Sergio Leone Web Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 23, 2017, 01:14:30 PM
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
News:


+  Sergio Leone Web Board
|-+  Films of Sergio Leone
| |-+  Once Upon A Time In The West (Moderators: cigar joe, moviesceleton, Dust Devil)
| | |-+  commentary on OUATITW dvd
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: commentary on OUATITW dvd  (Read 5753 times)
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8316

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« on: May 10, 2012, 03:30:53 PM »

so I just watched the commentary on the OUATITW dvd (it's the Paramount R1 SE; this is the second time I have watched it with the commentary; the first time was 2 years ago).


They use many different commentators doing various segments; some last for several scenes, some are only part of a single scene, and many start and/or end in middle of a scene.  I made a list of each segment of commentary, with the name of the commentator, the scene(s) that the segments cover, and the time in the movie that the segment occurs. I hope this is useful to anyone who wants to listen to the commentary, but only the good parts; so you can see where the good ones (like Frayling, Hall, Bertolucci, and Cardinale) and the bad ones (Milius, Carpenter, and Cox) occur, so you can skip the annoying ones and go to the good ones.
And  also useful so that I can bitch about the segments in the next post   Wink
And bitch about Paramount; they switch commentators an insanely annoying  FIFTEEN times  Angry

(I wanted to be as exact as possible with the times; so I listed the precise time in the movie that each commentary starts and ends. Therefore, there is usually few seconds' gap between each segment [eg. segment #2 ends at 1:03:35, and #3 begins at 1:04:07] because the speaker is introduced before each segment, and cuz sometimes one segment ends a few seconds before the next begins. But I did it cuz i wanted to be as  accurate as possible with the times of each segment).

Here goes:

-------------------------------------------

1. Christopher Frayling:

-- Opening scene at Cattle Corner station
-- Massacre at McBain ranch
-- Jill's arrival at Flagstone train station
-- Jill's drive through Monument Valley with Sam
-- the trading post scene

Time: beginning of movie until 48:02


----------------------------------------------

2. Sheldon Hall

-- Funeral at McBain ranch
-- Jill in the McBain house, and part of Cheyenne's visit to the house and talking with Jilll

Time: 48:30 - 1:03:35
------------------------------------------


3. John Milius

-- part of Cheyenne visiting the McBain house and talking with Jill, while
-- Frank/Morton on train


Time: 1:04:07 - 1:06:50

-------------------------------------------

4. Hall

-- part of Morton/Frank on train
-- back to Cheyenne/Jill at McBain house
-- Harmonica/Jill at McBain house

Time: 1:06:54 - 1:19:30


--------------------------------------------

5. Bertolucci

-- Harmonica/Wobbles at Chinese Laundry
-- part of train scene with Harmonica

Time: 1:19:55 - 1:22:40


-----------------------------------------------


6. John Carpenter

-- part of train scenes: Frank kills wobbles; we discover Cheyenne under train; Frank and his men leave the train; Cheyenne kills Frank's men and enters train

Time: 1:23:04 - 1:33:01

---------------------------------------------

7. Bertolucci

-- Cheyenne leaves train
-- (beginning of) Cheyenne and Harmonica building Sweetwater

Time 1:33:11 - 1:35:50

----------------------------------------------

8. Alex Cox

-- Frank and Morton at Navajo Cliffs
-- (middle of) Cheyenne and Harmonica building Sweetwater

Time: 1:36:07 - 1:38:45

-----------------------------------------------

9. Frayling

-- (end of) Cheyenne and Harmonica building Sweetwater

Time: 1:38:47 - 1:42:03

---------------------------------------------------

10. Claudia Cardinale

-- Frank and Jill love lovemaking scene

Time: 1:42:35 - 1:47:19

----------------------------------------------------

11. Frayling

-- The auction of Sweetwater, while....
-- ... Morton buys off Frank's men, while...
-- ... back to the auction of Sweetwater
-- in Flagstone saloon after the auction, Harmonica and Jill speak, and Frank walks in....

