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Author Topic: My Darling Clementine (1946)  (Read 28581 times)
dave jenkins
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« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2009, 06:08:45 PM »

Quote
This is my second viewing of the film
I assume both times you watched the Zanuck-approved version and are ignoring Ford's pre-release, superior version.

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« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2009, 05:59:52 AM »

"Ignoring"? Huh

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« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2009, 06:04:08 AM »

Well, you don't even raise the issue of the two versions . . . .

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« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2009, 10:11:01 AM »

Titoli hit the nail in the head in the other thread:

I have watched the official version right now. The beginning is great, the finale is passable but the middle part, expecially after the arrival of Doc's girl, is almost unbearable. Sure, if you like Fonda playing the timid beau (which, BTW, Earp was not. Timid, I mean), the usual square dances and the stupid jealousy subplot, then you can rate this movie high. I don't, in spite of the great photography, of Brennan's performance (his best, among those few I saw) and even Fonda's, though I don't like his mannerisms. Mature is the healthiest Doc of the screen. Practically, the movie is good only when there are confrontations: between The Earps and the Clanton and (but only in the beginning) between Fonda and Mature. 7\10

I agree almost word for word with what he said. The movie is beautifully photographed, almost like a Western-noir, and the actors did a fine job (except for Victor Mature playing Doc Holliday; he's just out of place, cause lungers are usually very thin and fragile people, especially when the illness hits the advanced stage DH is described to have), but overall the movie gets drastically slowed down and destroyed by the middle part. Now, the cliched love subplot and the narrative minimalism don't bother me so much as the logic of the transition to the third part. - First, Doc runs away and Chihuahua immediately jumps in bed with somebody else that just happens to be Billy Clanton (and he's played by who, Groggy?), but okay, she's a tart of some sort, so I guess Doc had it coming. Then, she lies about the golden cross/medallion and almost gets Doc killed... I mean, what was that all about? She probably lied not to tell she was screwing somebody else on the side, but couldn't she have thought of something better? Not that it would have made any difference, as Wyatt knew it was his dead brother's cross/medallion, but by telling Doc gave it to her she should have known Wyatt would have asked him about it as soon as he found him, and her lie would be over. But, the circus continues, after that, Doc and Wyatt storm back to Tombstone to find what, that she's in bed with Billy-boy that very moment? Great. It's already hard to believe the Old Man Clanton would let any of his sons parade around with the stolen medallion, let alone let the son that has it go into town (alone) just for a shag. And the funny business continues, as Billy waits near the window when Doc and Wyatt pay a visit to sweet Chihuahua, and shoots her, but only after she tells them his name, and doesn't even kill her. Lol, bright guy, that Billy-boy. Like that wasn't enough, Wyatt himself joins the charade by sending his brother Virgil in chase of Billy-boy alone in the night. That's another smart move, to send his brother alone in the lion's den, knowing Billy will try to run home (shot or not). Where, of course, poor Virgil gets killed... Most illogical.

My Darling Clementine is still a well made Western, pleasant to watch and entertaining enough, but I wouldn't rate it above seven point something. Let's make it a 7.2/10.

« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 12:47:13 AM by Dust Devil » Logged



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« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2012, 05:52:34 AM »

Just watched MDC for the second time. The first time was of the pre-release version, so this is my first viewing of the theatrical version. My last viewing was more than a year ago; I can't remember the scene-by-scene well enough to compare the two.

This is a wonderful watch 9/10. Fonda is the greatest movie Earp. Mature is one of many good movie Docs (I liked Kirk Douglas and Dennis Quaid -- yes, better than Val Kilmer).

