The novel

[titoli]

Anybody read it?

[cigar joe]

is it another novelization?

[dave jenkins]

Yeah, a novel is not a novelization. Let's use the right terms.

[noodles_leone]

... but a novelization is a novel, isn't it?

[titoli]

Yeah, a novel is not a novelization. Let's use the right terms.

Sure. But that depends on whether the book in question was written before the movie was made or after. If the writer based himself on a screenplay (like Millard did for GBU) and not on the movie itself, then I think it is correct to speak of a "novel". What, in fact,  
if the movie doesn't go beyond the pre-production stage?
Having not read the book,like Jenkins apparently did, I assumed the same procedure adopted for GBU was in operation.So "novel", at least until Jenkins tells us more about the whole affair, stays.

[Dust Devil]

Sure. But that depends on whether the book in question was written before the movie was made or after. If the writer based himself on a screenplay (like Millard did for GBU) and not on the movie itself, then I think it is correct to speak of a "novel".

Indeed, I was just about to write that myself.

[dave jenkins]

Sure. But that depends on whether the book in question was written before the movie was made or after. If the writer based himself on a screenplay (like Millard did for GBU) and not on the movie itself, then I think it is correct to speak of a "novel".

No, regardless of whether it was based on the film itself or the screenplay, the work that is produced afterwards is generally called a novelization. Films are sometimes based on novels; novelizations are based on films or film screenplays. If you speak of the "novel" in the case of DYS you will lead the unwitting to believe that Leone's film is an adaptation. This is why Joe had to ask you his question: the formulation you used was confusing.

[moviesceleton]

So if a novel based on a film is a novelization (and not a novel), what is a film based on a novel, then? Obviously it's not a film...

[Dust Devil]

So if a novel based on a film is a novelization (and not a novel), what is a film based on a novel, then? Obviously it's not a film...

Following DJ's logic: it's a filmization.

[titoli]

No, regardless of whether it was based on the film itself or the screenplay, the work that is produced afterwards is generally called a novelization. Films are sometimes based on novels; novelizations are based on films or film screenplays. If you speak of the "novel" in the case of DYS you will lead the unwitting to believe that Leone's film is an adaptation. This is why Joe had to ask you his question: the formulation you used was confusing.

"the work that is produced afterwards". We actually don't know yet when it was produced. It might have been produced between two versions of the screenplay heavily different (and the blurb on one of the books makes me assume it might be the case) and, as in the case of GBU, displaying elements which change the impression left by the movie:which is not what a novelization is presumed to be, i.e. simply putting images into words. If I give the novelist (or "novelizator", using your vocabulary) words to be put into other words  his imagination will have a much freer rein than having to put into words some images. In fact you could consider the screenplay  of a not yet made movie simply a stage of the creation of a novel. 

[stanton]

A novelization is in the end always also a novel, while a novel is only rarely a novelization.

Verfilmung ("Filmization") is a standard term in Germany to describe films made out of books.

[cigar joe]

"the work that is produced afterwards". We actually don't know yet when it was produced. It might have been produced between two versions of the screenplay heavily different (and the blurb on one of the books makes me assume it might be the case) and, as in the case of GBU, displaying elements which change the impression left by the movie:which is not what a novelization is presumed to be, i.e. simply putting images into words. If I give the novelist (or "novelizator", using your vocabulary) words to be put into other words  his imagination will have a much freer rein than having to put into words some images. In fact you could consider the screenplay  of a not yet made movie simply a stage of the creation of a novel. 

Yea the blurb makes wonder.

[stanton]

And it is btw pretty idiotic to make a novel out of a Leone film. At least not off his westerns.

[Groggy]

True but it generated a funny discussion.

[dave jenkins]

A novelization is in the end always also a novel, while a novel is only rarely a novelization.

That puts it well. The point is that the term "novelization" can be useful, but only if it is used.