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Author Topic: The movie's biggest flaws/your pet peeves?  (Read 25842 times)
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« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2013, 03:37:31 AM »

With the 250 minute restoration, there's that scene where we see Noodles driving the car into the water, and pulling a disappearing act on the three, and we never see him as it cuts to the next scene. I never really understood this scene.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 03:41:10 AM by Senza » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2013, 03:39:07 AM »

Only that for this scene nobody figured it out. It is simply irritating.

There's always less is more, even though it is frustrating to figure out so much with so little.

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« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2013, 03:40:16 AM »

With the 250 minute restoration, there's that scene where we see Noodles driving the car into the water, and pulling a disappearing act on the three, and we never see him as it cuts to the next scene. I never really understood this scene.

it's like him getting back at Max for when Max pretended to drown in that scene where the boys were trying out Noodles' invention with the salt and the cases of whiskey. it's like the reverse of that scene. And it served to cement the friendship between the gang; one of the key points of the movie is how, despite this being a brutal criminal gang, they cared deeply for each other, which makes the ultimate betrayal all the more profound

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« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2013, 03:41:26 AM »

I understand that it was kind of a way for him to get back at Max, but what puzzled me was why we never see Noodles reappear.

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« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2013, 03:43:35 AM »

It doesn't really resolve as it cuts to the next scene.

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« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2013, 03:53:24 AM »

There's always less is more, even though it is frustrating to figure out so much with so little.

it depends on each case. There are several things I'd have like to have explained further in this movie. Some of them are explained in the 45-50 minutes of missing footage, of which approx. half has now been restored. I discussed those things extensively in the thread about the restoration so I won't do so here. (eg. Noodles meeting Eve, the shift from The Bailey Foundation old age home to the Deborah's dressing room, those are explained in the restored footage).

Also, the newly-restored footage, we see why Noodles is so interested in that new story playing on the TV in Fat Moe's, and how he knows that the Bailey scandal has something to do with why he was called back.

But there are some things that aren't explained at all in any restored footage and which I wish had more explanation. Eg. I always wished that there was another minute of Bailey explaining to us how he planned that getaway; it took a lot of explaining in these boards for me to understand it [eg. he must have used a corpse that had a similar figure to his from their funeral business] he just gives a simple line like 'that was a syndicate operation, the cops were in on it too,' and took quite a bit of explanation for me to understand that.

So, while the 45-50 extra minutes that Leone preferred to include illuminate some areas that require further explanation, there are definitely some places where it may seem somewhat confusing and that there is no further footage to explain it.

For me, this movie always seemed to be a tad frustrating in that respect, like there was a little some information tat maybe could have been a bit more fleshed out. I don't think anyone -- including people like me, who regard this as one of the greatest movies ever made, perhaps even THE greatest -- would argue that this a perfect, flawless movie. You can certainly be the greatest without being flawless.

if, theoretically, Leone could have released the movie literally as long as he wanted, would this have all been explained? who knows.


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« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2013, 03:55:27 AM »

I understand that it was kind of a way for him to get back at Max, but what puzzled me was why we never see Noodles reappear.

well we know that Noodles is alive cuz we see him in 1968  Wink

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« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2013, 03:56:16 AM »

it's like him getting back at Max for when Max pretended to drown in that scene where the boys were trying out Noodles' invention with the salt and the cases of whiskey. it's like the reverse of that scene. And it served to cement the friendship between the gang; one of the key points of the movie is how, despite this being a brutal criminal gang, they cared deeply for each other, which makes the ultimate betrayal all the more profound

One big flaw of the film is that Leone isn't able to put any life in Patsy and Cockeye. Both remain uninteresting secondary characters which don't have any other value for the film's story than to die. They are so uninteresting that there is no emotional resonance about their death.
Actually I think OuTA would be a better film without them.

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« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2013, 03:57:39 AM »

On my first viewing [of the 229 MV], I had so many questions by the end of the movie I was like "...wtf?", and I gave it 3/5 stars.
I decided to give it another go, and this time really try to concentrate and enjoy the movie, and I ended up liking it even more, but as you said, there are still a few things that need a bit of explaining or closure.

