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Author Topic: DYS soundtrack comparison  (Read 41145 times)
The clint
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« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2011, 10:11:08 AM »

@ the Clint: on page 8 of that threas you find 3 YouTube links which show you the differences between the German theatrical version and the Paramount version. Amongst them the original ending.

Wow, thanks for that, seems my homework for OUATITW was somewhat lacking. I stand corrected.

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uncknown
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« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2012, 04:11:05 PM »

in the final flashback, the song that plays on the Original Version and on the Special Edition are similar (the main theme or some variation thereof); however, on the SE it stops and re-starts in middle, which imposes a completely different meaning of that scene. Here is that link again that shows the two different versions of the final flashback http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOc13iAmXPc (the OV is first, followed by the SE).

In the OV, the song plays continuously, even as Sean passes the girl off to Nolan. IMO, this signals Sean's approval (if perhaps a bit grudging) of Nolan's love for his girl. Of course, as we see earlier, there is understandably some slight tension there, but overall they are all close friends and are relatively accepting of the love triangle. This fits well with Sean's final smile in the flashback (ie. indicating his peace with the situation), and further emphasizes what good friends they were and therefore the depth of Nolan's betrayal.

However, in the SE, the idiots at the studio stop the music after Sean finishes kissing the girl, and re-start it when Nolan begins doing the same; this would indicate that rather than one relatively harmonious love triangle, there is very significant tension between them cuz of the love triangle; therefore Sean's final smile in that flashback makes no sense

People!
The final 'flashback' is not a flashback - it is a symbolic fantasy.
The 'Colleen' symbolises Ireland and the two Seans represent a united Ireland free of strife.
Sean is imagaining what might have been, not what was
bruce

ps Morricone wrote alot of music for DYS , much of which was not used in the film. Some of the music was not written directly to picture so that Leone had some discretion in placement. "After the Explosion" is merely the title EM gave the piece he had written. Leone never used it for the end credits in any version I know of.

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drinkanddestroy
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« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2012, 10:35:40 PM »

People!
The final 'flashback' is not a flashback - it is a symbolic fantasy.
The 'Colleen' symbolises Ireland and the two Seans represent a united Ireland free of strife.
Sean is imagaining what might have been, not what was
bruce

ps Morricone wrote alot of music for DYS , much of which was not used in the film. Some of the music was not written directly to picture so that Leone had some discretion in placement. "After the Explosion" is merely the title EM gave the piece he had written. Leone never used it for the end credits in any version I know of.

Even if it is true that the final Ireland scene is just Sean imagining what might have been, rather than flashing back to an actual scene from his youth, that doesn't change my point about the music: the new version, in which the music stops once Sean is done with the girl, and starts up again once Nolan starts kissing her, indicates friction and a lack of harmony between the two, which is not the way that the scene is meant to be interpreted, as evidenced by that final smile. So that new music is absolutely wrong.

Most importantly of all, even setting aside the interpretation of that scene, is WHY THE FUCK WOULD THEY CHANGE LEONE'S WORK. He had made the movie with that music there at the time, and there is absolutely no reason to change it   Angry.   I have yet to see one case of a studio changing Leone's work and coming up with a better result.

(Even the one scene from a Leone movie that most Leone fans agree really is a bad scene and should be elominated -- the scene in GBU of Tuco in the cave -- was actually removed by Leone himself. According to the special features on the GBU  SE dvd), that scene only screened one time: it was at the Rome premiere, and after that premiere, Leone himself removed it before the movie's theatrical release. So even in the long European version, that scene was not in the movie; it was only restored by that *&^%$#@ from MGM for the SE  in 2003; I thankfully forgot his name. As he said on the special features, he felt he could justify putting it in there cuz it actually was shown once, even though LEONE HIMSELF REMOVED IT BEFORE WIDE RELEASE. What a cocksucker. He should have just put it into the special features).

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« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2012, 12:46:07 AM »

I am not sure which cue belongs at the end of DYS because i never saw the unedited version until the se dvd. But,  i think the best answer would come from the French version.
Leone was revered in France and I believe DYS played there UNCUT in its initial run.
After Leone's death it was re-released in DOlby Stereo. This version can be heard on the MGM special edition FRENCH audio track and is far superior to John Jerk's version.
The music used in the English se can be heard on the GDM 2 cd release - the running time matches the scene so it is possible this is the score wriitten for the scene.
who knows?
bruce

ps John Jerk is the devil! Evil

« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 12:49:40 AM by uncknown » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2012, 03:04:04 AM »

I am not sure which cue belongs at the end of DYS because i never saw the unedited version until the se dvd. But,  i think the best answer would come from the French version.
Leone was revered in France and I believe DYS played there UNCUT in its initial run.
After Leone's death it was re-released in DOlby Stereo. This version can be heard on the MGM special edition FRENCH audio track and is far superior to John Jerk's version.
The music used in the English se can be heard on the GDM 2 cd release - the running time matches the scene so it is possible this is the score wriitten for the scene.
who knows?
bruce

ps John Jerk is the devil! Evil

 I've never listened to any audio other than the English one that plays standard on the SE dvd. Is the music on the non-English audio tracks the same as the English one?

