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| | |-+  Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!
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Author Topic: Please help me identify where this frame is found in the film!  (Read 14354 times)
Lil Brutto
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« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2014, 02:26:25 PM »

@ Lil Brutto: The 161MV IS available, on the DVD released by MGM in 1997 or 1998. No, it is not available on BRD, but it is available on that DVD - which is all beat up, per your preferences, and which also has as a bonus feature the extra scenes, not including the Cave Scene, with Italian audio and English subtitles. For someone who prefers the 161MV, beat up, with the extra scenes in original Italian audio as a bonus feature and not part of the film itself, this should be the ideal cut.
And it is available for literally pennies used on Amazon.

Yup, I got it.

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« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2014, 02:58:16 PM »

All 3 BRD's used IB prints, yet the outcomes were different? Wouldn't that mean that the various prints looked different, meaning they do fade eventually? Or did they even look different in 1967? Or did MGM/Mondo change the look significantly from the prints the got?
I am not doubting your work/beliefs, I think it is awesome if you can restore it; the point I am trying to get at it is that if these prints are the holy grail and look just like the movie is supposed to look - and surely MGM/Mondo have the money connections to get their hands on one of the rare prints - why didn't they get one of these prints and KEEP THE COLOR AS THEY FOUND IT, instead of screwing around with the color? Is it an immuutable fact that these colors stay the same since 1967? If so, shouldn't MGM/Mondo have simply cleaned up the dirt/scratches etc. but not screwed with the color? Do you know something they don't about the colors being accurate, or is it disputed whether or not these colors are accurate? (again, this question only starts if all 1967 prints, pre-fading, looked the same, of course Wink )

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Lil Brutto
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« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2014, 03:17:58 PM »

All 3 BRD's used IB prints, yet the outcomes were different? Wouldn't that mean that the various prints looked different, meaning they do fade eventually? Or did they even look different in 1967? Or did MGM/Mondo change the look significantly from the prints the got?
I am not doubting your work/beliefs, I think it is awesome if you can restore it; the point I am trying to get at it is that if these prints are the holy grail and look just like the movie is supposed to look - and surely MGM/Mondo have the money connections to get their hands on one of the rare prints - why didn't they get one of these prints and KEEP THE COLOR AS THEY FOUND IT, instead of screwing around with the color? Is it an immuutable fact that these colors stay the same since 1967? If so, shouldn't MGM/Mondo have simply cleaned up the dirt/scratches etc. but not screwed with the color? Do you know something they don't about the colors being accurate, or is it disputed whether or not these colors are accurate? (again, this question only starts if all 1967 prints, pre-fading, looked the same, of course Wink )

Based on my research the dye transfer process - or "imbibition" - used for I.B. Tech prints is low- or no-fade because the dyes are very stable and do not degrade (or degrade very little) over time. You're right, they should have left the colour as they found it.

Undoubtedly there's going to be some variation from print to print but nothing that would explain the huge difference between the Mondo and MGM 4K BDs. It's inevitable that the Italians will release their own 4K BD. Based on the Leone Film Group trailer and screenshots posted last month in promotion of the Italian theatrical re-release it's likely the same master as the 4K MGM BD (not surprising since both parties were involved in the latest restoration effort) yet the colours are much better. So what the heck is going on? I suspect there's some tinkering of colors going on at MGM after the fact. Perhaps even after getting Sergio Salvati's stamp of approval.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2014, 03:37:37 PM by Lil Brutto » Logged

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drinkanddestroy
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« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2014, 04:10:40 PM »

Which colors do you prefer: the original MGM DVD from 1997, or the Mondo BRD?

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Lil Brutto
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« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2014, 04:56:37 PM »

Which colors do you prefer: the original MGM DVD from 1997, or the Mondo BRD?

I prefer Mondo.

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« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2014, 05:30:12 PM »

All 3 BRD's used IB prints, yet the outcomes were different? Wouldn't that mean that the various prints looked different, meaning they do fade eventually? Or did they even look different in 1967? Or did MGM/Mondo change the look significantly from the prints the got?
I am not doubting your work/beliefs, I think it is awesome if you can restore it; the point I am trying to get at it is that if these prints are the holy grail and look just like the movie is supposed to look - and surely MGM/Mondo have the money connections to get their hands on one of the rare prints - why didn't they get one of these prints and KEEP THE COLOR AS THEY FOUND IT, instead of screwing around with the color? Is it an immuutable fact that these colors stay the same since 1967? If so, shouldn't MGM/Mondo have simply cleaned up the dirt/scratches etc. but not screwed with the color? Do you know something they don't about the colors being accurate, or is it disputed whether or not these colors are accurate? (again, this question only starts if all 1967 prints, pre-fading, looked the same, of course Wink )

There is no such thing as "accurate colors" when you transfer analog to digital (or digital to analog). It is by nature an interpretation of colors and human choices have to be made. Sure, that doesn't explain the huge changes between mondo and MGM BDs but different transfers lead to different colors.

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« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2014, 06:32:35 PM »

I have the Mondo BRD's of GBU and FAFDM, but unfortunately they don't have English audio. (The Ripley's BRD of FOD does.) I remember something a while ago about somebody making a fan mix of English audio with the Mondo BRD .... Unfortunately I still haven't been able to get my hand$ on a copy of that fan edit. If $omeone can help me out with that, I $ure would me mo$t appreciative of their $ervice Wink








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Lil Brutto
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« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2014, 04:08:04 PM »

I'm still willing to contribute...if it's possible that this has alternate shots we can't let it get away!

