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: My Darling Clementine (1946)  ( 32713 )
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« #75 : January 22, 2017, 07:51:26 AM »

Too much i didn't like. The direction was horrible.  The inclusion of Doc Holiday was a bad  move.  Having him cough thru out the movie to set up the cough at the end was even worse.  The romance.  The whole premise.  Outside of the cinematography and surprisingly, the gunfights, its not a good movie.  The Westerner, for example, is a waay better movie...

It's a point, but film freaks see this mostly different. Especially the directing. I have no clue how one can call this horrible?

Apart from some of the usual idiotic Ford "humour" it is an excellent film.


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« #76 : January 22, 2017, 08:08:19 AM »

As I said, I like it more and more each time, particularly the Doc Holliday character. Also, you have to view this movie through the prism of the old world/new world theme.

Holliday is plagued by self-loathing. He is a doctor – an honorable profession, like the domesticated new world – but does not practice medicine, instead being a gambler and a gunfighter. He explicitly rejects domestication. Wyatt is the new world – the sheriff, law and order. Doc chooses the wild girl – old world – Chihuahua, and rejects Clementine, the decent girl – new world – who is going to be a schoolmarm and bring civilization to the west. Wyatt and Clementine, who represent the new, domesticated world, are for each other.


The church dance – it's an unfinished church – bringing a sense of community to the West, ushering them into the new world. Even Shakespeare is coming to Tombstone.

Doc gets a last chance at redemption – putting his medical skills to use by operating on Chihuahua – but she dies. His self-loathing reaches an unbearable point, and now he has no more use for himself. Not that he is depressed over Chihuahua, but that he is depressed over his uselessness. Also, he had stopped drinking whiskey for a while, but now he starts drinking again. He has nothing to live for. And this world has no place for him now. When the Earps fight the Clantons, it's because they want peace. When Doc fights the Clantons, it's because he wants to die.


In the end, those who represent the old world – Doc and Chihuahua (and, for that matter, the Clantons) die out. The new world has no place for gunfighters and crooks. But we can never forget that they are the ones who laid the groundwork for today's civilization. The gunfighters and gamblers and whores made settling the west happen, but now they have to leave once we are ushering in the new world of civilization. Very much like Once a Upon a Time in the West  in that regard.

Watch it again sometime in the future. I thought it was pretty good the first time I saw it, but not great. Watched it again after a while, a number of times, and I love it more and more every time.

p.s. watch the pre-release version if you haven't. IMO it is a better version of the movie; that's the version I always watch. (Watch it on the DVD, not the BRD. IMO, The theatrical version looks better on the BRD, but the pre-release version looks better on the DVD.)


« : January 22, 2017, 10:07:10 AM drinkanddestroy »

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« #77 : January 22, 2017, 09:16:22 AM »

Wow, Drink. Great post and great analysis.  O0



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« #78 : January 22, 2017, 10:06:00 AM »

Wow, Drink. Great post and great analysis.  O0

Merci beaucop  :)

Waiting at bus station, heading from Washington back to NY. Tiring weekend but very enjoyable  :)


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« #79 : January 25, 2017, 12:26:54 PM »

The Westerner has a very cool ending but in no way would I say it comes close to MDC, which is a beautifully directed, complex, highly analyzable movie.

I'd like to see someone write something like this about a movie like the Westerner.

As I said, I like it more and more each time, particularly the Doc Holliday character. Also, you have to view this movie through the prism of the old world/new world theme.

Holliday is plagued by self-loathing. He is a doctor – an honorable profession, like the domesticated new world – but does not practice medicine, instead being a gambler and a gunfighter. He explicitly rejects domestication. Wyatt is the new world – the sheriff, law and order. Doc chooses the wild girl – old world – Chihuahua, and rejects Clementine, the decent girl – new world – who is going to be a schoolmarm and bring civilization to the west. Wyatt and Clementine, who represent the new, domesticated world, are for each other.


The church dance – it's an unfinished church – bringing a sense of community to the West, ushering them into the new world. Even Shakespeare is coming to Tombstone.

Doc gets a last chance at redemption – putting his medical skills to use by operating on Chihuahua – but she dies. His self-loathing reaches an unbearable point, and now he has no more use for himself. Not that he is depressed over Chihuahua, but that he is depressed over his uselessness. Also, he had stopped drinking whiskey for a while, but now he starts drinking again. He has nothing to live for. And this world has no place for him now. When the Earps fight the Clantons, it's because they want peace. When Doc fights the Clantons, it's because he wants to die.


In the end, those who represent the old world – Doc and Chihuahua (and, for that matter, the Clantons) die out. The new world has no place for gunfighters and crooks. But we can never forget that they are the ones who laid the groundwork for today's civilization. The gunfighters and gamblers and whores made settling the west happen, but now they have to leave once we are ushering in the new world of civilization. Very much like Once a Upon a Time in the West  in that regard.

Watch it again sometime in the future. I thought it was pretty good the first time I saw it, but not great. Watched it again after a while, a number of times, and I love it more and more every time.

p.s. watch the pre-release version if you haven't. IMO it is a better version of the movie; that's the version I always watch. (Watch it on the DVD, not the BRD. IMO, The theatrical version looks better on the BRD, but the pre-release version looks better on the DVD.)

