Sergio Leone Web Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 18, 2017, 08:02:06 PM
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
News:


+  Sergio Leone Web Board
|-+  Other/Miscellaneous
| |-+  Off-Topic Discussion (Moderators: cigar joe, moviesceleton, Dust Devil)
| | |-+  Abe Lincoln in Illionois (1940)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Abe Lincoln in Illionois (1940)  (Read 951 times)
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Online Online

Posts: 8302

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« on: February 12, 2013, 10:32:58 PM »

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032181/


saw Abe Lincoln in Illinois (1940) on TCM.
It gets a 6.5/10 in my book

Cast:

Raymond MasseyasAbraham Lincoln
Gene Lockhart -----------------------  Stephen Douglas
Ruth Gordon -------------------------- Mary Todd Lincoln
Mary Howard ------------------------- Ann Rutledge
Minor Watson --------------------------Joshua Speed
Alan Baxter ----------------------------Billy Herndon
Hervey Stephens --------------------- Ninian Edwards
Howard Da Silva ---------------------- Jack Armstrong (as Howard da Silva)
Dorothy Tree --------------------------- Elizabeth Edwards
Aldruch Bowker ------------------------ Judge Bowlong Green





I've never read any Lincoln bios (not that bios have anything necessarily to do with a movie character), but I find it to be a silly notion that the 16th prez was just some dumb simple-minded hick with nop ambition other than being a lawyer, basically had to be forced by his wife to advance in politics, he actually didn't give a rat's ass about winning the election for president, like he was forced into it against his will, he was basically an almost unwilling participant there for the ride the only active and willing part he played, and the only time he was forceful, was giving inspirational speeches
BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT

In order to go through all the insane levels of power, politics, money, campaigning, handhsking, etc. to win any election, especially a presidential election, it is necessary that the candidate have an insane all-encompassing desire for power that mot humans woudln't dream of. It's like a ball game that lasts 6 months: if you make one tiny error, or if your opponent gets one kick past you, etrc.  you can lose a 6 month game, a game made up of so many elements. iff your drive is slightly less than your opponents, your efforts a tad less, a motivated opponent will crush you. presidential campaigning is ruthless

In short: I don't believe for a moment that Lincoln was anything less than a forceful, motivated, politically shrewd, smart, and terrib;y wanted that job as Prez. Of course, I beluive that he may have been an idealist who truly only wanted the power so as to advocate for what he believed to be justice (eg. keeping the union together, ending slavery, etc)

Maybe I am just comparing him to the political candidates of today (where you have to be insanely power hungry, willing to undergo all that scrutiny and grueling work. it probably was less work back then, less scrutiny etc.

but the bottom line is: especially since this is not Abe Lincoln but Movie character Lincioln, I think it's ridiculous for us to believe that the 16th President (whom many believe to be among the 3 greatest of all time) was some dumb reefneck who didn't know or give a fuck abput anyth but reading and the law, and didn't care about politics including abput the presidency

I believe he had proper intentions and was only fighting for what he believed was right, not just for power-hungriness. But I am sure Lincoln fought like fucking hell in that campaign, he was strongly motivated to win, that he agonized over every vote that went against him,  he certainly was thrilled when he won (if a bit apprehensive, as is understandabe) and that his winning was a result of a  hard-fought political campaign that Lincioln wanted desperately to win.

I find it silly how it tries to portray him as  noble because he somehow won the presidency against his weill  Shocked


ANYWAY, that's my opinion of Lincoln's motivations.

About the other stuff: Massy as Lincoln was decent. His makeup was decent -- his head has the same shape as Abe, and with the hat and beard he looked reasonably as  Lincoln Halloween imporsonator would, but nowhere near the transformation that Daniel Day-Lewis had where he ooks almost exactl;y as if he is Abe himself. Fond'a makeup in Young Mr. Lincoln was better (though you could see the paint clearly at the line on top of his forehead in which ithe makeup ended.
Fonda used his real voice (just in a slow, polite, shy, drawl); Day-Lewis changed his voice completely which sounded amazing (though I've no clue how Abe actually sounded); Massey kind of sounded as if -- no insults intended here against anyone -- he sounded as if he was trying to mimic some dimwitted guy  in the town. Like there's this one dimwit soft spoken guy who stupid and talks as if he is half retarded; that is how Massey sounded. I prefer Fonda's natural voice to Massey's phony ayyampt at a Lincoln voice