Time: 1:47:23 - 1:59:52

--------------------------------------------------

12. Carpenter

-- Frank/Harmonica in saloon
-- part of the shootout between Frank/Harmonica and Frank's (former) men

Time: 1:59:57 - 2:07:25


---------------------------------------------------

13. Frayling

-- conclusion of shootout with Frank's (former) men
-- Frank rides back to Morton's train

Time: 2:07:29 - 2:11:09

--------------------------------------------------


14. Cox

-- Frank arrives at train, sees aftermath of fight between Cheyenne's men and Morton's (formerly Frank's) men
-- Morton's death

Time: 2:11:11 - 2:13:34

---------------------------------------------------

15. Frayling


-- Frank heads to McBain ranch, through the end of the movie

Time: 2:13:45 until the end

------------------------------------------------


Here is the total amount of time that each commentator has, (rounded to the approx. nearest half- minute  Wink ):

Frayling - 99 minutes
Hall - 27 1/2 minutes
Carpenter - 17 1/2 minutes
Bertolucci - 5 1/2 minutes
Cardinale - 5 minutes
Cox - 5 minutes
Milius - 2 1/2 minutes

« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 09:36:48 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8316

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2012, 05:24:06 PM »

Okay, now I have a lot of bitching to do about this commentary.

 I never like these commentaries with multiple people that are done separately; I'd have preferred that Frayling do the whole commentary. But having a few other scholars doing some scenes is ok in theory, IF done properly. It was NOT done properly here:

Firstly, if you are gonna use segments of few different people making separate commentaries, cut back and forth a few times between 2, or at most 3, Leone scholars; not FIFTEEN times between seven different people. It is incredibly grating to have the commentary repeatedly interrupted by some dude going, " and now, director John Milius!" and two minutes later, " and now, director John Carpenter!" and 2 minutes later, "and now, we hear once again from Alex Cox!"

And substantively, my problem with many of these segments come down to violations of the basic rules about commentaries:

the commentary should be scholars providing us with insight into the movie;

and it should NOT have

A) people who were involved with Leone telling stories about Leone that are completely irrelevant to the movie; nor should it be

B )people in the movie business who are Leone fans but haven't researched the movie, simply ooohing and ahhhhing "what a beautiful shot that was!"

I will refer to these two basic negative rules as "RULE A" and "RULE B," for easy application to specific segments:

---------------------------------

Ok, I will now refer to the numbered sections of commentary (1-15) in my first post:

So Frayling in  #1 is awesome, as Frayling alwayso is. And Sheldon Hall in #2 is very good; he is the best of the non-Frayling commentators on this movie.

Now we get to segment  #3, where we get 2 and a half minutes of John Milius discussing his friendship with Leone. Maybe an interesting piece for those interested in Leone's life, but it tells us nothing about this movie. Why not instead take a video of this segment and put it as a special feature? That would be interesting; putting it on the film commentary is ridiculous, as it provides us with no insight into the making of this film, which is what the commentary should be. RULE A VIOLATION.

segment # 4 with Alex Cox is good; segment #5 is all about Bertolucci discussing his love of Westerns. Nuthin to do with OUATITW. Another RULE A violation: This tidbit belongs on the special features, not the film commentary.

segment # 6: John Carpenter has done no research on the fim. At one point he says something like [paraphrasing]: "I think this is the point where X will happen, if I recall correctly. I haven't seen it in a while." So he is a director who is a huge fan of Leone and this movie, but with zero research or insight. (the only thing he has going for him is that he has an amazing voice).  This segment is just Carpenter saying things like "What an amazing shot that is!" "beautiful shot!" "henry Fonda is amazing!" "beautiful piece of tracking!" Thanks John, for a completely wasted 10 minutes. That is ten precious minutes of the commentary on one of the greatest Westerns ever made, down the drain, spent on listening to you orgasm over the shots. Thanks a lot. RULE B Violation.



« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 02:05:06 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8316

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2012, 05:54:08 PM »

segment #7 is Bertolucci discussing how he put the "quotations" of AW's in the treatment, and was delighted to find out when he saw the movie that Leone had used them in the film; Bertolucci insists he snuck 'em in and Leone didn't realize it; Leone said he did real;ize it, but Bertolucci says he doubts that.

Personally, I think Bertolucci's story may be bullshit, but again, I hate how they took bits of interview and stuck 'em on the dvd as commentary. They should have just showed those videos in the bonus features and that's all; no need to put it on the dvd commentary

-------------------------------------

NOW THIS IS BIG:


segment #8 is Alex Cox pointing out what he believes to be a huge gaffe in continuity. Well, he is 100% wrong: We see Fonda show up at the McBain ranch; then Harmonica and Cheyenne building Sweetwater; then we see Morton and Frank at Navajo Cliffs, and Morton says something like "I know you have that woman here"; and then we see the sex scene between Frank and Jill. The bed is clearly a different bed than Jill's bed at her house. So Frank kidnapped Jill, brought her to Navajo Cliffs, where he had his confrontation with Morton, and then he had his night in bed with Jill, where he told her she had to auction her house off to him. Okay....