Chihuahua should have a Mexican accent, it's kind of silly how she sounds totally like an American girl. Unfortunately, that's often the case with Westerns, the studios use white leads, even when they are playing Mexicans or Indians. So Darnell is a Mexican character and made-up to look Mexican, but sounds no more Mexican than Cathy Downs  Roll Eyes Anyway, the entire cast is terrific. The scene with the church dance was great (I laughed thinking about what Sergio Leone must have said while watching it  Grin)

During the final shootout, the stagecoach goes by and the dust blinds one of the Clantons. I was wondering if that may have been an influence on the scene in GBU where Blondie and Tuco are shooting it out with Angel Eyes's gang in the blown-up town, and the explosion from the cannon blinds two of the gang members.

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« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2012, 01:22:57 PM »

During the final shootout, the stagecoach goes by and the dust blinds one of the Clantons. I was wondering if that may have been an influence on the scene in GBU where Blondie and Tuco are shooting it out with Angel Eyes's gang in the blown-up town, and the explosion from the cannon blinds two of the gang members.
It's certainly possible. That scene doubtless influenced the Cattle Corner opener for OUATITW--first, by suggesting dusters for the killers, and second, by demonstrating how well a scene like that can come off without music.

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« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2012, 08:08:38 PM »

Just reading some old posts, why are people criticizing Mature? I thought he was real good.

He is definitely a very different Doc than most movie Docs. Kirk Douglas, Dennis Quaid, Val Kilmer, and Jason Robards, were all smooth-talking, slick guys (and would never lose a draw to Earp). Mature is a very different sort of Doc, much more emotional issues, complex backstory (which is only hinted at), and tormented internally. The gunslinger who loves Shakespeare -- what a beautiful scene that is. I saw the later GAOKC movies first, so I was used to seeing the slick/cool Doc. Then I saw MDC, and it takes a bit getting used to a very different Doc character. The only similarity is the name. But especially the second time I watched the movie, once I knew what to expect, I really began to appreciate Mature. He was very good in that tormented role. I still love Douglas and Quaid, but IMO Mature is a very solid Doc as well.


btw, the church dance scene and the scene where they watch the actor do Shakespeare, are two of the most beautiful scenes in a Western.

It amazes me how much Leone could admire, heck WORSHIP, John Ford, but have such a different view of the West  Smiley

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« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2012, 04:34:40 AM »

Because Mature plays Doc Holiday, an Old West gunslinger, like he was a Boston gangster.

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« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2012, 06:11:49 AM »

Because Mature plays Doc Holiday, an Old West gunslinger, like he was a Boston gangster.

is it how Mature plays it or how the part is written?

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« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2012, 01:53:33 PM »

I just watched the movie again, this time the pre-view version. What a great movie. It's hard for me to definitively compare the two, without having memorized the script of the theatrical release (you really have to see a movie 10 or 20 times before you memorize every word of dialogue so that you'll know when something is changed in a different version). But since the pre-view version is longer, having snippets of scenes that are cut out of the theatrical version, I think I'll always watch the pre-release from now on. (They are both great movies either way).

Another big difference is that the theatrical version plays music over some scenes, which the pre-release version just runs with natural sound. Eg. when Clementine first arrives in Tombstone, and Earp stands up and helps her out, the preview version has no music on the soundtrack; on the theatrical version, a slow musical arrangement of the song "Oh My Darling Clementine" plays on the soundtrack. Another example: when Chihuahua sees Doc leaving town, she angrily runs down the street to Clementine's hotel to confront her; in the preview version, there is no music, so we hear the sound of Chihuahua's heels running on the wooden sidewalk; in the theatrical version, music plays on the soundtrack, so we don't hear the sound of her running.

