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Author Topic: The Godfather vs. OUATIA  (Read 28593 times)
General Sibley
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« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2005, 10:47:42 AM »

Im not saying it, it is a fact.

But If you think this is bashing the jewish people, it is not, as you may know the Jewish community in the United States is a very successful comunity. They are very well economically, they have tremendous connections all around.

Roma is right on target.  I believe this is mentioned in  Protocol #27 in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"  Roll Eyes

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General Sibley
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« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2005, 10:48:59 AM »

I think we're straying a bit off topic, and so, in an attempt to steer us back on course....

The Godfather isn't worthy to change the bed pans of OUATIA. TG is a fundamentally dishonest film. It follows the standard loss-of-innocence template, the one where the audience is supposed to feel keenly the protagonist's fall from grace.

Trouble is, this movie is about a gangster's son. His very existence is grounded in corruption, and we're supposed to believe that a gangster's son can begin life in a state of innocence? If Puzo/Coppola had given us a gangster's son modeled on the real children of such people, the movie as it exists would not have been possible. So instead, they gave us Michael, the mafia boy with a heart of gold, a creature that has never existed on this or any other planet. And then they invite us to luxuriate in a sense of loss when Michael abandons his "earlier principles" and puts on the mantel of his gangster father. Oh, the cruel irony!

OUATIA takes an entirely different approach. It assumes that people who grow up to be gangsters don't start out as altar boys (temple boys?). It also assumes that gangsters act like gangsters, even in their dealings with other gangsters. It is axiomatic that hoods betray their friends, and OUATIA uses this fact to explore themes regarding male bonding and betrayal important to Leone. In an amazing feat of narrative construction, we witness the revelation that an old act of betrayal by one character was in fact a carefully manipulated act of betrayal by another. Then we see the wronged buddy, after learning the truth, *declining* the opporturnity for revenge. Oh, Noodles, what a shame you couldn't do a Michael and have your enemies ritually murdered through a bit of bravura film editing!

One of the things that haunts OUATIA is the sense of a life wasted. Leone accomplished this in large measure through his use of fractured chronology; we get both the sense of a lifetime passing and of the fact that most of that lifetime, except for what is retained in memory, is gone for good. And memory, Noodles discovers, is unreliable. There are not many old gangsters, but we get an idea what such a character might be like when we watch OUATIA. And none of us, I'm sure, would want to trade places with Noodles.

This is not how one feels at the end of The Godfather. Rather, one feels the calculated twinge evoked by the filmmakers ("Oh, no, Michael, you've lost your soul!") immediately followed by the idea that, if you've got to be a Godfather, you might as well be the biggest, baddest Godfather you can ("I wish *I* could murder people I hate, and with as much style! Can't wait for the sequel!!")

So the difference between TG and OUATIA, I submit, is the difference between art and kitsch.



Wow...  Bravo Dave, very nicely done.

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cigar joe
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« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2005, 04:17:21 PM »

Bravo Dave!

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cedet
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« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2005, 05:30:25 AM »

Yep DAve, good Shot

OUATIA is an Emotional Film.
TG is a MAfia biographie.

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cedet
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« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2005, 05:37:35 AM »

Furthermore, OUATIA a about "inocence corrupted" and the TG is about filaition and what to do with his inheritance. More over, OUATIA is a Greek Tragedy, and TG is more a "simple" Mafia movie.
OUATIA has a bigger Emotionnal Dimension, based on 2 characters (De Niro and Woods)
The Godfather is a familly story lead by Pacino.

Finally these movie can't be campared because their purpose are totally different.

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Dirty Politician
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« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2005, 04:48:42 PM »

The Godfather is a GREAT film. Of that there can be really no question. But for me OUATIA is the greatest film ever made.
I think it all comes down to FEELING over substance. And Leone's films, coupled with Morricone's score, are all feeling.
The scene as De Niro walks back into his old life after decades away and wistfully remembers his past are stunning shot and simply beautiful. And the powerful ending as he confronts Woods finally is suitably heart-stopping.
The Godfather doesn't carry such poignant moments. It is just a strong film from start to finish, wonderfully acted with a powerful tale to tell.
OUTIA on the other hand has you riding the gaunlet of emotions from start to finish. We should loathe Noodles and yet the old man at the end evokes our pity, despite the henious crimes of his past. Only Leone can pull that off and OUATIA is his masterpeice.

