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Author Topic: 'West' blu ray May 31  (Read 53404 times)
dave jenkins
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« Reply #105 on: June 08, 2011, 12:30:24 PM »

Wow, JK, good work. You have infinitely more patience than I do. Afro

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Lil Brutto
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« Reply #106 on: June 08, 2011, 12:33:12 PM »

The way the video watchdog article describes it, the credits roll over the shot of H and C riding off into the distance, the shot ends at the end of the finale music. It goes to black, the paramount logo comes up and then the reprise of Cheyanne's theme continues over black for 2:32 seconds.

If that's the case, I actually prefer the ending of the Italian DVDs. The magnificent panoramic shot from Jill serving the crew to H and C riding off into the distance would be significantly obstructed by the rolling credits. I'm quite happy to have Cheyenne's theme play during the rolling credits immediately after the screen freezes, which happens after the "finale" has ended and the title is gone.

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« Reply #107 on: June 08, 2011, 12:39:26 PM »

revised and modified my original post to list a couple more small differences. (page 7)

« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 12:53:21 PM by Jordan Krug » Logged
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« Reply #108 on: June 08, 2011, 12:41:07 PM »

If that's the case, I actually prefer the ending of the Italian DVDs. The magnificent panoramic shot from Jill serving the crew to H and C riding off into the distance would be significantly obstructed by the rolling credits. I'm quite happy to have Cheyenne's theme play during the rolling credits immediately after the screen freezes, which happens after the "finale" has ended and the title is gone.

I hear what you're saying. The music is the most important thing and at least they got that right. Paramount did not...

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stanton
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« Reply #109 on: June 08, 2011, 12:57:22 PM »



So, the proper version will have NO freeze frame, and Cheyennes music should never be over picture of any kind, only black as "exit music". 



Yeah, but that's the 177 min, which is not the theatrical version. It doesn't make much of a difference for me, but the Paramount has it right (except for the audio), and it is better left off any DVD. The film should end with the last tone of the Finale.

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Jordan Krug
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« Reply #110 on: June 08, 2011, 01:01:38 PM »

Yeah, but that's the 177 min, which is not the theatrical version. It doesn't make much of a difference for me, but the Paramount has it right (except for the audio), and it is better left off any DVD. The film should end with the last tone of the Finale.

No, I'm referring to the 165 min U.S. premiere cut as described in the video watchdog article. (page 5 of that article)

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stanton
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« Reply #111 on: June 08, 2011, 01:08:26 PM »

Oh yes, my mistake. I referred to the quote by Honest Farmer in your post. Stupid form me, as you had already answered it.

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Jordan Krug
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« Reply #112 on: June 08, 2011, 01:19:26 PM »

No worries Stanton! Did you see my question to you in the differences list on page 7 about the german version?

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stanton
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« Reply #113 on: June 08, 2011, 01:29:26 PM »

These are the new additions to the Scorsese cut vs. the last U.S.A paramount dvd cut:

The Scorsese adds just two shots to the opening (before rising) and extends a third. After the train has arrived and the train guy throws the parcel off, there are a few shots, then Woody Strode smiles over at Jack Elam.

1. There is a NEW shot of Jack Elam smiling back
2. then a NEW shot of him drumming on his gun. A FLY buzzes around his hand. Smiley In the italian version we hear a fly buzz on this shot, here it's not there (or not as prevalent)
3. It then cuts back to the C.U. shot of Elam where he leaves frame although the beginning of that is EXTENDED and has him shaking his head before he motions to leave with a tilt of his head (and then leaves frame as in the U.S. cut).

This is similar to a sequence of shots in the extended Italian version except the Italian version has an extra shot of the train in between those 3 shots.

The RISING scene now has a couple extended shots.

4. When Harmonica brings his arm over to sling it, the beginning of that shot is now extended to show him moving parts of his jacket around first.
5. The last shot of the scene is also extended -he puts his gun in the bag and then the extended shot holds on his boots walking off frame (the U.S. cut ends with him picking up his bag)

This is exactly how the rising scene plays out in the extended italian cut.