Yes, John Jerk is a cocksucker

---------------

Also, besides for the fact that in the SE, the song stops and then re-starts i he final flashback as previously discussed; it is a totally different song that plays! They are both some sort of variation on the main theme, but it is a FAR better song that plays in the original.

I don't know if both are from the original soundtrack composed by Morricone, or if one is spliced together from pieces of the songs, but I do know that it is a much better song that plays on the second one.

I am no good with technology, but if anyone does fan edits that can sell me one I'd be glad to pay for it a good edit of this movie. PM me  Smiley

« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 03:46:27 AM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2012, 11:01:51 AM »

The final flashback music that plays in the sedvd is how Morricone composed and conducted it.
Since it seems to follow the aCTION , it is probably the correct music.
For me, the difference does not change the meaning of the scene at all
bruce

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« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2012, 02:58:43 PM »

The final flashback music that plays in the sedvd is how Morricone composed and conducted it.
Since it seems to follow the aCTION , it is probably the correct music.
For me, the difference does not change the meaning of the scene at all
bruce

In terms of the slight change, I agree that it does not alter much. However, D&D's point below is a very good one which I agree does significantly alter the mood:

in the final flashback, the song that plays on the Original Version and on the Special Edition are similar (the main theme or some variation thereof); however, on the SE it stops and re-starts in middle, which imposes a completely different meaning of that scene. Here is that link again that shows the two different versions of the final flashback http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOc13iAmXPc (the OV is first, followed by the SE).

In the OV, the song plays continuously, even as Sean passes the girl off to Nolan. IMO, this signals Sean's approval (if perhaps a bit grudging) of Nolan's love for his girl. Of course, as we see earlier, there is understandably some slight tension there, but overall they are all close friends and are relatively accepting of the love triangle. This fits well with Sean's final smile in the flashback (ie. indicating his peace with the situation), and further emphasizes what good friends they were and therefore the depth of Nolan's betrayal.

However, in the SE, the idiots at the studio stop the music after Sean finishes kissing the girl, and re-start it when Nolan begins doing the same; this would indicate that rather than one relatively harmonious love triangle, there is very significant tension between them cuz of the love triangle; therefore Sean's final smile in that flashback makes no sense

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« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2012, 07:37:01 PM »

On the other hand, if uncknown is correct and the version of the music that plays on the SE is the correct one, then the studio are idiots for switching it in the original version. Whether the music is continuous; or whether stops and then starts again when Nolan takes the girl from Sean; definitely imply a different meaning on the scene.


uncknown: why do you say that the version of the music in the SE is the correct one? Is it just because that version is on the double-cd soundtrack and cuz it lasts for the same length of time as that flashback (or fantasy or whatever you wanna call it) does? If that is so, then why did the original version -- in which, so far as I can tell, that flashback/fantasy is the SAME LENGTH, put music on there that was different than what you say Leone intended?

« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 06:20:38 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2012, 03:13:16 PM »

You are assuming that the You Tube version is the original one.
I  believe the poster simply dubbed/overlayed  the music he THOUGHT was used in the original version.
THE FINAL FLASHBACK was severely shortened by the distributors in the various countries it played. Leone complained that even in ITALY it was shortened.
Unless one saw the film when it was originally released in a country that did not shorten it, there is no way of knowing for sure.
I  am going to surmise the se is correct for the reasons stated;
1. It is the same on the French audio which is taken from a composite mix (although it is POSSIBLE Jerk played around with it, I doubt it)
2. the Morricone piece is exactly the same length and seems to match the action e.g. the way it fades out with the picture

Christopher Frayling might know - ask him! Grin
brucer

« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 03:21:00 PM by uncknown » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2012, 05:18:15 PM »

2. the Morricone piece is exactly the same length and seems to match the action e.g. the way it fades out with the picture

The music is very different in the second version after James Coburn lets his friend kiss the girl. In the first version the same music just continues throughout until the fade.

Does the Morricone piece match the length of the first or second one?

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« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2012, 06:23:50 PM »

the one called the "original version" is (according to the one who posted it on YouTube) the one from the UK and Italian dvd's

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« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2012, 04:46:10 PM »

 is the dvd with the "original version" of he DYS soundtrack (ie. the UK dvd) available anywhere in America?


btw, I was reading DVD Savant's review on The Sergio Leone Anthology set, and for whatever it's worth, Glen Erickson seems to believe that the music was not fucked around with. See the DYS review on bottom of the page at this link http://www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/s2331leon.html


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« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2012, 01:22:04 PM »

is the dvd with the "original version" of he DYS soundtrack (ie. the UK dvd) available anywhere in America?




no
it was released on laser previously with the shorter flashback ending

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« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2012, 11:19:02 PM »

For some further discussion on the music in the final flashback, see http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=5936.msg157962#msg157962
To summarize very briefly what I discuss extensively in that post: Glenn Erickson points out that the music stops and starts (in the SE dvd) during that final flashback, as proof of the tension in the love triangle; but he makes no mention of the existence of different music on the old UK dvd, which is continuous throughout that flashback. But if the stop/start version of the music is correct, and there is indeed tension in the love triangle, how do you explain Coburn's smile at the end of that flashback? Erickson acknowledges that problem and just says that it is "ambiguous."

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« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2012, 03:35:04 AM »

The old DVD did not had that flashback ending. It was the SE which showed this ending for the first time.

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