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« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2013, 03:59:12 AM »

well we know that Noodles is alive cuz we see him in 1968  Wink

I thought it was some foreshadowing, in that Noodles would in a way, be separated from the rest of the group, and "disappear" only to return in 1968.

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« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2013, 04:01:04 AM »

it depends on each case. There are several things I'd have like to have explained further in this movie. Some of them are explained in the 45-50 minutes of missing footage, of which approx. half has now been restored. I discussed those things extensively in the thread about the restoration so I won't do so here. (eg. Noodles meeting Eve, the shift from The Bailey Foundation old age home to the Deborah's dressing room, those are explained in the restored footage).

Also, the newly-restored footage, we see why Noodles is so interested in that new story playing on the TV in Fat Moe's, and how he knows that the Bailey scandal has something to do with why he was called back.

But there are some things that aren't explained at all in any restored footage and which I wish had more explanation. Eg. I always wished that there was another minute of Bailey explaining to us how he planned that getaway; it took a lot of explaining in these boards for me to understand it [eg. he must have used a corpse that had a similar figure to his from their funeral business] he just gives a simple line like 'that was a syndicate operation, the cops were in on it too,' and took quite a bit of explanation for me to understand that.

So, while the 45-50 extra minutes that Leone preferred to include illuminate some areas that require further explanation, there are definitely some places where it may seem somewhat confusing and that there is no further footage to explain it.

For me, this movie always seemed to be a tad frustrating in that respect, like there was a little some information tat maybe could have been a bit more fleshed out. I don't think anyone -- including people like me, who regard this as one of the greatest movies ever made, perhaps even THE greatest -- would argue that this a perfect, flawless movie. You can certainly be the greatest without being flawless.

if, theoretically, Leone could have released the movie literally as long as he wanted, would this have all been explained? who knows.



You are still  searching for explanations the film does not need. These are all questions I never asked me.

The point with the Pesci scene is that it is shot in a way which makes people assume that there will be something important resulting from it, and that does not happen as the film never returns to Pesci.

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« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2013, 04:01:19 AM »

One big flaw of the film is that Leone isn't able to put any life in Patsy and Cockeye. Both remain uninteresting secondary characters which don't have any other value for the film's story than to die. They are so uninteresting that there is no emotional resonance about their death.
Actually I think OuTA would be a better film without them.

I agree with this, but that scene with Patsy and the cake was probably enough for me to connect with his character. The real emotion comes from the relationship between Noodles and Max.

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« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2013, 04:01:40 AM »

On my first viewing [of the 229 MV], I had so many questions by the end of the movie I was like "...wtf?", and I gave it 3/5 stars.
I decided to give it another go, and this time really try to concentrate and enjoy the movie, and I ended up liking it even more, but as you said, there are still a few things that need a bit of explaining or closure.

oh yeah, I was very confused after my first viewing; I didn't understand all the time jumps, among other things

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« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2013, 04:15:13 AM »

One big flaw of the film is that Leone isn't able to put any life in Patsy and Cockeye. Both remain uninteresting secondary characters which don't have any other value for the film's story than to die. They are so uninteresting that there is no emotional resonance about their death.
Actually I think OuTA would be a better film without them.

well they are not terribly important as far as personal stuff go, but a gang wouldn't be very interesting with 2 characters.

As a criminal gang, they need to have a few members, so you have Cockeye and Patsy, but for the personal relationships, you focus on a couple of individuals, Noodles and Max.

of course, the betrayal between Max and Noodles hurts more, but  the point is that the gang was always together and cared deeply for each other, even if the personal stuff was between Noodles and Max. Cockeye and Patsy exist as members of the gang: Noodles and Max exist as individuals and as they relate to each other. I don't have a huge problem with it. Especially cuz James Hayden and William Forsythe are good actors and do a nice job.

btw, Hayden, (who played the 1933 Patsy), is (so far as I know), the only major cast member who is not currently alive; he died of a heroin overdose before the movie was released http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hayden

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« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2013, 04:17:18 AM »

What a shame  Cry RIP

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