6. Just before the the CU shot of the father at the well, the daughter turns to react to the cicadas going quiet - her reaction is a second longer in the Scorsese cut (this seems odd but I checked it multiple times) The italian cut also has the extra second.
7. Paramount logo comes up 2 or 3 seconds later at the end of the Scorsese cut

Total new footage added : 19-21 seconds. (depending if you count the new black before the paramount logo at the end- which I am)

NO other differences from beginning to end, I checked the whole thing. So they must be counting the new title card at the beginning as part of the 39 seconds- it is 18 seconds including the black between it and the paramount logo. That puts the count at 39ish seconds (close enough to 39 to have it make sense I think - I did not do exact frame counts)

So really we got 19 seconds of new footage, not 39. Why that particular 19 seconds was chosen is a mystery to me.



Stanton, what is the sequence with the new Jack Elam cuts in the german tv version - does it cut like the Scorsese cut as I described or does it have the additional P.O.V. of the train in between those cuts like the longer italian version?

Yes it is in. For this sequence the Paramount is indeed pretty rushed.

The 177 min adds a panning shot along the train and another close up of Elam just before the shot with Elam tipping at his holster.

Scorsese has restored the superfluous Rising scene. Incredible ...

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Jordan Krug
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« Reply #114 on: June 08, 2011, 01:52:33 PM »

Yes it is in. For this sequence the Paramount is indeed pretty rushed.

The 177 min adds a panning shot along the train and another close up of Elam just before the shot with Elam tipping at his holster.

Scorsese has restored the superfluous Rising scene. Incredible ...

You're right, I missed the other cu in the italian cut and have revised my post. The fact that the old german cut (which is for arguments sake the "original" cut of the opening scene) has these 3 new Scorsese shots in proper sequence without the two Italian added shots in between gives me hope that they found and used another "original" cut as a basis for the restoration...but then why doesn't it include the rest of the original cut of the opening sequence...very very strange, unless Scorsese himself said "I like those 3 shots from the original cut, let's leave those in and dump the rest." Or perhaps there was print damage or lost negative for the other shots? I wish there was somebody to contact for this sort of thing...

And it is funny that the rising scene is now LONGER Smiley instead of gone...


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« Reply #115 on: June 08, 2011, 01:57:01 PM »

And it is funny that the rising scene is now LONGER Smiley instead of gone...

LOL  Grin

Good work by the way JK. When I finally get to watch my copy I'll know exactly what to look out for!

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stanton
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« Reply #116 on: June 08, 2011, 02:09:49 PM »

Yes, very good work Jordan.


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Jordan Krug
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« Reply #117 on: June 08, 2011, 02:14:01 PM »

I actually found what I believe to be a version of the "original 1968 cut" on youtube - this is a german dubbed version, with Turkish subtitles, but it is definitely not the same cut as either the paramount or the italian longer version - it HAS the 3 new Scorsese shots in the right sequence, it DOES NOT have the rising scene AND the end plays out the music properly and does not freezeframe!

Opening segment with more shots then U.S. but less then italian (which we know to be the formula for the "original" cut) - the new shots in this cut match exactly what the video watchdog article describes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxW0eKr-brE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

end of opening segment - NO rising scene (new Scorsese shots are at :48 seconds)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9kxMs_4m4g&feature=channel_video_title

end title:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu1OXkyt1Kw&feature=relmfu

This person actually has the whole cut posted...





« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 02:58:47 PM by Jordan Krug » Logged
stanton
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« Reply #118 on: June 08, 2011, 03:10:10 PM »



6. Just before the the CU shot of the father at the well, the daughter turns to react to the cicadas going quiet - her reaction is a second longer in the Scorsese cut (this seems odd but I checked it multiple times) The italian cut also has the extra second.




Just checked it. Exactly the same as in the German version.
Without this sec the scene ends too abruptly. But one will hardly notice unless he knows.

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Lil Brutto
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« Reply #119 on: June 08, 2011, 03:22:12 PM »

A wealth of info in the latter pages of this thread. This is great!

Keep up the good work.  Wink

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