But the answer is no longer definitive. It's not necessarily NOT a D.C. It's a grey area...why would Leone keep a scene in his own print in if he personally wanted it out? I agree with you that it was not included in the release version - but maybe somebody else made him cut it from that. This is the first evidence I've heard that argues for the rising scene being included. Maybe this is the conclusion Scorsese et al came to. I guess we'll never know what Leone would consider the definitive version.
I was just reacting to the idea that this other cut was "Leone's Personal print" which I've never read described as such except for this new quote from the french book, published in 1971 (only a couple years after the film) where the author had personal interaction with Leone and was able to watch "Leone's cut". You're right in assuming it was probably a workprint or unfinished version...however it must have been somewhat finished as they were able to pull a decent enough print to make the Italian dvd's in 1995. On page 43 Ferrini writes: "It should be kept in mind that Leone's personal print is slightly longer than the theatrical release. It has two scenes which were not added. The first one showing Harmonica rising after being wounded at the train station. This scene was not in the original script and we publish now the description based on Leone's personal print. The second one is about Brett McBains hunting scene with his son Timmy; it's much longer and detailed compared to the commercial release.
How long and detailed is this Video Watchdog article? And the hunting scene respective the complete scene with McBain's family is in all versions the same.
It's very detailed and explores the "6 versions" of OATITW as it has existed in US prints. I would consider it the definitive word on the US cuts, but not the international, it does not really have any info on italian/german/french prints. Maybe when I get a chance I can scan it for everyone, it's very informative.
The player without the new screen isn't really worth it. You won't see the increased resolution if you don't have something that displays it.
A scan would be great
Thanks much for posting the scans, Jordan. I have begun reading it already and plan to finish it soon; it is much appreciated No problem, it puts into print a lot of what's been debated over the years..I downloaded a BR rip of the film this morning (and it's preceded by the new restoration card so I know its genuine) so even though I don't have the BR itself, I took a quick look and maybe I can answer some of your questions, although until I have the actual BR I won't be 100% sure...I've also read many of the reviews which is how I can answer your questions about the bonus features etc. I wondering whether anyone who has seen the new BR can please answer the following questions for me (I apologize if they have been answered on this board previously; don't recall seeing them answered anywhere here, and I have not found any helpful discussions on Amazon or imdb either). Here goes:1) My understanding is that the new BR has both the 165-minute version we have currently seen on the Paramount release, plus the Scorcese longer version. Is this correct? Yes, contrary to what was reported confusingly on thedigitalbits, this is what the blu ray has. 2) what special features are included on the BR in addition to whatever is on the Paramount release? (I checked Amazon and it doesn't list the special features).No NEW features. Only all the old dvd features have been ported over (and in sd, not HD)3) specifically, I want to know if any commentaries offered in addition to the one already offered on the Paramount dvd? One big problem I have with the Paramount dvd is the commentaries. Rather than having Frayling -- probably the most knowledgeable person ever on Leone -- deliver the entire commentary, there is a hodgepodge of people delivering commentary various parts of the movie, some better than others, but it doesn't flow very well. They should have had Frayling do it himself, beginning to end. Does Frayling and/or anyone else deliver a feature-length audio commentary on the BR in addition to the commentary that can be found on the Paramount dvd?Same commentary, I agree, I'd rather just have Frayling. 4) on Amazon, the BR is listed as having an aspect ratio of 1.85:1. Is that indeed the aspect ratio of the BR disc? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me they did not chop the sides of the movie for the BR. PLEASE No, it's 2:35 - the proper aspect. 3) Does the Scorcese version end with the "Finale" music (as I understand Leone intended), or does it end with "Farewell to Cheyenne" playing over the closing credits as in the dvd?Ugh!!!, it ends like the DVD. Damn it, another chance to fix it and they blew it again.
For instance in Oreste De Fornari's Sergio Leone book, it says: "Some scenes were originally longer than in the release version: Harmonica gets up again after the opening duel; the Mcbains return from the hunt just before the massacre; Harmonica tails Wobbles to Morton's private railway car. These scenes were put back into the edition restored in 1995 under the direction of Clavier Salizzato, with the assistance of Sergio leone Production Telepiu, Centro Sperimentale di Cinematografia Cinceteca Nazionale. It is 11 minutes longer than the original."In that book it's not implied that it's Leone's cut.