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Author Topic: Do American ever remember the loss and sacrifice of the Civil war...  (Read 2679 times)
Groggy
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« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2013, 06:36:45 AM »

Buchanan had no problems sending troops to suppress attempted secession by Utah Territory a few years prior to the war. I wouldn't put much stock into his views on the matter.

As for Woods, his books are best bought in bulk and used for toilet paper.

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drinkanddestroy
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« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2013, 07:08:07 AM »

I've never read Woods'  books, but I have seen some of his articles and videos, including one where he discusses what I said previously.

I'm not defending or opposing Woods here, I can't say I've seen much of his stuff, but considering the fact that you use basically use the term "crazy libertarian" as a redundant phrase, I'm not sure how much you are judging Woods'  actual writing or whether you'd say the same things about the works of all the adherents to the Austrian School of Economics.


btw, if you are interested in the legal/political history of presidential power, you can check out John Yoo's book called "Crisis and Command," in which he demonstrates how those presidents who generally land on top of every "Greatest Presidents" poll, are the ones who took an aggressive view of presidential power in responding to crises. http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Command-History-Executive-Washington/dp/1607145553
(Yoo was a legal scholar who believed that presidents have very strong Constitutional powers, long before he became (in)famous in Bush's Office of Legal Counsel for his legal opinions on the War on Terror)

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« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2013, 07:11:24 AM »

Woods isn't so much a libertarian as he is a white supremacist nut job. He's an active member of the League of the South, a white/southern nationalist group. Thomas DiLorenzo is the libertarian that I was referring to.

It's been awhile since I've read Woods' PIG Guide to American History, but I remember such idiotic tidbits as:

- Early America was settled almost exclusively by British settlers. Well, that's true if you exclude the Dutch, Swedes, Spanish, French and assorted latecomers.

- The Founding Fathers, who by and large advocated a democratic republic, were conservatives, in an era when the status quo was monarchy.

- Secession was legal because John Calhoun said so.

- The Civil War had nothing at all to do with slavery, because the average Northern and Southern soldier didn't care about slavery.

- He discusses Reconstruction as a long night of unprovoked, vindictive Yankee barbarism towards white Southerners, not mentioning the Ku Klux Klan or associated anti-black/Republican violence once.

- There were no German atrocities against Belgium in World War I. It was all Allied propaganda. (The people of Leuven would love to hear that!)

- The US had no reason to get involved in World War II. Nazi Germany wasn't a threat to anyone, and the Soviet Union was worse. Let alone Japan.

- Korea was the first time American troops had been sent abroad without a Declaration of War. Ignore the Barbary Pirate Wars, the Boxer Rebellion or our constant interventions in Latin America I suppose.
 
- Brown Vs. Board of Education was an egregious, unnecessary case of judicial activism. Dredd Scott and Plessey Vs. Ferguson, however, apparently were just fine.

- Joe McCarthy was a great American hero.

So fuck Mr. Woods. He's a pathetic charlatan ideologue with zero grasp of history or common sense.

As for DiLorenzo, I'd best not say anything or I'd be writing a book. Evil

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« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2013, 07:18:13 AM »

haha well as I said I never read any of Woods's books, I just saw a couple of his articles and videos. I do think that there is certain school of libertarianism that, while I agree with their economic views, lives in a fantasy world when it comes to foreign policy. Some of those guys from the Von Mises Institute are more than a little nuts.
who was behind those Ron Paul newsletters, besides Ron Paul? I heard a little bit of chatter about the possibility that it may have been Lew Rockwell.



« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 07:20:31 AM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2013, 07:26:01 AM »

Well, true. I'm all for small government but one must make allowances for the real world rather than dwelling on pure theory. I have a friend who's obsessed with Ayn Rand and he can't get it through his head that the literal application of her ideas would be unworkable.

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« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2013, 07:48:29 AM »

Well, true. I'm all for small government but one must make allowances for the real world rather than dwelling on pure theory. I have a friend who's obsessed with Ayn Rand and he can't get it through his head that the literal application of her ideas would be unworkable.

I haven't read Rand's works, but I think a literal application of capitalism would be more than workable.

But not having a standing army? That would be suicidal.

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« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2013, 07:51:46 AM »

Do you have real-world evidence to back up this assertion? Also, define "work."

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« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2013, 07:59:20 AM »

firstly, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

secondly, we definitely used to have a more capitalistic economy in the 1800's. and other countries had more capitalistic economies as well, and survived very well (eg. with private banking and no Federal Reserve system). The price of goods is determined by the free market, and there is no reason why the price of money should not be determined by the free market, but by a few people  at the Fed. Here is a debate I was involved in arranging, entitled "Is the Federal Reserve System Broken?" http://blip.tv/twoway-street/is-the-federal-reserve-system-broken-2402923 George Selgin is one of the foremost scholars on Banking)

there aren't any truly capitalist societies today, but in general, gov't regulation keeps growing. It's natural that as time goes by, politicians will try to increase rather than decrease their power.

As for a capitalist economy being "workable," it means such an economy would be more moral, more free, and more prosperous for everyone, from those with the most skills/abilities/intelligence/education to those with the least

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« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2013, 08:05:59 AM »

alright, you can get the last word, I'm done here. This thread has strayed much further into politics than what I am interested in Wink

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« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2013, 08:11:14 AM »

Quote
As for a capitalist economy being "workable," it means such an economy would be more moral, more free, and more prosperous for everyone, from those with the most skills/abilities/intelligence/education to those with the least

Or it would lead to massive corporate corruption, manipulation/control of government by special interests and drastic economic stratification between rich and poor. As is certainly the case today. The fallacy here is reflexively assuming people in government = bad and corrupt and people in business = good and moral, a formulation I can't abide.

I'm not sure how much I'd laud the "freedom" of the 1800s either. Do you really want to go back to the days of six day workweeks, $1 a day paychecks, the company store and Pinkertons machine-gunning strikers? I guess some would.

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« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2013, 08:12:50 AM »

Anyway, to get back on topic I've just started Shelby Foote's The Civil War: A Narrative. Three volumes of around 800-900 pages each. Considered a must-read by almost everyone yet I haven't read it up until now.

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