As for the final kiss: I know that purists will criticize it, but I happen to think it wasn't the worst thing in the world. Earp is obviously smitten by her, they got along well and he wants to see her again, a peck on the cheek is understandable. (Zanuck added this in after a preview audience wrote on response cards that it's obvious Earp wanted her, the simple handshake wasn't enough). It's not like they get in the wagon and start banging -- it's just a peck on the cheek! I think that's more likely what a person in that situation would have done, rather than just a goodbye handshake. (Of course, I don't know what was customary in the 1880's; but at least based on the cinematic language of those days, a peck on the cheek seems fine). Not that the handshake is terrible; it works either way. Now, I am definitely a believer in keeping the vision of a great director, and I do not condone messing with it in any way. The movie should have been left as Ford wanted it (which, as I understand it, was even longer than this preview version that survived in the UCLA archive). So my point is that nothing should have been messed with in any way; but strictly artistically speaking, the kiss doesn't bother me.... Also, as much as we don't want a studio screwing with a director's intent, the bottom line is that a movie made at Fox in the 40's would have Zanuck's imprint, this is the studio system, and although Ford was one of the all-time greats, a Fox movie of that era has the imprint of the whole studio, including Zanuck's, and it's not just purely the director's vision; the director was one piece of the puzzle (albeit a very large piece) in making a movie. Not saying that's the way I prefer it, but it's just the way it was.

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« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2012, 02:27:27 PM »

--- RE: our earlier discussion of the final shootout being an influence on Leone: I recently watched FOD with Frayling's commentary; regarding TMWNN's entrance into the final shootout, Frayling says: "So Piriperro has given him some sticks of dynamite, and what you might expect is that he's gonna blow up the cantina, he's gonna blow up the Rojo residence, he's gonna use the dynamite for some tactical or aggressive purpose. In fact, he doesn't do any of those things: he uses the dynamite to give himself presence as he arrives, to enhance his charisma, so that as he walks in, he's going to make one of the great entrances in Western movies: by explosion, lots of dust, the creation of dust in the sequence, which, according to Leone, was very much based on John Ford's film My Darling Clementine, where the final shootout takes place in the dust: the dust that the stagecoach has whipped up, the dust from the desert; the gunfight at the ok corral in My Darling Clementine is a very dusty ending. Well, there's a dusty ending here, but it's created by dynamite."


--- just started watching the commentary with Scot Eyman; it's one of those awful ones where the commentator has written everything before and sounds just like he is reading off a paper. Eyman may know a lot about Ford and this movie, but I can't listen to that annoying shit. Turning it off...


---  did anyone experience problems with a scratched MDC dvd?

I bought the dvd a while ago (the Fox Studio Classics version with the white cover), it was brand new but I noticed several spots where it was scratched. A few moments here and there, nothing that interfered terribly with the playing of the movie, but strange  to see it from a brand new disc. So I decided to buy another one; again, a brand new Fox Studio Classics dvd (they're going for like $6 on Amazon!); and again, I noticed scratches the first time I played it. So there's definitely something wrong there; I don't know if it's a problem with the print, or with the pressing of the discs. My guess is the latter, since I've experienced these scratches while watching both the theatrical and preview versions of the movie.

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« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2014, 12:52:43 PM »

June 1 for the French blu of La Poursuite infernale:
http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B00IYYPIJM/ref=pe_308531_47672581_pe_epc__1p_4_ti

What the heck is a "poursuite"?

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« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2014, 01:37:05 PM »

June 6 for the blu of Faustrecht der Prärie:
http://www.amazon.de/dp/B00IZ8PUYU/ref=nosim?tag=dvdbeaver0c-21&link_code=as2&creativeASIN=B00IZ8PUYU&creative=374929&camp=211189

Isn't it about time to hear about a release from the country that made this film?

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« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2014, 03:49:44 PM »

June 1 for the French blu of La Poursuite infernale:
http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B00IYYPIJM/ref=pe_308531_47672581_pe_epc__1p_4_ti

What the heck is a "poursuite"?

I like the cover of the box, with the iconic image of Fonda with his foot up on the post. But no reason to put Linda Darnell up there - the image of Fonda should be there on its own.

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« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2014, 05:42:05 PM »

Some nutty Italian kid put up some screen caps of the new Jap Blu: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/77375 There's nothing to compare the caps to, you just roll over a pic and get another one.

Those look really, really good. So now I'm thinking if this disc is out in Japan, and has been announced for several European markets (Spain, France, Germany, Italy) but there's still been no word about a Stateside release . . . Criterion must have it. I really hope this is the case.

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