DYS soundtrack comparison

[drinkanddestroy]

From my knowledge, except for the gunshots: yes.

aiight. well I ain't that much of a Leone nerd to worry about that too much 

[cigar joe]

aiight. well I ain't that much of a Leone nerd to worry about that too much 

yet.....

[drinkanddestroy]

I have a hard time with the music, its easier with the gunshots and edited curses, but I have a harder time noticing subtle differences in the music, especially DYS which like DD I haven't watched nearly as much as the others (save OUTIA). Even with those comparisons is the music just not starting at the right spot in the film or is it actually different..

in the final flashback, the song that plays on the Original Version and on the Special Edition are similar (the main theme or some variation thereof); however, on the SE it stops and re-starts in middle, which imposes a completely different meaning of that scene. Here is that link again that shows the two different versions of the final flashback http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOc13iAmXPc (the OV is first, followed by the SE).

In the OV, the song plays continuously, even as Sean passes the girl off to Nolan. IMO, this signals Sean's approval (if perhaps a bit grudging) of Nolan's love for his girl. Of course, as we see earlier, there is understandably some slight tension there, but overall they are all close friends and are relatively accepting of the love triangle. This fits well with Sean's final smile in the flashback (ie. indicating his peace with the situation), and further emphasizes what good friends they were and therefore the depth of Nolan's betrayal.

However, in the SE, the idiots at the studio stop the music after Sean finishes kissing the girl, and re-start it when Nolan begins doing the same; this would indicate that rather than one relatively harmonious love triangle, there is very significant tension between them cuz of the love triangle; therefore Sean's final smile in that flashback makes no sense

[dave jenkins]

In the OV, the song plays continuously, even as Sean passes the girl off to Nolan. IMO, this signals Sean's approval (if perhaps a bit grudging) of Nolan's love for his girl. Of course, as we see earlier, there is understandably some slight tension there, but overall they are all close friends and are relatively accepting of the love triangle. This fits well with Sean's final smile in the flashback (ie. indicating his peace with the situation), and further emphasizes what good friends they were and therefore the depth of Nolan's betrayal.

However, in the SE, the idiots at the studio stop the music after Sean finishes kissing the girl, and re-starts it when Nolan begins doing the same; this would indicate that rather than one relatively harmonious love triangle, there is very significant tension between them cuz of the love triangle; therefore Sean's final smile in that flashback makes no sense

Excellent points! 

[Novecento]

iHowever, in the SE, the idiots at the studio stop the music after Sean finishes kissing the girl, and re-start it when Nolan begins doing the same; this would indicate that rather than one relatively harmonious love triangle, there is very significant tension between them cuz of the love triangle; therefore Sean's final smile in that flashback makes no sense

I don't understand why studios mess around with audio like this.

Why do we have to wait for Scorcese to ensure we get the correct closing music to OUATITW for example?

[drinkanddestroy]

I don't understand why studios mess around with audio like this.

Why do we have to wait for Scorcese to ensure we get the correct closing music to OUATITW for example?

1. CUZ THE STUDIO PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS! They think they can improve the work of the Master. But YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY IMPROVE PERFECTION!

2. I once heard something about the closing music in OUATITW being different; but if that is the case, I do not think I ever actually heard the original one.

So let me get this straight, once and for all: Are you saying that on the dvd we have of OUATITW, the closing music is different than it was originally intended by Leone; but Scorcese has now discovered and restored the original? (If yes, can someone post a link to the proper ending music?)
Thanks  

[stanton]

Yes, the closing music is wrong on the Paramount DVDs based on the English master. But again, it doesn't hurt the film.

At some point it changes from the America (or Jill) theme to the Cheyenne theme, which doesn't make any sense, while in the original version the America theme goes on until the end.


And in case you don't know, the opening scene is about 1 min shorter than it should be. I never checked if there are further small cuts, which is possible.

[The clint]

Yes, the closing music is wrong on the Paramount DVDs based on the English master. But again, it doesn't hurt the film.

At some point it changes from the America (or Jill) theme to the Cheyenne theme, which doesn't make any sense, while in the original version the America theme goes on until the end.

