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Author Topic: [VIDEO ESSAY] The Art of Editing in GBU  (Read 3039 times)
noodles_leone
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« on: July 08, 2014, 02:07:44 PM »

Very interesting. It's weird but I never noticed the permutation of the shots in the triello.

https://vimeo.com/86125935

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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2014, 03:15:19 PM »

Very interesting. It's weird but I never noticed the permutation of the shots in the triello.

https://vimeo.com/86125935
It is interesting, although I don't agree with the way the guy interprets all the individual shots. Leone is not only showing us what the characters may be thinking, he is not only building suspense, he is ALSO withholding information that is necessary for the scene to pay off correctly. To wit: he is keeping from us the fact that Tuco's gun has been unloaded. Any hint of that fact must be withheld, and that affects the way in which the scene is edited. Therefore, it is necessary for Blondie to treat Tuco as if he were as much a threat as AE is. He knows Tuco's gun is unloaded, but he must appear to not know that, for the benefit of the audience's reception. Leone would have chosen a different arrangement of shots if that were not the case. Misdirection is an essential element of the scene. An ex post facto re-interpretation of the scene where Blondie is seen to be giving Tuco reassuring looks is just BS.

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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2014, 03:22:27 PM »

very interesting; thanks for sharing, n_l  Afro

here is what I don't agree with him on. He says that since Blondie knows Tuco's gun is unloaded, he can focus solely on Angel Eyes, so he has the clear advantage, of course. However, he then says that Blondie also needs to make sure that Angel Eyes doesn't shoot Tuco. I don't think I agree with that. He seems to think that Blondie and Tuco really have an alliance, that Blondie has Tuco's back. Do you really think Blondie gives a damn if AE shoots Tuco? As long as Blondie shoots AE, Blondie lives and gets the gold. Doesn't matter what happens to Tuco.
Of course, at the end, Blondie does leave half the gold for Tuco; the audience has come to love both of them, so it really has to happen that way, that they split the gold. However, during the standoff, I don't think Blondie is concerning himself with what happens to Tuco; I don't think he gives a damn. (A moment earlier, Tuco tried fleeing on the horse and getting all the gold for himself!) Once Tuco survives, Blondie is willing to split the gold with him, fine. But I don't think that during the standoff, Blondie gives a damn about anything other than shooting AE before AE can shoot Blondie.
I suppose you can argue that since Blondie unloaded Tuco's gun – violating the rules of fair play – he feels a responsibility to keep Tuco alive; that if AE would shoot Tuco, that would effectively mean that Blondie shot Tuco in the back, violating the Western rules of fair play. But IMO, Blondie doesn't give a damn about anything other than shooting AE before AE can shoot Blondie. As far as Blondie is concerned, Tuco is irrelevant in this standoff.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 03:25:13 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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noodles_leone
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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2014, 04:13:13 PM »

Yes and yes.

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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2014, 11:50:13 AM »

But IMO, Blondie doesn't give a damn about anything other than shooting AE before AE can shoot Blondie. As far as Blondie is concerned, Tuco is irrelevant in this standoff.
Except that Blondie has to pretend that he IS relevant so the audience will be fooled.

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noodles_leone
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2014, 12:06:19 PM »

The audience and AE, who isn't stupid and is trying to decide who he's gonna shoot.

I think the audience is in the position of Tuco during this scene. We're tricked into participating to a challenge and are remembered in the end that we were never part of it.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 12:07:43 PM by noodles_leone » Logged


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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2014, 12:23:02 PM »

I don't think Blondie has to pretend for the sake of fooling the audience. (For the sake of fooling AE, maybe.) It doesn't cross anybody's mind, on first viewing, that Tuco's gun might be unloaded.

Either way, I can't agree with the idea that Blondie is genuinely concerned about AE shooting Tuco. Just a few minutes earlier, Tuco ran away to try to get all the gold for himself. (The only real question, then, is why Blondie didn't take all the gold for himself when he had Tuco tied up. That, of course, is purely for the movie's sake - we've come to love Blondie and Tuco, and their "partnership," so the only appropriate movie ending is to have the two of them split the gold.)

