References to gangster films in The Hoods and/or OUATIA

[drinkanddestroy]

While Harry Grey claimed that the only liberty he took in The Hoods was the death of Max, Leone actually believed that much of the adult gangster parts of The Hoods were subconsciously lifted from gangster films. I just watched The Public Enemy (1931), and noticed that that film may well have been the source for the parts in The Hoods where every time Noodles comes home to visit his mother, his brother yells at him for being a gangster.

I haven't watched any other early gangster films, but I figured it would be cool to have a thread where we can discuss different films that chapters in The Hoods may have been lifted from  

[cigar joe]

Did you happen to notice the scene in "The Public Enemy" that's very similar to the Tuco-gun shop owner sequence in GBU? 

[drinkanddestroy]

Did you happen to notice the scene in "The Public Enemy" that's very similar to the Tuco-gun shop owner sequence in GBU? 

can't say I do....

[cigar joe]

You know I'm not sure now, I could be mistaken, he's in a shop he asks to see a revolver, he asks for bullets, he loads the gun and robs the clerk, it could be from another Cagney gangster film "The Roaring Twenties".

[Groggy]

You know I'm not sure now, I could be mistaken, he's in a shop he asks to see a revolver, he asks for bullets, he loads the gun and robs the clerk, it could be from another Cagney gangster film "The Roaring Twenties".

No it's The Public Enemy.

[drinkanddestroy]

Just watched The Public Enemy again, and I noticed a few more scenes that Grey may have stolen for The Hoods.

First, just a couple of quick notes: On pp. 383-384, Frayling lists a few of the scenes/concepts that Grey stole from various gangster movies. I won't repeat the stuff that Frayling lists; so I'm only going to list stuff Frayling has not mentioned. Also, some of this stuff may be fairly common scenarios, and although it appears in some form in both TPE and in The Hoods, I can't be sure that it was lifted from the movie. But I'll list all the stuff that I think there is a chance The Hoods may have possibly lifted; the list will go in order from the more unique scenarios that I am more certain Grey lifted, to the more generic scenarios which I am less certain he lifted.

Here goes:

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1) TPE: While Tom and Matt are out on a job, a cop kills one of the gang as they are attempting to flee. We then see the boys at the dead guy's funeral, as his mother is crying, saying "he was a good boy..."

The Hoods: As the gang is fleeing from a job, a cop kills Dominic, (who Noodles says was too fat and slow cuz he ate too much spaghetti!) The boys go to the funeral, where everyone gives them dirty looks, cuz Dominic died on a job with them.


2) TPE: Tom has a mother, brother, and a father who died when he is a young boy, just like Noodles in The Hoods. (In the first post in this thread, I described how Grey lifted the part where his brother lectures him whenever he comes home).


3) TPE: Once Tom and Matt make it big, there is a scene where they get specially fitted for suits. In The Hoods, when the gang is in Atlantic City there is a part of a chapter where they call in a tailor to make them suits. (Not sure whether it's lifted, but I figure it's worth a mention).

4) TPE: While the boys are hiding out during a gang war, Paddy Ryan (the gang leader) makes them give him their guns and ALL THEIR MONEY, to ensure that they stay in hiding and don't venture out into the street. In The Hoods, Max (the gang leader) has the boys give him their money to hide in suitcases (so that they don't get caught for evading income taxes).

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Now, in addition to the gun-shop sequence that was borrowed for GBU, I think there are two more scenes in TPE (not mentioned by Frayling) that Leone may have borrowed from in his cinema:

A) When Tom is dancing at the club with the  Jean Harlow character, he leaves with Matt to go on a job. Harlow is distressed that he is leaving her; he basically has to choose between the two, but he ditches her to go with Tom on the job. Similar to two very important Noodles-Deborah-Max scenes in OUATIA.

B) When Tom's brother -- a World War I vet --  is lecturing him about being a gangster, Tom reminds him that he was a soldier: "You killed and liked it!" Similar to the juxtaposition between the gunslingers and the Civil War which is a major theme of GBU (according to Frayling, Leone also borrowed from Chaplin's Monseur Verdoux, who commits a comedy of murders and at his trial, says that what he did is nothing compared to Stalin and Roosevelt).

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For those of you who have read The Hoods, please add any other scenes that you think the book lifts from gangster movies!

[drinkanddestroy]

Now, in addition to the gun shop sequence that was borrowed for GBU, I think there are two more scenes in TPE (not mentioned by Frayling) that Leone may have borrowed from in his cinema:

A) When Tom is dancing at the club with Jean Harlow, he leaves with Matt to go on a job. Harlow is distressed that he is leaving her; he basically has to choose between the two, but he ditches her to go with Tom on the job. Similar to two very important Noodles-Deborah-Max scenes in OUATIA.

I just watched Little Caesar again, the part about the gangster having to choose between his gang partner and his girl is actually much more of a theme in Little Caesar than in The Public Enemy.

[drinkanddestroy]

Frayling says that Leone specifically used a lot of references to early gangster films in OUATIA (not just the references that Harry Grey used in The Hoods), as OUATIA was Leone's homage to the gangster-film genre, just as OUATITW was his homage to the Western.

So, I'm expanding this thread to cover "References to gangster films in The Hoods and/or OUATIA"


I saw another Gangster film reference in OUATIA last night.

I watched Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye; Cagney plays a gangster (not as crazy as Cody Jarrett of a year earlier, but perhaps as a reference to Jarrett), someone says to Cagney, "You're nuts!" And Cagney's response is to slug the guy and warn him DON'T YOU EVER SAY THAT AGAIN! DON'T YOU EVER SAY THAT AGAIN!

Fortunately for that guy, he heeded Cagney's warning; Noodles should have taken a lesson.....

[SimRob]

I've listed some of the references in Once to classic gangster films on my site. Max's psychopathic character obsessed with a glamorous blonde is based on Scarface. Noodles as a small time gangster who doesn't feel comfortable with the big time echoes the main character in Little Caesar. From Public Enemy there is the theme of boyhood friends growing up to become gangsters and also as comments above say, max calling Noodles away from Deborah. More here:

http://www.onceuponatimeinamerica.net/allusions.html