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: Vertigo (1958)  ( 60646 )
drinkanddestroy
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« #15 : September 14, 2012, 03:33:22 PM »

Here's someone who doesn't like the colors on the DCP restoration: http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2012/09/still_screwed_u_1.php

Difficult to know how to take this. As far as I can determine, these are pretty much the colors we've had on VHS/LD/DVD since the 1996 restoration. Maybe they're just more noticeable in 2K/4K.

so according to this guy, the colors are fine on the dvd but no good on the blu ray?

Then I'll just get the dvd   ;)


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« #16 : September 15, 2012, 12:51:52 AM »

Actually, most of his films don't deal with "the big secret that explains things" kind of approach.

Yes they don't, but often there is the question who is the murderer (also a secret), and this question is mostly answered early in the films. But there are also exceptions.

Vertigo belongs to his fathomless films, which are according to the S&S list are favoured now by the film people. But most of his films are more "entertainments", with North By Northwest being the masterpiece of this group.


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« #17 : September 15, 2012, 01:27:07 AM »

It's interesting to note that Hithcock didn't really like Vertigo. It didn't perform that good with the audience at the time (that's the main reason) and he didn't like Nowak.


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« #18 : September 15, 2012, 07:33:07 AM »

It's interesting to note that Hithcock didn't really like Vertigo. It didn't perform that good with the audience at the time (that's the main reason) and he didn't like Nowak.
He said different things about it at different times. According to Stephen Rabello, when he told AH  that V was his favorite of AH's films, Hitch actually teared up!



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« #19 : September 15, 2012, 08:08:51 AM »

He said different things about it at different times. According to Stephen Rabello, when he told AH  that V was his favorite of AH's films, Hitch actually teared up!

May be he felt something close to what Leone felt for DYS.
Anyway, my source is the (must-have must-read lust-everything) Hitchcock/Truffaut, which is, by the way (and by far) the greatest cinema book ever.


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« #20 : September 15, 2012, 09:17:16 AM »

It's an interesting read. V is given short shrift there, however, perhaps because it wasn't a favorite of Truffaut's. And then, of course, you also have to  take into account that AH could tell whoppers bigger than those told by SL.



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« #21 : September 15, 2012, 10:53:29 AM »

It's an interesting read. V is given short shrift there, however, perhaps because it wasn't a favorite of Truffaut's. And then, of course, you also have to  take into account that AH could tell whoppers bigger than those told by SL.

Ha ha, yes probably ...

But anyway, it is indeed one of the best film books ever. 


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« #22 : September 15, 2012, 06:57:47 PM »

It's interesting to note that Hithcock didn't really like Vertigo. It didn't perform that good with the audience at the time (that's the main reason) and he didn't like Nowak.

Sorry Hitch, but Novak delivers a fabulous performance here.

I also read (two sourced citations on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangers_on_a_Train_%28film%29#Cast   ) that Hitch didn't like Ruth Roman, and only used her for Strangers on a Train cuz Jack Warner forced him to, since Ruth was under contract at Warner Bros. And I love Ruth and certainly don't think she was "lacking in sex appeal."


I just read Ebert's review of Vertigo, and he has this whole theory about how Hitch used and abused his women as a way of exorcising his fantasies, but Vertigo is the closest he came to sympathizing with the girls http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19961013/REVIEWS08/401010371/1023 I am not familiar enough with all his movies to comment on that. [But Ebert is correct that Hitch liked blondes, maybe that is why he hated on the lovely Ruth Roman]).

« : December 23, 2012, 06:10:57 PM drinkanddestroy »

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« #23 : September 16, 2012, 02:37:08 PM »

But Drink asked not about the moment the secret was revealed, but about the way it was revealed. By that flashback.
If that's the case, perhaps he'll be interested in this quote from the screenwriter. In the 80s, after Vertigo became available again (the estate had had it and 4 other titles on moritorium), Sam Taylor attended a screening at Pace University and offered some remarks afterwards. His words were published in the anthology Hitchcock's Re-released Films (1991) and I here excerpt the relative passages:

Quote
But the thing that struck me most about the picture, seeing it today after twenty-eight years, was the place where, I think, Hitchcock and I goofed. It is in the second part of the picture. You see, this picture falls into two acts very nicely, and both acts end with the same scene: a fall from the tower. At the end of the first fall from the tower, you could almost go blank on the screen in the plaza and then pan up to the coroner's inquest scene which is the start of the second act.

. . .

Anway, we're into the second act and you have the coroner's scene and you have what I call my Mozart scene: Midge talking about Mozart to Scottie at the sanitarium. At that point I should have said, and Hitchcock should have said: "What about the girl?" I think it's a flaw because even though the audience doesn't know who the girl is and what her function is, we, the authors, do, and it was our obligation to tell the audience what we knew so that the audience would also know. If we had done that we wouldn't have had scenes of a man pathetically wondering around San Francisco looking for a ghost.