However, Cox is obviously under the very mistaken impression: In his opinion, Frank shows up at the McBain house, he has sex with Jill right then and there; and his confrontation with Morton at Navajo Cliffs takes place later. (In Cox's belief, I guess the stuff with Harmonica and Cheyenne building Sweetwater is either taking place at the same time as the Frank-Jill sex scene or later; probably later). But Cox is very confused as to why Frank would show up at Jill's house, and the sex scene wouldn't be shown until later. Cox thinks this is such a huge mistake -- and if it were indeed a mistake, he would be right that it would be huge -- that he is allowed 158 seconds to jump in on the commentary just to point that out!

He is very badly mistaken; he must have missed that very important line where Morton says to Frank "I know you have the woman here." Shame on Paramount for releasing that. This is on the 2003 dvd (the one with the opening shootout on the cover of the dvd case). I have not seen the later dvd's or the blu ray. But those 158 seconds should be cut out of any future dvd/br released of the movie. In its place, I'd even accept an unrelated Milus story, or Carpenter informing us of how awesome the cinematography is.

--------------------------------

segments 9, 10, 11, are al good.

segment #12: John Carpenter, in a rehash of the RULE B violations of segment #6. The only thing he discusses that actually relates to insight on this movie is the occasional times where he points out whether the shot is a location shot or a soundstage shot. Even then, he is just guessing; he has done no research. So even that is useless. The rest of the time is orgasming over camera shots and Claudia Cardinale.

segments 13, 14, and 15 are all fine.


I am sure no new commentaries will be released anytime soon, if ever, on OUATITW. But i am very disappointed in this one. If they were gonna do the different pieces by different people, they shoulda just done Frayling and Sheldon Hall, with the couple of segments by Cardinale and bertolucci that discuss the film.



[One good thing at least is that at least the two commentators I like most -- Frayling and Hall -- combine for more than 75% of the commentary time. But the problem here is compounded by the constant jumping back and forth between the various commentators. If they were gonna do it  this shitty way with so many commentators, I wish they had just taken a single half-hour section or so for all the riffraff to get their mini segments in, and given the rest of the time to the good guys. The fact that they kept jumping back and forth makes it all the more annoying; and every time I start really enjoying a good piece by one of the good guys, I start dreading that any moment now, they are gonna jump back to Carpenter telling us yet again how beautiful the shots are even though he hasnít seen the movie in a decade....Oh well, now that I have my list, Iíll know where to jump to in future viewings   Wink ]


YOU SUCK, PARAMOUNT  Angry






« Last Edit: October 13, 2013, 07:00:46 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
noodles_leone
Bounty Killer
*****
Online Online

Posts: 5056


Lonesome Billy


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2012, 02:14:16 AM »

segment # 6: John Carpenter has done no research on the fim. At one point he says something like [paraphrasing]: "I think this is the point where X will happen, if I recall correctly. I haven't seen it in a while." So he is a director who is a huge fan of Leone and this movie, but with zero research or insight. (the only thing he has going for him is that he has an amazing voice).  This segment is just Carpenter saying things like "What an amazing shot that is!" "beautiful shot!" "henry Fonda is amazing!" "beautiful piece of tracking!" Thanks John, for a completely wasted 10 minutes. That is ten precious minutes of the commentary on one of the greatest Westerns ever made, down the drain, spent on listening to you orgasm over the shots. Thanks a lot. RULE B Violation.

I remember very well about that one. Actually, that's the only part of the commentary I have ever shown to other people. It's too ridiculous not to share it.
"Oh that's the part where..." "Ouch that hurts"... "I have not seen this movie for ages..." "that's probably a screen behind him"
I cannot get why he accepted to do the commentary. They probably didn't pay him a lot to do that.

Logged


New music video: ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE https://youtu.be/p968oyMo5B0
www.ThibautOskian.com
Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2012, 04:25:07 AM »

It's pretty lame, as most collective commentaries are. Even Frayling's comments are largely narrating the action, not the most dynamic or insightful approach. Hall's probably the most interesting but his comments are among the briefest. Carpenter's fanboy drooling is a waste of time.

I'm glad you called Cox out on his gaffe. Some idiots (eg. DVD Savant) have taken him at his word re: the alleged "continuity error." Good thing to see that mindlessly parroted by people. Afro

I like the multi-part documentary that comes with the film, that's more than sufficient. A jerry-rigged commentary of multiple individuals on different occasions, not so much.