I'm sorry, but this isn't entirely correct. Both English and Italian versions switch to Cheyenne's theme during the credits, it just so happens that the credits come later in the Italian version. There's no way they can alter the English version to resemble the Italian version unless they were to re-do both the title and end-credits, or just use the Italian title and credits.

For reference, here is the Italian finale, title and end credits sequence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znfd98Qv7f8

[drinkanddestroy]

The AWESOME article posted here http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10564.0  should explain everything about the various versions of OUATITW

[stanton]

I'm sorry, but this isn't entirely correct. Both English and Italian versions switch to Cheyenne's theme during the credits, it just so happens that the credits come later in the Italian version. There's no way they can alter the English version to resemble the Italian version unless they were to re-do both the title and end-credits, or just use the Italian title and credits.

For reference, here is the Italian finale, title and end credits sequence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znfd98Qv7f8

You can read the thread which d&d has linked above. Everything is there about the differences.

But in short:

The America theme is played to the end (just like on the soundtrack) in the Italian version. Then follows the Cheyenne theme as exit music over black screen (that's if a cinema then has played exit music), but it is not directly part of the film. The Youtube video shows the long Italian version (which is imo not a DC) which plays the exit music over a freeze frame, but still after the film has already ended.

The Paramount version replaces the last part of the America theme with the Cheyenne music, which is wrong. And it is a bit disappointing that they still haven't changed it for the Blu Ray release. And that the Scorsese restoration didn't either.

[The clint]

The Youtube video shows the long Italian version (which is imo not a DC) which plays the exit music over a freeze frame, but still after the film has already ended.

It is indeed a freeze-frame, but the credits are rolling over it so it can hardly be called "exit music". Do you mean that the original Italian cut didn't feature any end credits?

And this happens to be the only Italian version I've ever encountered... How long is the Italian cut you consider a DC and how can I obtain it?

[stanton]

I still consider the original Italian theatrical version as the DC. Same version which was released in Germany and France and probably in any other country where it was released uncut. According to the Video Watchdog article linked above this was also the original US and UK version, before several scenes were cut out (but partly different ones in both countries).
This version runs about 165 min + 2:30 min exit music over a black screen. This exit music was never part of the German version, which I have seen about 15 - 20 times in the theatres since 1980. The last time 3 years ago on a very big screen.
In this version the credits start earlier (similar to the Paramount version) than in the 177 min Italian version you are referring too. The credits end when the music ends and the screen goes black. This long version is interesting to watch, but I think the film works better in the 165 min version.

Unfortunately in Italy the 177 min was the one released on DVD, and in the rest of the world only the Paramount version is distributed since the mid 90s. Which means that the original theatrical version was so far never released on DVD, but still plays in the theatres here in Germany, and maybe in other countries. And as the situation is it probably will never get released.
The Video Watchdog article tells you how it (most likely) could happen that the Paramount version is not completely identical to the original version. It is a good version, but not the best possible.

[drinkanddestroy]

I'm generally not a stickler for staying on topic, but since this discussion of OUATITW endings is a continuation of important discussions on this issue that have been going on here, I'd suggest that this conversation be continued here, where this stuff has been discussedd http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10219.150   or on the thread with the scanned article here http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10564.0     (and perhaps before you continue it on one of those threads, you'd also wanna copy these posts here and pasting them there).

Just a suggestion, cuz this is an important issue and it would be helpful for members to be able find it if it's in a properly labeled thread 

[drinkanddestroy]

Excellent points!  

these points -- which are indeed excellent -- are not my own; I am basically repeating something I read (maybe on a post on these boards?) but I can't recall where

[stanton]

I'm generally not a stickler for staying on topic, but since this discussion of OUATITW endings is a continuation of important discussions on this issue that have been going on here, I'd suggest that this conversation be continued here, where this stuff has been discussedd http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10219.150   or on the thread with the scanned article here http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10564.0     (and perhaps before you continue it on one of those threads, you'd also wanna copy these posts here and pasting them there).

Just a suggestion, cuz this is an important issue and it would be helpful for members to be able find it if it's in a properly labeled thread  

Yes, if there is something more to discuss we should do it here: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10219.150

But so far nothing was said which wasn't already discussed there.

@ the Clint: on page 8 of that threas you find 3 YouTube links which show you the differences between the German theatrical version and the Paramount version. Amongst them the original ending.