was shot in Europe by a Roman. That it was L. who made Eastwood (and Van Cleef) a star. And that he single-handedly changed the way western movies were made in USA from then on.

Even Clint Eastwood referred to Westerns as one of the only true American art forms.

Because he knows that Leone's movies are unapprochable, as to quality, by his own american made westerns. So he tries to have Leone's out of the scene. He can cope with Corbucci, Sollima, Parolini all the time, but Leone just doesn't fit in these jingoistic baloney. Or do we want to say that better western were made after Leone's, in the USA? 

Off-Topic Discussion / Re: Submit your Top 10 movies,Leone et al.
« on: July 12, 2005, 12:09:10 PM »
in no order at all, the first ones that come to mind:

Bellissima (Visconti)
Il giovedì (Dino Risi)
La dolce vita
Paisà (Rossellini)
I vitelloni (Fellini)
Mary Poppins
Le carrosse d'or (Renoir)
Accattone (Pasolini)
The Band Wagon

Once Upon A Time In The West / Re: Pure Beauty************
« on: July 11, 2005, 10:39:05 AM »
never liked her, i know i'm unpopular on this subject, but never could connect to her being beautiful. Maybe is because I can't relate her to sex, she gives me the impression of being indifferent to it. She doesn't strike me like other actresses, could name millions, working more or less in the same era: Raquel Welch, Ornella Muti or my absolute all-time favourite B.B. Of course I know I'm wrong: her amazing filmography is there to prove thatl very important directors (who certainly have a keener eye than mine for beauty) saw what you see in her.

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