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Author Topic: Jean-Pierre Melville  (Read 3964 times)
titoli
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« Reply #75 on: July 15, 2017, 04:31:58 PM »

Or, if not pointless, than an opportunity for transcendence that only a few characters could experience (e.g. the guy who denounces himself so he'll be arrested so that he can get into prison with his colleague).

Uhm. But how Cassel can be sure he will be put in the same cell as the airman? I think that affair is moronic. Trascendentally so.

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« Reply #76 on: July 15, 2017, 04:47:45 PM »

The sacrificial intention is on par with the deed. Transcendentally speaking.

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« Reply #77 on: July 15, 2017, 07:31:04 PM »

In a BFI press release detailing a Melville film series in UK cinemas, the following info is added parenthetically .... I'm guessing it will be region locked.

That's great news! So, no reason for me to pay big bucks now for any individual discs; i'll wait for the SC boxset (though I counted only five films in your list, not six.)

Region-locking doesn't bother me anymore; I'm (finally!) region-free!

Any way to find out if LEON MORIN, PRIEST has the scenes that were added in at Film Forum in NY?

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« Reply #78 on: July 15, 2017, 07:49:22 PM »

That's great news! So, no reason for me to pay big bucks now for any individual discs; i'll wait for the SC boxset (though I counted only five films in your list, not six.)
They only listed 5. Speculation is that the sixth will be Un Flic, as SC owns the rights to that one too. Doesn't really matter as the extra disc isn't gonna make or break the deal for me.

Don't really know about Leon Morin, but I'm expecting it to be the longer cut.

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« Reply #79 on: July 15, 2017, 07:52:17 PM »

Uhm. But how Cassel can be sure he will be put in the same cell as the airman? I think that affair is moronic. Trascendentally so.

He couldn't be 100% sure, of course. But he was willing to give himself up on the chance. You can consider that heroic or moronic.

This movie is essentially about a bunch of failed attempts at resistance. While, as I mentioned previously, I'd have liked to see at least one action-packed success before the failures, the episode in Gestapo headquarters was good. It shows how they can plan a huge operation only to have it fail - and it shows how the Signoret character had to accept the decision that "he's too weak to travel" instantly; any hesitation or argument could have given them away.

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« Reply #80 on: July 15, 2017, 07:54:37 PM »

They only listed 5. Speculation is that the sixth will be Un Flic, as SC owns the rights to that one too. Doesn't really matter as the extra disc isn't gonna make or break the deal for me.

Don't really know about Leon Morin, but I'm expecting it to be the longer cut.

I just hope it doesn't cost a million bucks .... I'll probably get it no matter the price, whenever the pre-sale opens, or maybe wait until just after the boxset goes officially on sale; sometimes prices go down right after opening day. But I definitely have to purchase this  Afro Afro Afro

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« Reply #81 on: July 15, 2017, 09:06:30 PM »

You can consider that heroic or moronic.
The same could be said for Oedipus when he puts his eyes out. You either have an instinctual understanding of tragedy or you don't.

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« Reply #82 on: July 15, 2017, 09:29:45 PM »

He couldn't be 100% sure, of course. But he was willing to give himself up on the chance. You can consider that heroic or moronic.


Can't see any room for option. It is moronic, that's that.

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« Reply #83 on: July 15, 2017, 09:41:03 PM »

The same could be said for Oedipus when he puts his eyes out. You either have an instinctual understanding of tragedy or you don't.

So by giving himself up to Gestapo Cassel was punishing himself for frigging his own mother?

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« Reply #84 on: July 15, 2017, 09:42:10 PM »

The sacrificial intention is on par with the deed. Transcendentally speaking.

But only because he ends up in the same cell.

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« Reply #85 on: July 15, 2017, 11:44:28 PM »

But only because he ends up in the same cell.

