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Author Topic: The Godfather Thread  (Read 10687 times)
Groggy
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« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2012, 09:06:34 AM »

Aside from OUATITW I'm not sure how direct or deliberate it was.

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« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2012, 12:20:54 PM »

I'm one of the happy few who know the truth: GF III >>>>>>> GF II
Of course GF III is flawed and was only done for the money (and you can definitely feel it), but GF II just does not make any sense from a scriptwriting point of view. There are 2 movies in this one, and absolutely nothing ties them together. That structural nonsense is way more of a pain in this ass (especially with repeated viewings as many mentioned here) than even many flaws here and there.

To me:
GF I : 17/20
GF II: 12/20
GF III: 14/20
GF Trilogy: 18/20

« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 12:22:37 PM by noodles_leone » Logged


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Groggy
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« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2012, 12:22:31 PM »

Explain.

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noodles_leone
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« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2012, 12:24:23 PM »

The two movies in one?
Vito sequences vs Michael sequences.

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« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2012, 12:26:38 PM »

I should probably add that GF II is often mentioned as one of the best scripts of the last century probably, hence my (over)reaction.

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Groggy
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2012, 12:38:35 PM »

That's what makes Part II so good. The contrast works perfectly for me.

If you're complaining about nonsensical writing how can you defend Godfather III? There you have to deal with an incestuous romance, yet another old friend of the family out for revenge, a convoluted and ridiculous scheme involving the Vatican and slimy bankers, a team of hitmen not introduced until the final reels... if you think about it, the story makes next to no sense.

Damn, maybe my rating of GFIII was way too high.

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« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2012, 12:49:13 PM »

For me GF II is excellent in every respect. The storytelling with the 2 time levels is excellent.

It loses for me a lot in the TV version which tells the story of I and II chronological.

GF I    10/10
GF II   10/10
GD III   6/10

Maybe 7 if I re-watch part III, maybe not

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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2012, 02:03:18 PM »

At the risk of infuriating Jenkins it approaches the Mob as a metaphor for big business/the US government/whatever respectable institution Coppola and Puzo wanted to tear down.
How about . . . (get ready for your little mind to be blown) . . . : the Family is a metaphor for the family! [Check out the big brain on Francis!]

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« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2012, 02:16:31 PM »

If you're complaining about nonsensical writing how can you defend Godfather III? There you have to deal with an incestuous romance, yet another old friend of the family out for revenge, a convoluted and ridiculous scheme involving the Vatican and slimy bankers, a team of hitmen not introduced until the final reels... if you think about it, the story makes next to no sense.

Well I don't know. It either works as an ensemble film ("un film choral" as we say in French) or we could consider that the protagonist is the family.
The plot is "convoluted and ridiculous" in its own way in the three movies, so the fact that they went a bit too far on GF3 doesn't bother me much. GF2 is harder to follow to me (but maybe it's just the fact that I get usually more bored watching it so I can miss a few things here and there).

My main complain about GF3 is that Michael giving the power to Andy Garcia is what really does not make any sense to me. He's probably the last guy I would give my family to (i'd even consider Sonny prior to him if he was still alive: at least you could trust him). Andy is impulsive, does not know anything about the business and is far too individualist. Can you seriously imagine him dealing with the bankers, the Vatican or even Sollozzo? Running a Casino? If he had been in charge since the begining, the whole trilogy would have lasted a single short movie (he would have killed Sollozzo at the wedding OR made business with him hence being murdered 5 minutes after the wedding). But that's what happened to real life Mafia, so...

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« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2012, 02:21:49 PM »

How about . . . (get ready for your little mind to be blown) . . . : the Family is a metaphor for the family! [Check out the big brain on Francis!]

That works too.

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drinkanddestroy
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« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2012, 08:26:24 PM »

a convoluted and ridiculous scheme involving the Vatican and slimy bankers


wasn't that partially based on true events?

« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 08:34:48 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2012, 08:34:19 PM »

I once very briefly watched the commentary to GF3 (for about 2 minutes, at the very end); Coppola says that he'd intended to have a 4th GF: with the Andy Garcia character as the Godfather, and in it would be flashbacks to Michael Corleone's career -- in the same vein of GF2. But Mario Puzo died before they could write a new script.

So we can forever guess how it would have turned out.

Anyway, my ratings are 10/10 for the first 2 movies; the 3rd, which I've only seen once, I'd rate about a 6/10.  
The 3 movies have many similar scenes (eg. each movie opens with a big party, the Catholic Festa in Little Italy in the 2nd and 3rd, the final montage with all the killings in all 3,  etc.). It's done specifically to show family traditions and to compare/contrast generations of the family, etc., and perhaps Coppola thought the viewer would like to see great scenes reprised, but that really annoyed me by the time it got to the 3rd movie, how many scenes are references/reprisals of the first two. I rolled my eyes at GF3's the opening scene (the party for the dedication of the donation to the church); the festa in Little Italy; and the montage of killings taking place while Anthony is singing his opera. I was like, "Are you serious? Get some new material!"

The only new thing to really enjoy in GF3 is Eli Wallach, who is always a joy to watch. Also, I have always liked Andy Garcia (and I've always thought even long before I ever saw GF3 that he looked just like Al Pacino), but if they had actually made a GF4, I doubt he could have been anything close to as good as Pacino was as a godfather.

Finally, I just wanna say that I didn't think Sofia Coppola deserved all that criticism; she wasn't nearly as awesome as all the incredible characters in the first 2 movies, but she was far from awful.

« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 02:11:32 AM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2012, 04:14:45 AM »

wasn't that partially based on true events?

How's that relevant?

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« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2012, 10:45:59 AM »

Since we were discussing some of the characters earlier, I have been thinking about how many amazing characters there are in the first two movies, and I decided to make a list here of all of them. As I said previously, the only character that I really did not like was Kay Adams Corleone; but one of the incredible things about GF1&2 is how many characters are just perfect. (Of course, some  characters  on this list have very small roles, but IMO everyone on this list is perfect in their roles eg. the nameless bodyguard/hitman played by Amerigo Tot he doesn't say a word, but looks as perfect as you can possibly get for a bodyguard/hitman).

Do you think anyone on the list doesn't belong here? Or that anyone else should be on the list?

Here goes, in no particular order, combining GF1&2:


1. Vito Corleone
2. Michael Corleone
3. Santino Corleone
4. Fredo Corleone
5. Tom Hagen
6. Peter Clemenza
7. Virgil Sollozzo
8. Apollonia Vitelli-Corleone (Michael's Italian wife)
9. Young Vito (played by De Niro)
 10. Young Clemenza
11. Frank Pantangeli
12. Don Fanucci
13. Hyman Roth
14. Nameless Bodyguard (played by Amerigo Tot)
15. Senate Committee Chairman



And the ones I listed are just those whom I think are PERFECT in their roles, like Oscar-worthy. There are so many others that are damn good including Al Neri, Capt. McCluskey, Don Cicco, Sal Tessio, Johnny Ola, Luca Brasi, Senator Geary, Pentangeli's brother and perhaps more.

btw, I have looked through cast lists on imdb and Wikipedia, and have not seen the name of the person who played Don Cicio (the Mafia head in the town of Corleone who killed Vito's family, and whom De Niro kills at the end of GF2). Does anyone know who that actor is?



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« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2012, 02:24:31 AM »

Once I get past #6 (except for DeNiro) I don't remember any of them, I haven't seen the films in quite a long time, and the last time I did it was the 3rd installment.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 04:22:24 AM by cigar joe » Logged

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