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« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2005, 02:41:12 AM »

Nice one Dave, very good analysis.
Coppola had a self-procliamed thorn in his side. He aledgedly said 'he didn't want to do well (win oscars) at Films based on novels. He wanted make real cinema, he wanted to be a Auteur.'
 
Roma is right on target.  I believe this is mentioned in  Protocol #27 in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"  Roll Eyes

Ahh the 'Protocols of Learned Elders of Zion' Love a good Russian fairytale at bedtime now and again.

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Poggle
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« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2005, 05:55:45 PM »

The Godfather:



OUATIA:



That's what I think Wink

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« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2005, 09:03:49 PM »

Poggle you have a very unique way of looking at things.  I like your interpretation, but I'm not too sure I understand it completely.  Can you elaborate on it..

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« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2005, 10:02:34 PM »

Hmm, the second image(The Salvador Dali First Supper) didn't work.

Anyway, it's the Last Supper painted by the dramatic, serious artist, Da Vinci, and then there's the mysterious surrealist painting of the Last Supper by the eccentric Dali. I kind of think of GF and OUATIA like that. Leone is the mysterious surrealist type and OUATIA is a very dreamy story with that Tolkien/mythology element of "Untold stories/less is more" to have that endless abyss of mysteries and interpretations.
Coppola's Godfather is more dramatic, structered, the story is very much in perspective, and it has more of an "opera" feeling to it than OUATIA, which is kind of ironic considering who directed OUATIA Wink OUATIA is part of Leone's American mythology and fantasy tales and GF is a dramatic portrait of an Italian-American(Not in general terms) family.

For me it's a tie in a way since I like the stories the most for the above reasons. When I'm done watching GF it's my favorite and when I'm done watching OUATIA it's my favorite. Know what I mean? So I just think of them as being in a tie.

Though I admit I find GF has a little more of an entertainment factor. I guess because it's more epic, better cast, it has Italy, and because I have three different DVD's to pop in rather than one long-assed story. I'm an Italian-American, so I guess that contributes to it. I don't relate at all to the people in OUATIA as much as I do the GF characters. If it wasn't for Leone I probably wouldn't care about the story at all, but Leone could make anything turn to gold. I don't mean to be sounding like I'm degrading it, but it's the Italian edge of GF that I find a little more appealing.

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The Firecracker
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« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2006, 11:17:48 PM »

Oh Please! The sleep inducing film that is "The Godfather" isnt fit to shine OUATIA's boots!

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« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2006, 11:21:36 PM »

Oh Please! The sleep inducing film that is "The Godfather" isnt fit to shine OUATIA's boots!

I agree. The Godfather was a great movie but OUATIA is 100 times better.

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« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2006, 07:14:45 AM »

As has been pointed out, you can't really compare the two.  "The Godfather" is pretty much a straightforward gangster pic, albeit an extraordinarily well-made one, while OUATIA really isn't, it's more of a character study than a ganster film.

If you forced me to pick I'd say "The Godfather", or at least Part II.  Great casts, writing, music, direction - everything just clicks.  OUATIA has all that, but again it isn't really a gangster film per se.

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« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2006, 11:43:02 AM »

Yes and no. Leone was honest enough not to glamorize the gangsters, so he departed from genre conventions in that respect. He presented his central character as a murderer and rapist, a loser without redeeming qualities. His most salient feature was his unlimited capacity for self deception, which allowed Noodles to dream his life away. It's a character study, sure, but one appropriate for a gangster background. There is nothing noble about those guys.

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« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2006, 05:13:22 AM »

I adore the Godfather, I really do but I really find OUATIA just a much more entertaining and thought provoking film.

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