Actually, ethos is better than pathos, always. You can call that Taylor's rule. We should have at that point said, "What about the girl?" Because we knew what we had to say to the audience. There was no point in saving the surprise for the end of the film. Surprise is a highly overrated commodity in literature and in birthdays. We did it in a very inept way. That letter scene startled me. How bad it is!

. . .

Anyway, here is what we should have done. After the Mozart scene, we should have said, "What about the girl? This is the time to tell the audience what is happening." And we should have gone back to Gavin Elster. . . . We should have had a scene between him and the girl which could have been a very strong scene. I realized it watching the picture today. It suddenly occurred to me what fools we were not to play that scene because you would know from the scene she realized she was being ditched and left behind. In other words, the "argument scene" was gone. We played that offstage. But you would get a much stronger feeling about the girl if she had to face Gavin Elster and say, "You're going away, and without me."
pp. 289-291



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« #24 : September 16, 2012, 02:40:45 PM »

so according to this guy, the colors are fine on the dvd but no good on the blu ray?
That's not necessarily the case. He's saying the colors were fine on the '96 restoration 70mm prints. He makes no remark about the DVDs or the Blu-ray. He is comparing his memory of the prints with what he saw on DCP.



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« #25 : September 16, 2012, 03:12:40 PM »

Thanks for the interesting info, dj  O0

Yeah, I thought that revealing it with Judy's own flashback was bad. As alternatives, I was thinking of having a scene between Judy and Gavin, or some other way (glad the screenwriter agrees with me). Anyway, I guess you have to accept the whole Mona Lisa, as is, eh?   ;)


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« #26 : September 16, 2012, 03:15:54 PM »

I just read Ebert's review of Vertigo, and he has this whole theory about how Hitch used and abused his women as a way of exorcising his fantasies, but Vertigo is the closest he came to sympathizing with the girls http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19961013/REVIEWS08/401010371/1023 I am not familiar enough with all his movies to comment on that. [But Ebert is correct that Hitch liked blondes, maybe that is why he hated on the lovely Ruth Roman]).
You have to remember that Ebert has no ideas of his own. He steals them all, every one. In this case he is channeling Donald Spoto, whose biography of AH (now widely discredited) was called The Dark Side of Genius.

Spoto's problems are two-fold. First, he assumes he knows what Hitchcock's fantasies were, and he makes that assumption based on the films H made. But did H make the films for himself, or for what he thought his audience wanted? Is there any evidence that H had any interest in the subjects he filmed apart from work? What did he do when he went home? (In fact we know, he liked to read biographies of statesmen and military heroes). What did his family have to say about him? Did his daughter and his grandchildren tell stories about his ghoulish private life? (In fact, they all said how normal he was, how unlike his public persona). Spoto's basic premise was so much B.S.

Then there are the films: yeah, H had films where women characters were victims or potential victims (Rebecca, Suspicion, Under Capricorn, Notorious, Dial M), but that was par for the course in the 40s and 50s when women were the bulk of the cinema-going audience (and H was hardly unique with this kind of approach). But H also made films where the women take charge and either solve the problem themselves or are at least on equal footing with the male hero. Who does most of the chance-taking in Rear Window? Who joins the hero on his adventures in Young and Innocent?Who is ready to take up a life of crime with Cary Grant in To Catch a Thief? Who rushes to the Albert Hall to foil an assassination attempt in The Man Who Knew Too Much? (1956). And in the earlier version of that film, when the police sharpshooter has a failure of nerve and in unable to kill the goon on the rooftop menacing the little girl, who is it that raises a rifle and cooly dispatches the threat? Answer in all cases: Hitchcock's action women.

Hitchcock could torture his female characters (as he could torture his male characters), but he also put up plenty of examples of tough broads as well. He could swing either way. It all depended on the properties being developed. It all depended on the writing.



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« #27 : September 16, 2012, 03:23:50 PM »

And don't forget Madeliene's green car (maybe her "husband" gave her that specifically cuz it stands out and would be so easy to follow)
The game can go on and on. After fishing Madeleine out of the drink, Scotty takes the unconscious woman home. When she awakens, with nothing to wear (as her clothes are drying) the woman dons one of Scotty's robes. A very red one.

Judy is introduced as Madeleine was, in profile. And in a green dress.



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« #28 : September 17, 2012, 01:28:53 AM »

Quote
"Surprise is a highly overrated commodity in literature and in birthdays"


... and especially, and very, very especially in thrillers and detective films.


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« #29 : September 22, 2012, 12:51:04 PM »

The shooting script is here: http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/vertigo.html

Earlier drafts (prior to Taylor's involvement) are extant, but academics are keeping them to themselves.



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