Maybe the Resistance knew a little about the workings of the Gestapo prison. Maybe they knew that all high-value prisoners with knowledge of the Underground, to br tortured, are placed in the same area. Maybe he didn't even know it would be the same cell. Whatever, it's a matter of opinion. To me this is well within the cinematoc suspension of disbelief. Unlike, say, Angel Eyes showing up out of nowhere in the Northern prison camp, in the international cut of GBU that's missing the Fort Scene  Wink

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« Reply #86 on: July 16, 2017, 02:51:34 AM »

Maybe the Resistance knew a little about the workings of the Gestapo prison. Maybe they knew that all high-value prisoners with knowledge of the Underground, to br tortured, are placed in the same area. Maybe he didn't even know it would be the same cell. Whatever, it's a matter of opinion. To me this is well within the cinematoc suspension of disbelief. Unlike, say, Angel Eyes showing up out of nowhere in the Northern prison camp, in the international cut of GBU that's missing the Fort Scene  Wink

Oh, sure, you can suspend disbelief. But that AE may have become a concentration camp boss it rhymes with his being a sob: it would have been different if he had tried his best to be put there as an inmate. We do not know how he got there but we also don't know that it would have been impossible and it is surely a role which allowed him to keep on doing what he did as a civilian.   In AOS we must believe that a man in his senses denounces himself to be tortured by Gestapo (and that's already hard to ingest: I never knew of anybody who did it), that he is absolutely certain he will resist torture and not make names (and only an imbecile can presume that) on the absolutely uncertain assumption he might be put in the same cell of his friend.  I think it is stretching verisimilitude a bit too much. And it would have been funny if he had been put in another cell: what then?

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« Reply #87 on: July 16, 2017, 05:17:01 AM »

So by giving himself up to Gestapo Cassel was punishing himself for frigging his own mother?
No. It was an example chosen to illustrate the futility of self sacrifice. Our literature is replete with other cases. Against edit, Antigone buries her brother and is punished for it. Her effort does her brother no good, but she felt compelled to do what she thought was right. Neither Oedipus or Antigone act to affect others, only to ennoble themselves. But they cannot do otherwise.

The interesting thing in Melville's film is that Cassel can't know he will land in the same cell as his buddy, but against the odds he does. This should signal that all will be well, cinematically speaking. But of course the effort--like all the efforts in the movie--ends only in tears. Melville is relentless in his approach and yet his underlining never becomes tiresome.

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« Reply #88 on: July 16, 2017, 11:28:39 AM »

No. It was an example chosen to illustrate the futility of self sacrifice. Our literature is replete with other cases. Against edit, Antigone buries her brother and is punished for it. Her effort does her brother no good, but she felt compelled to do what she thought was right. Neither Oedipus or Antigone act to affect others, only to ennoble themselves. But they cannot do otherwise.

The interesting thing in Melville's film is that Cassel can't know he will land in the same cell as his buddy, but against the odds he does. This should signal that all will be well, cinematically speaking. But of course the effort--like all the efforts in the movie--ends only in tears. Melville is relentless in his approach and yet his underlining never becomes tiresome.
Of course, I was joking about Cassel friggin' his own mum (but I forgive you, as you have no sense of humor). The point is that the examples from greek tragedy have nothing to do with the case in question, as there's the hitch in AOS that Cassel's action would prove nothing if he'd end up in another cell. We'd  then be wondering why he's such an idiot. The fact that no reason is given about his certainty he will end up in the same cell proves my assumption.

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« Reply #89 on: July 16, 2017, 03:21:40 PM »

The point is that the examples from greek tragedy have nothing to do with the case in question, as there's the hitch in AOS that Cassel's action would prove nothing if he'd end up in another cell.
You don't understand my point at all (but I forgive you because you're an idiot.) Efficacy for others is completely beside the point. The tragic figure acts for his own benefit. He/she may hope others benefit from his/her action, but that is a secondary matter. He/she seeks transcendence, something he/she cannot help but do.

You can argue that Cassel is not a tragic figure, but I think that is an interpretive option worth leaving open. But I like the film more than you.
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