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Author Topic: Mistakes in Frayling's DVD Commentaries  (Read 25198 times)
Cusser
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« on: June 19, 2012, 10:01:44 PM »

Frayling's Blu-Ray DVD Commentary was interesting, I listened to this on Sunday.

But I caught about a dozen factual mistakes that surprised me.  Most glaring, Frayling said that there was a handwas a hand double for Lee Van Cleef in the final showdown, so they could focus on the missing end of the right middle finger, but this is very obvious at Stevens' house (Van Cleef rubs his fingers together, "a tidy sum").  Just tonight I caught about 10 minutes of Death Rides a Horse, obvious that it's Van Cleef himself who has the missing finger end, no hand double.  I remember intentionally checking in FAFDM and again, no tip to his finger.  And I've read Lee cut that off the end of the finger making a playhouse for his daughter.

Frayling said Tuco boasted/joked that he was Lincoln't grandmother, but Tuco said Lincoln's grandFATHER.  

He said the film opens in 1861, but Arch Stanton's grave marker said April 3, 1862, so I would think later.  I'll give him the benefit there.  

Frayling said that Wallach re-did the train/handcuffs scene only after ahole was dug so there'd be an additional level of safety.  But Eli's recollection on the DVD is that he wouldn't do it a second time, too dangerous.  Frayling did remark that Tuco was able to catch the already moving train, not realistic.

Interesting was when Frayling listed the times that Blondie lied.  And we all know that Blondie wasn't "blond", but Tuco had used the name Blondie ("Blondie knows") so Angel Eyes had heard that term/nickname before.

I already knew about Tommie Conner also writing the lyrics for "I saw mommy kissing Santa Claus", which is great trivia.

This was still interesting overall, like how Leone had slated Jack Elam for the Al Mulloch part.  Or that the Spanish soldiers re-built the bridge in like 2.5 days, and like the same soldiers made the cemetery in 2 days.  And that filming was April through September 1966, so definitely in the hot weather.

Add on the mistakes you guys have caught.


« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 07:53:04 PM by Cusser » Logged
drinkanddestroy
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« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2012, 11:37:16 PM »

Thanks for posting, Cusser! Maybe we can expand this into a thread for corrections to all of Frayling's works. I was thinking about making one for a while but always put it off cuz I figured it was a lot of work. But I guess we can have at it now. I love Frayling but with the vast amounts of research for all this stuff that took place decades ago, mistakes are inevitable, so it's important to have a thread to correct it all, for the record.

I'll post whenever I come across a mistake, but here are a few that I recall off the top of my head:

1) GBU Commentary: Frayling says Tuco's second name is "Benefico." I believe it's actually "Benedicto"
 
2) I recall Frayling saying in one of the commentaries (I am not sure if it was GBU) that the budget for FOD was $150,000. This conflicts with his previous statements that the budget was $200,000

3) p. 62 of "Once Upon a Time in Italy,"
top line, Frayling quotes the line that Frank says to Wobbles about trustinga man who wears a belt and suspenders, and says "Kirk Douglas says exactly the same thing in Ace in the Hole." That is incorrect. There is indeed a line about belt and suspenders, bit it is certainly not the exact same line.

4) in STDWD,  Frayling says that Noodles took a train to Buffalo. Well Noodles very clearly says, "first bus."

5) FAFDM Commentary, (during the part where Indio is escaping prison and knocks on the door of the prison guard before shooting him), Frayling says that for FOD, someone else dubbed Volonte's voice into English, but for FAFDM, he was contractually obliged to do it himself. I don't know who did it, but I am just about certain it was the same person who did Volonte's English dub on both films. The voice sounds exactly the same. (I know some people here believe it was the same guy who dubbed Aldo Giuffre into English in GBU).

« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 11:43:58 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2012, 07:36:44 AM »


GBU Commentary: Frayling says Tuco's second name is "Benefico." I believe it's actually "Benedicto"

I caught this error as well; I even played this part 3 times to make sure.

I'm also not sure that the photgrapher was supposed to be the actual Matthew Brady like Frayling stated, but I can live with that.  I know rifles were the first thing manufactured with interchangeable parts, and Frayling spoke of that with Tuco in the gun shop, but I would be skeptical (in real life) that parts from DIFFERENT manufacturers would be interchangeable.

Thanks for posting, Cusser! Maybe we can expand this into a thread for corrections to all of Frayling's works.

OK.

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« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2012, 07:51:34 AM »

if you want to, you can change the subject (something like "Corrections to Frayling's Works") and tell cigar joe to move the thread to the General Discussion Board.

whatever, it's up to you  Afro

---

As for Matthew Brady: do you think that Frayling meant literally that the photographer was supposed to be Matthew Brady? or did he just mean it generally, with the word "Matthew Brady" simply referring to "Union photographer"? No matter what Frayling meant, I guess it's impossible to know whether the photographer was actually supposed to be Brady, since his name is never mentioned (unless it is mentioned in the Credits?) Or do you think that that if he was indeed supposed to be Brady, his name definitely would have been mentioned because he was a historical figure?

« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 07:55:52 AM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2012, 07:56:19 AM »


5) FAFDM Commentary, (during the part where Indio is escaping prison and knocks on the door of the prison guard before shooting him), Frayling says that for FOD, someone else dubbed Volonte's voice into English, but for FAFDM, he was contractually obliged to do it himself. I don't know who did it, but I am just about certain it was the same person who did Volonte's English dub on both films. The voice sounds exactly the same. (I know some people here believe it was the same guy who dubbed Aldo Giuffre into English in GBU).
We've talked about this one before. There is no doubt that the English dub of Indio's voice was done by someone other than Volonte. However, Frayling may not be wrong. Perhaps Volonte recorded a dub-track for his character but it wasn't used.