To compare the 3 Lincolns, in the three impotrant categories: makeup; voice; performance
 IMO
------------------------------------
Henry Fonda:2nd best voice, 2nd best makeup, second best performance
--------------------------------------
Raymond Massey:worst voice, worst makeup, worst performance
--=----------------------------------
Daniel Day-Lewis: Best Makeup, Best Voice, best performance


When I think of movie Lincolns: it's Daniel Day-Lewis. When I think a young movie Lincoln, it's Henry Fonda

all 3 movies rank somewhere between 6-7/10

« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 10:45:17 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2013, 10:10:24 AM »

For one, you misspelled Illinois.

Until Day-Lewis, Massey was the iconic screen Lincoln and with good reason. Besides his striking resemblance, Massey's how people want to think of Lincoln: plainspoken, eloquent, determined, commands a room by his mere presence. And there lies the power in his performance.

Massey isn't affecting any "retarded" voice. That's his voice.

One area it may have Ford beat is the supporting cast: Gene Lockhart's Stephen Douglas is a gem.

Granted, Abe Lincoln in Illinois isn't nearly as good as Young Mr. Lincoln but they're not really comparable. Ford's movie is a poetic mediation on the Lincoln myth. This movie is a conventional Great Man biopic, albeit a good one.

« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 10:13:56 AM by Groggy » Logged


Saturday nights with Groggy
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Online Online

Posts: 8302

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2013, 11:44:42 AM »

For one, you misspelled Illinois.

Until Day-Lewis, Massey was the iconic screen Lincoln and with good reason. Besides his striking resemblance, Massey's how people want to think of Lincoln: plainspoken, eloquent, determined, commands a room by his mere presence. And there lies the power in his performance.

Massey isn't affecting any "retarded" voice. That's his voice.

One area it may have Ford beat is the supporting cast: Gene Lockhart's Stephen Douglas is a gem.

Granted, Abe Lincoln in Illinois isn't nearly as good as Young Mr. Lincoln but they're not really comparable. Ford's movie is a poetic mediation on the Lincoln myth. This movie is a conventional Great Man biopic, albeit a good one.

I didn't love either ALIL or YML, but I prefer YML. And I prefer Fonda to Massey. Fonda just used his real voice. Massey is definitely not using his real voice; he is obviously faking a voice. to sound like some simple dumb cluck. with no ambition, no interest in doing anything but running a general store.
being honest and idealistic is no contradiction with being focused, determined, energetic, and having a passion to do what it takes to succeed, even politically. That's how he is depicted in YML. In ALIL, it's like his wife needs to feed him his supper or he'll forget to eat.

(true, Daniel Day-Lewis is not using his real voice, but his impersonation is incredible, it doesn't seem impersonated at all, it seems perfectly natural. IMO, Day-Lewis is easily the best Lincoln performance, and his makeup is the best Lincoln look-alike too

« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 01:28:56 AM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2013, 12:56:43 PM »

Quote
Massey is definitely not using his real voice; he is obviously faking a voice. to sound like some simple dumb cluck. with no ambition, no interest in doing anything but running a secular store.

How familiar are you with Massey's work?

Logged


Saturday nights with Groggy
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Online Online

Posts: 8302

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2013, 01:36:37 AM »

whoops, I'm not sure why my keyboard typed "secular store," I meant to say "general store,"  Grin

I have definitely seen Massey in other movies (East of Eden, Carson City, Possessed, The Woman in the Window, to name a few).


Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
drinkanddestroy
Global Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Online Online

Posts: 8302

trust a man who wears both a belt and suspenders?


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2013, 01:38:53 AM »

I just read this editorial/book review http://www.jeffjacoby.com/12941/abolition-word-by-word on American Antislavery Writings: Colonial Beginnings to Emancipation a recently-published collection of 216 anti-slavery writings by 158 different authors

« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 01:41:26 AM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

There are three types of people in the world, my friend: those who can add, and those who can't.
Groggy
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11458


This post gets Agnew's stamp of approval!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2013, 08:15:54 AM »

Cool find. Afro

Logged


Saturday nights with Groggy
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Visit FISTFUL-OF-LEONE.COM

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.035 seconds with 19 queries.