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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2014, 02:00:13 PM »

I don't think Blondie has to pretend for the sake of fooling the audience.
Of course he does.
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(For the sake of fooling AE, maybe.)
Yes, that too. It's the character's motivation for doing what he does in the scene.
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It doesn't cross anybody's mind, on first viewing, that Tuco's gun might be unloaded
Of course not. That's because Blondie (and Leone) have fooled the audience!

Quote
Either way, I can't agree with the idea that Blondie is genuinely concerned about AE shooting Tuco. Just a few minutes earlier, Tuco ran away to try to get all the gold for himself. (The only real question, then, is why Blondie didn't take all the gold for himself when he had Tuco tied up. That, of course, is purely for the movie's sake - we've come to love Blondie and Tuco, and their "partnership," so the only appropriate movie ending is to have the two of them split the gold.)
You are repeating yourself.

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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2014, 02:03:57 PM »

....that if AE would shoot Tuco.

 AE would always be shooting at Blondie first , because he probably knows that blondie is the better gun fighter than tuco.. ...Blondie knows this thus making Tuco safe.

 

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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2014, 02:18:02 PM »

....also, makes you think why Blondie didn't do a deal with AE pre-triello.

In the whole 180 minutes of the film, what did Angel eyes ever do to him? Heck, he didn't even beat him up at the PoW camp.

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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2014, 04:33:42 PM »

In the whole 180 minutes of the film, what did Angel eyes ever do to him? Heck, he didn't even beat him up at the PoW camp.
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2014, 05:54:11 PM »

Very interesting. It's weird but I never noticed the permutation of the shots in the triello.

Interesting indeed. However, I'm not sure if I really buy the argument. There is no reason why Baragli should have spent an equal amount of time on each character - e.g. in OUATITW the length of time spent on Elam/fly, Strode/hat and Mulock/knuckles varies considerably.

Couple of other remarks:

- "Trio" isn't really an appropriate translation for "Triello". "Duello" is translated as "Duel" not "Duo" after all.
- The introductory stuff about characters appearing from the edge of the screen is not related to editing. A little nod to Kurosawa could also have been made.

Nonetheless, an interesting take on things.

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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2014, 12:39:29 AM »


- "Trio" isn't really an appropriate translation for "Triello". "Duello" is translated as "Duel" not "Duo" after all.


So waddayasay it should be called? A three-way duel, a trio in a duel, I guess only proper word is Truel  Wink

I believe the term "The Trio" comes from the title of the final track on the soundtrack album. Lotsa shit comes from these song names (e.g., as we all know, one song name from FAFDM was La Resa dei Conti; soon thereafter, a spag of the same name was released, with success, in Italy; and Leone – who seemed to be only too happy to bash other spags – felt compelled to point out that it was a ripoff cuz the movie's title was stolen from his song's title...) Which brings me to the question: Generally, who creates the titles for the songs on a movie soundtrack? Does the composer actually name each song? Or does he just give the music to the record company to put it onto a disc, and some intern there makes up a title?

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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2014, 02:22:18 AM »

A triel of course.

I'm sure that always the composer gives names to the music pieces he creates for a score. But I also assume that these names are chosen less carefully than instrumental pieces on rock or jazz albums.

For me soundtrack music is utility music. It is made to serve the images. There are some great individual tracks sometimes, but soundtrack albums are mostly very repetitive. I never buy them.

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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2014, 08:55:58 AM »

Interesting indeed. However, I'm not sure if I really buy the argument. There is no reason why Baragli should have spent an equal amount of time on each character - e.g. in OUATITW the length of time spent on Elam/fly, Strode/hat and Mulock/knuckles varies considerably.
The function of those 2 scenes, though, is different. It does make sense to give each of the 3 characters almost equal time in the buildup to the final gundown in GBU, because that's the best way to build uncertainty and generate suspense. But there's no reason beyond that.

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- The introductory stuff about characters appearing from the edge of the screen is not related to editing. A little nod to Kurosawa could also have been made.
Absolutely. To say nothing of giving credit to Frayling and Ebert for making the observation in print.

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