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« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2012, 08:03:43 AM »

GBU Commentary: Frayling says that there were 3 times that the war intervenes to save one of the characters. But i counted at least 4:

1) The cannon hits the hotel where Blondie is about to be hanged

2) The "Carriage of the Spirits" distracts Tuco as he is about to shoot Blondie

3) The train whistle distracts Wallace as he is about to thump Tuco

4) While Blondie and Tuco are shooting it out with Angel Eyes's gang in the bombed out town,  two gang members are about to shoot Blondie and Tuco in the back when a canon hits, providing cover for Blondie and Tuco

(I think that by each individual scene where the War intervenes to save them, Frayling points it out. It's just that he's having trouble with his adding  Wink)

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« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2012, 08:07:25 AM »

We've talked about this one before. There is no doubt that the English dub of Indio's voice was done by someone other than Volonte. However, Frayling may not be wrong. Perhaps Volonte recorded a dub-track for his character but it wasn't used.

well if Volonte was contractually obliged to do it but that wasn't the version used, then Frayling should have been more specific.

Yes, many of the items here have been discussed elsewhere, in various threads. But I think it's good to have one place where we can list them all.

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« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2012, 04:33:48 PM »

Re: Why not Frayling?Huh
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2006, 03:58:02 PM »    
Quote from: Aguirre on October 07, 2006, 12:30:47 PM
He did the commentary for Once Upon in a America, so I imagine his input isn't so bad.


The guy said "yesterday" is a John Lennon song. his credibility went out the window after that.

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« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2012, 11:46:02 PM »

Re: Why not Frayling?Huh
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2006, 03:58:02 PM »    
Quote from: Aguirre on October 07, 2006, 12:30:47 PM
He did the commentary for Once Upon in a America, so I imagine his input isn't so bad.


The guy said "yesterday" is a John Lennon song. his credibility went out the window after that.

Yes, Frayling did say that Yesterday is a John Lennon song. It is actually McCartney who sings it. (Is it possible that Lennon composed it?) Anyway, that does seem to be another mistake by Frayling.

However, the place where Frayling says this is in his book called Something to Do With Death. It is not on the commentary to OUATIA -- because  Frayling did NOT do the commentary to OUATIA!

--------------------

I just want to re-iterate that the purpose of this thread is to correct mistakes for the record. But it is NOT to bash Frayling or be disrespectful. Frayling has done an enormous amount of research into Leone's life, way back from the days of the Dollars films. Frayling made it his life's mission to spread the greatness of Leone, long before critics were taking Leone seriously. Carla Leone fondly recalls Frayling being the first one to reach out to Leone and be interested in him; Sergio himself was thrilled when reading Spaghetti Westerns to find out information that Frayling wrote about his father's life that Sergio himself wasn't aware of!  Frayling is probably responsible for the vast majority of knowledge we have about Leone -- both his personal life, and the behind the scenes stuff on the making of his movies, etc. Were it not for Frayling, I'd probably know 10% as much as I do know about Leone. With works of this magnitude -- including doing research on stuff that happened decades ago, which in many cases involves people no longer alive -- there are bound to be mistakes. And yes, there are some times when Frayling even makes some blatant mistakes about basic facts in movies (eg. when he says that Noodles took a train to Buffalo, when he clearly asks for the "first bus"). But please, let's not turn this into a personal-bashing thread. It's important to correct any mistakes, for the historical record. But let's not get personal. I think we owe Sir Christopher a lot of gratitude

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« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2012, 02:11:04 AM »

Yesterday was written solely by McCartney.
It was also recorded without any other Beatles member playing on it.

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« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2012, 02:22:16 AM »

Frayling made it his life's mission to spread the greatness of Leone, long before critics were taking Leone seriously.

This is maybe true (maybe not) for the USA, but surely not for Europe. Leone's reputation was vastly growing throughout the 70s.

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« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2012, 02:30:36 AM »

In the introduction to the Cinema Retro Dollars Trilogy Special Edition, Frayling writes,

Sergio Leone's widow once came up to me, at the opening of the Calle Sergio Leone in Almeria, and said to me, "You were the first, and for that I'll always be grateful." She was right, and it was a wonderful moment.

Sure, I'm not saying nobody gave a damn about Leone before Frayling did. But he is certainly the leading authority on Leone, at least in the English language. I can't speak about other languages/countries. And I've been unable to find other good books about Leone written in English. (Robert Cunbow's book is a piece of trash). It's been more than 20 years after Leone's death and nobody else has attempted a biography. I think it's pretty much agreed amongst (English speaking) fans and critics that STDWD is the definitive work on Leone's life.

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« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2012, 02:48:44 AM »

When I started reading about films (1979 oopps) Leone was already a highly regarded director, not by everyone of course, but by the majority.

When OUATIA started in 1984 he was treated as a an grand old man of cinema.

It is true that the Dollar trilogy was mostly bashed, but with OuTW his reputation began steadily to grow. There were already books about him in the 70s. Oreste de Fornari's book was first published in 1977.

But Frayling surely belonged to the earliest who recognized the quality of Leone's work (he wrote about him already back in 1970), especially for the English speaking world where European westerns were mostly despised.

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« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2012, 06:02:38 AM »

He's definitely the one who's done the most research

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« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2012, 06:51:15 AM »

This is maybe true (maybe not) for the USA, but surely not for Europe. Leone's reputation was vastly growing throughout the 70s.


Most of the old guard critics (Crowther, Kael, Sarris) treated Leone with contempt, if not active hatred. Certainly their reviews reek of condescension and critical arrogance. Strangely Roger Ebert seems to have been one of the few who liked (most of) Leone's stuff back then.

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