Logged


Saturday nights with Groggy
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8316

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2012, 06:34:27 AM »

It's pretty lame, as most collective commentaries are. Even Frayling's comments are largely narrating the action, not the most dynamic or insightful approach. Hall's probably the most interesting but his comments are among the briefest. Carpenter's fanboy drooling is a waste of time.

I'm glad you called Cox out on his gaffe. Some idiots (eg. DVD Savant) have taken him at his word re: the alleged "continuity error." Good thing to see that mindlessly parroted by people. Afro

I like the multi-part documentary that comes with the film, that's more than sufficient. A jerry-rigged commentary of multiple individuals on different occasions, not so much.

--- I have to disagree with you on Frayling; his comments usually provide a lot of background info. Sure, over the course of an entire film, there may be some parts where you end up narrating; but mostly he is very insightful. However, with OUATITW, it is a bit different cuz he is only doing some scenes: when he has the whole movie, he can spend lots of time explaining background info. When he only has parts, he may not have enough time to explain all that background info.

Furthermore, I do not know if Frayling knew which scenes he'd be getting, or if he did a commentary on the whole thing but they only used some parts. So we don't know how much of his stuff may have been cut out. So IMO he should not be criticized for a commentary that he really didn't have that much control over. When you listen to the full commentaries he has done: COR, FOD, FAFDM, GBU (only on the blu ray), DYS, those are all great commentaries.


--- Yes, the documentaries in the Special features are very good. The Extras is one area in which all Special Edition dvd's of Leone Westerns are simply spectacular. (I only wish it was the same way for OUATIA; hopefully they will add stuff to the dvd of the new restored release).


--- yes, Hall is the one non-Frayling guy who is really good, and therefore way too brief. If they were gonna use the committee approach, Hall definitely should have given Hall more time, and not used Cox, Carpenter, or Milius. What they should have done is use Frayling, Hall, plus the segment with Cardinale, and the one segment with Bertolucci in which he actually discusses the movie.

--- RE: Cox's mistake: anyone can make a mistake in following a film. God knows I do all the time. What is unforgivable is Paramount releasing the dvd with that bit of commentary on there. They obviously didn't check with anyone with any knowledge of the movie before releasing taht, cuz anyone could have told them it was not a mistake. If you are gonna release a commentary with someone asserting such a major error on one of the greatest movies ever, you better check with 100 scholars beforehand to be damn certain it's correct.


--- On a separate note: I should point out that while Cox is wrong, that order of the scenes does seem to be a bit strange in the script. If Fonda shows up to kill Jill, and then decides he wants to bang her, why would he bring her to his hideout at Navajo Cliffs first? Why wouldn't he just bang her and then offer her the deal right there in her own bed? Was he afraid it was too dangerous to stay there cuz someone (eg. Harmonica, or the law) would show up there?
Or was he planning on bringing her back to her hideout all along in order to kill her and be able to hide her body, and once he got to the hideout he decided to bang her instead? (I can't imagine he would have brought her to his hideout if he'd have known he was gonna keep her alive; that wouldn't be very smart).
And then once he is at his hideout, he stashes the girl away while confronting Morton? Wouldn't he just bang her right away?
So I definitely think that the order in which those things do happen is a bit strange, and I am sure that is what confused Cox. But he is still wrong: the movie is in the order that the script calls for


« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 02:11:40 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8316

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2012, 06:37:19 AM »

I remember very well about that one. Actually, that's the only part of the commentary I have ever shown to other people. It's too ridiculous not to share it.
"Oh that's the part where..." "Ouch that hurts"... "I have not seen this movie for ages..." "that's probably a screen behind him"
I cannot get why he accepted to do the commentary. They probably didn't pay him a lot to do that.

I get why he accepted it: cuz he is a big fan of the movie and it is a thrill to get yourself immortalized on that film.
What I don't get is wtf Paramount kept his shitty "work." Can't he respect the audience enough to at least have watched the movie recently before doing the commentary? A tiny bit of basic research, even on a site like Wikipedia or imdb, would have perhaps yielded better results. You know, it's a waste, because Carpenter has one of the greatest voices I have ever heard


« Last Edit: May 11, 2012, 01:27:55 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
Novecento
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1519



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2012, 05:45:43 PM »

The detailed Video Watchdog article on the cuts of OUATITW includes some remarks on this commentary too.