Folks, we're ready to move forward with the purchase of the IB tech print from Italy.

I started a new thread on this project. For more information please click on the link below. :

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-Good-The-Bad-The-Ugly-35MM-IB-Tech-Preservation/topic/17006/

I've been told acquiring this print is probably a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. If you're willing/able to contribute funds, please send to: eurospec19@gmailDOTcom

Thanks!

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« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2014, 04:54:49 AM »

Wait, you say this is an Italian IB print with the English 161 min version. Not the Italian theatrical version?

Or it is the Italain version, but you want to create a Tijuana Edition of this with the English mono audio and the runtime of the International version?

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Lil Brutto
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« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2014, 09:34:52 AM »

This is an IB Tech of the Italian cut. It's primary purpose is to serve as a colour reference for regrading the 4K bluray.

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« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2014, 02:13:30 PM »

So you could mae dvd/brd's of this film and put the English audio from the MGM dvd/brd on it?

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« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2014, 02:49:20 PM »

So you could mae dvd/brd's of this film and put the English audio from the MGM dvd/brd on it?

Correct. We'll be using the English audio from the 1998 MGM laserdisc, which is the same as the 1998 DVD audio track. It sounds fuller/better because it's lossless.

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« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2014, 05:41:27 AM »

Wow, this is an amazing shot!! This shot is described in the original Italian script! Below is the relevant part of the script:

"The heat has worn Blondie down. Nevertheless, he seems to have noticed that Tuco has fallen into a light sleep under his sunshade . . . Blondie looks around as if he is searching for something. About 10 meters in front of him is a white, gnawed animal skeleton. Blondie’s eyes appear to be hypnotized by this sight. He encroaches towards the skeleton. Close-up: Blondie’s hand appears in the frame and he grasps a club-like bone. The camera zooms on to Tuco, who suddenly turns, grabs his revolver and fires a shot. The bone flies out of Blondie’s hand and Tuco threatens him saying, “Don’t try that again. Now, get going!” Blondie sets off again."

The GBU book is complete! End of next week, I have an appointment to make the last changes, then I will have the first complete digital draft.

Best,
Peter

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« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2014, 05:55:44 AM »

In relation to my last post, here is more from the original Italian script so that you can see where the "skeleton shot" fits in:

Desert. The sun is glowing in the sky. Two forms unprotected from the sun are seen wandering in a scorching valley. Tuco is on horseback, and Blondie is walking ahead. [The musical cue for this scene, as described by Charles Leinberger41, “begins with a long and suspenseful introduction featuring a tonally ambiguous and disjunct piano melody accompanied by sustained string tremolos . . . [followed by] a beautiful English horn melody.”] The first part of the desert scene is similar to the film, except the script explicitly states that Tuco fires five shots in rapid succession into Blondie’s water canteen, and then he fires a sixth shot (characteristic 5:1 pattern) which sends Blondie’s hat flying. A little later the revengeful Tuco informs Blondie that the end of the desert is 140 miles away (in the film, Tuco says, “100 miles, that’s a nice walk . . .”). After his short speech, Tuco takes out a parasol from under the saddle, opens it and points it in the direction of the sun. A cut is described in the script: Tuco’s head is dangling and his eyes are heavy from tiredness. He rides past the camera . . . Blondie is now seen in the distance. His steps are heavy and sluggish. The heat has worn Blondie down. Nevertheless, he seems to have noticed that Tuco has fallen into a light sleep under his sunshade . . . Blondie looks around as if he is searching for something. About 10 meters in front of him is a white, gnawed animal skeleton. Blondie’s eyes appear to be hypnotized by this sight. He encroaches towards the skeleton. Close-up: Blondie’s hand appears in the frame and he grasps a club-like bone. The camera zooms on to Tuco, who suddenly turns, grabs his revolver and fires a shot. The bone flies out of Blondie’s hand and Tuco threatens him saying, “Don’t try that again. Now, get going!” Blondie sets off again. Tuco waits until he has gone past, and then he drinks out of his canteen. He also moistens his head and neck.
Blondie struggles as he walks on and on through the desert, and at some point he falls to his knees. Tuco rides around him as he tries to get back onto his feet. Blondie’s lips are one continuous wound, and his eyes are swollen and closed. Through the slits of his eyelids Blondie sees the slope of a dune which appears like an insurmountable wall. He struggles to his feet and tiresomely continues. Tuco rides past him and says tauntingly, “It’s just another 115 miles to the end of the desert, and eight hours until sundown. That’s nothing (he laughs).” Cut or cross dissolve (simultaneously fading out one image as another fades in): Tuco with his parasol opened is seen on horseback observing . . . From below, Blondie is seen approaching on all fours. As Blondie gets to within a few meters of Tuco, he is at the end of his strength and falls face down. Tuco gets down from his horse and cautiously approaches Blondie. Close-up: Blondie is motionless but the clanging of Tuco’s spurs indicates that he is coming closer. Blondie opens his eyes . . . Within a few centimeters of Blondie’s face, Tuco’s boot comes into the frame. In a state of desperation, Blondie plunges towards the boot and grabs it with both hands . . . but the boot is empty. Tuco, a little further away, laughs and slaps his hands on his belly . . . He lies on his back, shakes with laughter and kicks his feet in the air. Blondie is at his limit and lets his face fall again into the sand.

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« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2014, 07:16:11 AM »

thanks  Afro Afro Afro

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