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Author Topic: About Jill McBein and the movie rythm  (Read 6130 times)
Vinnie James
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« on: July 05, 2004, 06:15:45 PM »

Claudia Cardinale...
just wonderful, right? Not only a woman to die for, but a woman to kill for...
Still... I think Jill's/Claudia scenes break the rythm of the plot, especially at the beginning: when she arrives to town, and in the funeral.
Was Sergio Leone right in giving her so much protagonism? Undecided

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Blueberry
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2004, 01:29:55 AM »

I think Jill's arrival to town is just plain beautiful - what's important here is what surrounds her: all sorts of different people (wheelchair, indians, cattle buyers, cowboys..), all the dust, the talking around her.. but she is alone. From these images you get a good idea about the kind of place that Flagstone is. An outskirt border town, with little civilisation - in contrast to Jill from New Orleans.

And then, when she is alone and decides to venture into town through the station building... that (crane)shot over the roof offering a view of Flagstone while Morricone's music reaches climax... it gives me gooseskin every time. And then, as she continues through town, we keep seeing what kind of a rugged place this is: all the nervous energy, the dust, the horses, the wagons, the chinese laundry, the yelling... very beautiful shot in my opinion. And a good introduction to Jill coz she is kind of juxtaposed to this scenery with her eastern city look. And the scene lives and breathes with Jill's musical theme.

The focus here is more on Flagstone than on Jill, I think. And it's just excellent. And it doesn't stop here - they go out into Monument Valley, still followed by that theme... wow...

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cigar joe
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2004, 05:00:47 AM »

Jill is the central character of the plot, she brings the end of the old west even more than the railroad. She alone remains at the end while all the others leave the stage.

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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2004, 08:14:26 AM »

i think this is the unique beauty of OUATITW that Leone places a woman in a leading role and does so without making it cliched. my only criticism is that she was a prostitute and that perhaps is typical of leone's mentality.  Wink

Marisol and Consuela Baxter aside all the women i can think of in leone's westerns were just sexual creatures - which is perhaps why us boys like them so much! Grin

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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2004, 09:27:35 AM »

I especially liked the arrival at McBain ranch through the burial scene.   By the way, a month ago I saw Johnny Guitar on AMC, supposedly part inspiration for Once/West (woman built saloon in middle of nowhere, knowing train had to come through eventually), and it was absolutely terrible, and the two women characters were (in the words of Daffy Duck) absolute despicable !!!

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cigar joe
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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2004, 04:24:30 PM »

Johnny Guitar, what a hoot! It must have gained something in its Italian translation, lol.

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Vinnie James
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2004, 01:09:33 PM »

I know Jill its the central piece in the plot...I don't dislike her arrival to town, I just said It's a little...slow...

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2004, 11:33:26 PM »

Jill is only the "central" character of the movie in the same way that Helen is the central character of the Iliad. Both are trophies to be fought over, and beyond this, both function as emblems of the civilizations they help to found. The central character of OUATITW, as the term is usually understood, however, has to be Harmonica (as Achilles is the central character of the Iliad). Central characters are the ones who drive the plot.

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« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2004, 05:30:19 AM »

Sure it's slow, the whole movie is slow, that's no secret. On the contrary. It's enjoyable. Marvellous.

And of course Jilll is a central character, like Frank and Harmonica. They drive the plot forward very much.

Cheyenne less so, I would say - he rescues Harmonica from the train, but that's basically it. We don't even see his final dealings wit mr. Choo-choo Morton. He's there to supply a kind of a more melancholic feel to the cynicalness (?) of it all. The romantic bandit and all that.

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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2004, 09:25:03 AM »

The pace is supposed to be slow, back then there was a lot of waiting, for stuff like trains.  Not like today when people get mad when the airplane is five minutes late.   The trio waited like 2 hours for Harmonica to arrive at Cattle Corner.  Jill waited quite a bit until she decided to get things rolling by herself in Flagstone.  And Leone wanted to show that the McBain ranch was quite distant from Flagstone (which is why they needed water that distance from Flagstone).

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Vinnie James
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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2004, 12:44:58 PM »

Yeah, I understand that about being quick is a madness of our days. That life at the West was slower, and the movie rythm is not casual.
But -I hope you don't blame me- my viewer position makes me complain about concrete parts of the movie, too slow to my will.

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"Qué nos jugamos?"
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Frank
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« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2004, 10:36:40 PM »

Vinnie,

I like your observation.  I like Jill and I like her arrival and all, but the crazy sex scene with Frank is nuts.  The movie is slow, but with most other characters there is tension as something is threatening to happen, but with Jill you lack that so it is just slow.

Even if I don't agree with your take, it is good to see a lot of discussion on your point.

Don't be afraid to lay another point out there.

Frank

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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2004, 07:10:03 AM »

Slow.. slow.. slow.. and most excellent. I often think of the movie like a three act opera.

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Jupa
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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2005, 02:21:32 PM »

I think that Jill is,in a way,the most central character of the film.Everything in the movie revolves around her.

And yes,her scenes are slow,but so are all the other scenes in the film.Leone takes his time.And no,I don''t think her scenes break the rhythm of the plot.

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