 O0



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« #80 : November 18, 2017, 11:56:20 AM »

It is a great movie.

watch it again later. I like it more and more every time  :)
I been  away a while. Gonna start catching up. First. I feel soo bad about my initial comments about this movie.  I was wrong. When I first watched this movie, it was late and I was half asleep.  That, combined with the fact I was going thru a movie marathon ( I was still new to western and classic movies, so I was trying to catch up) that I tried to hurriedly watch this movie and get a impression of it.

I purchased the Criterion blu Ray version and rewatched it. Man, its a masterpiece.  Everything I said was wrong with the movie, was the opposite.  I said that Fonda's character didn't flesh out his ideas. He did, I just didn't pay attention the first time. I said the romance scenes slowed the movie down. They DID, but not in a bad way. Actually, the romantic subplots added more substance to the characters and the movie itself. The cinematography was even more gorgeous than the version I saw.  I loved everything about this movie upon looking at it again. I have put it in my top 4 Ford westerns.  They are Stagecoach, Red River, The Man who shot Liberty Valence, and now this.  I now rate it a 8 out of 10.

« : November 18, 2017, 12:07:43 PM Moorman »
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« #81 : November 18, 2017, 01:05:57 PM »

 O0 O0 O0


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« #82 : November 18, 2017, 04:02:09 PM »

I been  away a while. Gonna start catching up. First. I feel soo bad about my initial comments about this movie.  I was wrong. When I first watched this movie, it was late and I was half asleep.  That, combined with the fact I was going thru a movie marathon ( I was still new to western and classic movies, so I was trying to catch up) that I tried to hurriedly watch this movie and get a impression of it.

I purchased the Criterion blu Ray version and rewatched it. Man, its a masterpiece.  Everything I said was wrong with the movie, was the opposite.  I said that Fonda's character didn't flesh out his ideas. He did, I just didn't pay attention the first time. I said the romance scenes slowed the movie down. They DID, but not in a bad way. Actually, the romantic subplots added more substance to the characters and the movie itself. The cinematography was even more gorgeous than the version I saw.  I loved everything about this movie upon looking at it again. I have put it in my top 4 Ford westerns.  They are Stagecoach, Red River, The Man who shot Liberty Valence, and now this.  I now rate it a 8 out of 10.

I hope you watch the pre-release version. It is better than the theatrical IMO. But for the pre-release version, you have to watch the DVD. The pre-release version on BRD looks very bad (perhaps because the 2K scan picks up all the damage marks). My preferred version of this movie is the pre-release version on DVD. There is also a bonus feature (on both BRD and DVD) that goes through the differences between the two versions.

DVD: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00UGPIZBK/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1511046076&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=my+darling+clementine+dvd&dpPl=1&dpID=41XxujmqP4L&ref=plSrch


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« #83 : November 18, 2017, 04:27:10 PM »

I hope you watch the pre-release version. It is better than the theatrical IMO. But for the pre-release version, you have to watch the DVD. The pre-release version on BRD looks very bad (perhaps because the 2K scan picks up all the damage marks). My preferred version of this movie is the pre-release version on DVD. There is also a bonus feature (on both BRD and DVD) that goes through the differences between the two versions.

DVD: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00UGPIZBK/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1511046076&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=my+darling+clementine+dvd&dpPl=1&dpID=41XxujmqP4L&ref=plSrch

I noticed the prerelease version on the Criterion Blu Ray i purchased. I haven't seen it yet, so i didn't know about the marks on the film. Its cool though. I love this film soo much now that i don't mind it at all.  I have a recent purchase of the original The Man Who Knew too Much, also from Criterion, that has some really bad parts in it, but i don't mind. In a way, it adds to the nostalgia of the film.  Thanks for the heads up on that. The prerelease version has more scenes?  You mentioned earlier that i don't rate movies higher than a 8.  I just might rate this one higher as it grows on me more. I've been thinking about it ever since i rewatched it.

« : November 18, 2017, 04:28:14 PM Moorman »
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« #84 : November 18, 2017, 05:55:05 PM »

I noticed the prerelease version on the Criterion Blu Ray i purchased. I haven't seen it yet, so i didn't know about the marks on the film. Its cool though. I love this film soo much now that i don't mind it at all.  I have a recent purchase of the original The Man Who Knew too Much, also from Criterion, that has some really bad parts in it, but i don't mind. In a way, it adds to the nostalgia of the film.  Thanks for the heads up on that. The prerelease version has more scenes?  You mentioned earlier that i don't rate movies higher than a 8.  I just might rate this one higher as it grows on me more. I've been thinking about it ever since i rewatched it.

pre-release version doesn’t have any more whole scenes. It has some bits and parts, an extra line or few seconds here and there. Also, some parts are silent, where the theatrical version had music.

Watch the pre-release version (preferably on DVD). Then watch the bonus feature explaining the differences  :)


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« #85 : November 18, 2017, 06:10:33 PM »

pre-release version doesn’t have any more whole scenes. It has some bits and parts, an extra line or few seconds here and there. Also, some parts are silent, where the theatrical version had music.

Watch the pre-release version (preferably on DVD). Then watch the bonus feature explaining the differences  :)

Thanks. I will watch the prerelease version to see if i can catch the differences.  The Criterion release has a TON of bonus features, as you already know. I will getr around to the part that explains the differences...

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