Logged
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8316

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2012, 09:51:28 PM »

The detailed Video Watchdog article on the cuts of OUATITW includes some remarks on this commentary too.

Thanks. I read that article once when Jordan Krug first posted it, so I just read it again. great article. (and btw, I STOP my dvd as soon as the Jill's Theme ends at the very end, before the end credits roll; so I end the film with the correct music, and don't hear Cheyenne's Theme  Wink )

I had forgotten that the Lloyd article discusses the commentary, but I see it there, now that I read it again.
--I am glad the article calls out Carpenter and Cox for their foolishness.

-- I wouldn't have been as harsh on Milius as he is, cuz to me it sounds like that Milius piece is taken from an interview he did (just like those other interview pieces with him in the documentaries), and Paramount slapped it on the film commentary just so they could advertise yet another name there on the commentary. It doesn't sound as if Milius knew that "HERE ARE YOUR TWO MINUTES TO SAY ANYTHING FOR THE COMMENTARY."

--As for the Lloyd's doubting that Bertlucci really snuck in more quotations from westerns than Leone realized: I have no idea whether or not it is true, and I don't think anybody could really know that besides Leone. The fact that there are some specific references to Westerns in the clothing of Bronson or in the big crane shot at Flagstone station doesn't necessarily mean that Leone understood ALL of Bertolucci's comments.

-- I am surprised that Lloyd makes no mention of Sheldon Hall, who does a nice job.

-- I think he is a bit too harsh on Frayling. It is only natural that during a long commentary, there will be moments where a commentator may do a bit of narrating; the question is how much. Yeah, he can take one quote that Frayling narrates, but overall I think Fraying does a very solid insight; besides, who knows how much of his commentary was cut to make room for the idiots; perhaps he made a full commentary but they only used 100 minutes' worth. Who knows. But he is correct that Frayling certainly should have addressed the issue of the added "Harmonica Rising" scene; that is a major point that has to be discussed at that moment in the film. There is no excuse for that. Furthermore, I do not recall Frayling addressing the issue of the final music either.... Thoigh otherwise, Frayling does address the cut scenes where necessary

Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
stanton
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2936



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2012, 05:34:42 AM »

I also remember that Frayling's commentary was slightly disappointing. At first there probably wasn't anything he hadn't already written in his book, but I also noticed that he very often only describes what we watch on the screen.

Logged

Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2012, 12:59:58 PM »

The detailed Video Watchdog article on the cuts of OUATITW includes some remarks on this commentary too.

Link?

Logged


Saturday nights with Groggy
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8316

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2012, 01:35:46 PM »

Link?

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10564.0

Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
Novecento
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1519



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2012, 04:40:19 PM »

Link?

It's still available to buy as a back issue. The one you want is issue 110, August 2004:

http://www.videowatchdog.com/home/home.html

Logged
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8316

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2012, 05:12:11 PM »

It's still available to buy as a back issue. The one you want is issue 110, August 2004:

http://www.videowatchdog.com/home/home.html

doesn't look like the checkouit uses any high-tech security. I did not see logos for VeriSign or any similar company. seems a bit dangeorus to me...

Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8316

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2012, 05:18:38 AM »

The detailed Video Watchdog article on the cuts of OUATITW includes some remarks on this commentary too.

that comment in the article where Lloyd describes Milius's bit of dvd "commentary" is funny; it is really as Lloyd describes it. That segement of "commentary is simply a 2-minute story about how Leone asked Milius to write the script for OUATIA, and the punchline..... is that Milius didn't have the time to do it.  Grin Grin Grin Grin Indeed, that bit of "commentary" is as pathetic as Lloyd describes it.

(But this is totally Paramount's fault, and not Milius's. Cuz this "anecdote" certainly sounds like it came from a regular interview with Milius (just like those interviews he has in the special features), and the geniuses at Paramount decided to take that bit of the interview and slap it on the dvd as a segment of the film commentary. But it's not that Milius knew that bit would be used in the commentary).

On the special features interviews, Milius really cracks me up, in that he somewhat reminds you of Leone: an enormous bearded guy, with huge glasses, smoking a cigar. And as if that huge pair of glasses on he is wearing is not enough, he has another pair hanging on his shirt, and another pair on the desk in front of him. It's hilarious just to look at that video  Grin

p.s. if I were Milius, I wouldn't be advertising the fact that I turned down an offer from the greatest director of all-time to write the greatest movie of all-time

« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 07:43:05 AM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Visit FISTFUL-OF-LEONE.COM

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.041 seconds with 18 queries.