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Author Topic: How the West Was Won (1962)  (Read 17125 times)
marmota-b
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« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2013, 02:01:39 AM »

what you mean to say is y'all are anti-America however possible  Tongue

No, what I mean to say is that European works, as far as I know, usually chose the "Noble Savage" stream of non-authentic portrayal. Unless they were colonial works with an interest.

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« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2013, 07:22:39 AM »

I'm a bit well versed on the history of Native American-European conflict, but I'll still be brief and just give some bullet points:

  • Long before any permanent settlements Portuguese and French fishermen fishing the Grand Banks would make landfall to get freshwater and other supplies, they would report seeing what they called "villages of the dead". The first contact was devastating to the native populations, European diseases depopulated North America to the extent that by the time of the first settlements some estimates I've read say as little as 10% remained of the former native populations.
  • This depopulated "New World" was interpreted as a "gift from god" by the various settlers fleeing religious persecution in Europe.
  • Reading the Jesuit Relations (sort of a baptismal score card) and the early efforts to convert the Native Americans you get the impression that a cultural transference took place. Once the Native Americans heard the biblical stories and the various accounts of the lives and deaths of the saints they began to test the words of the Jesuit Fathers putting the tortures related to them to practice, a display to prove veracity and bravery became ritualized.  
  • The Pilgrims initially enjoyed good and peaceful relations with the Native Americans, it was only after the Europeans brought over domesticated livestock and the "free range" concept that relations became strained. Free range required the Natives to fence off their corn and vegetable fields from free ranging cattle, this was putting the responsibility upon the Natives, who solved the problem "their way" by slaughtering and eating the offending animals. Other situations were basically impossible to solve, settlers would let their hogs loose (go hog wild) upon tribal oyster beds at low tide. http://changesinland.wordpress.com/
  • Scalping for bounties was encouraged by the Europeans during the colonial wars of the 1700s
  • The French, in the mid to late 1600s unable to engage with the Iroquois in any set battles, finally resort to campaigns against their ancestral towns, and food stores, just before the onset of winter, this strategy had a far more effective and devastating effects against the 6 Nations as a whole. This strategy you can follow right on down the line to the mass destruction of the buffalo herds in the late 1800s.
  • Colonel Henry Bouquet to General Amherst, dated 13 July 1763, http://www.umass.edu/legal/derrico/amherst/34_40_305_fn.jpeg suggests in a postscript the distribution of blankets to "inocculate the Indians" (with smallpox) and to hunt them with dogs; General Jeffrey Amherst to Bouquet, dated 16 July 1763, approves this plan in a postscript http://www.umass.edu/legal/derrico/amherst/34_41_114_fn.jpeg  and suggests as well as "to try Every other method that can serve to Extirpate this Execrable Race."
  • When the Ohio River Country was first opened to settlers and Revolutionary War Vets post 1783, who floated down the river on flat boats, they claimed the open Native American fields they found along the flood plain as theirs, the fields were "abandoned" because the natives had moved to their winter hunting camps. The natives didn't leave signs saying "be back next spring" you can imagine the confrontations that ensued.
  • In January, 1869, General Sheridan held a conference with 50 Indian chiefs at Fort Cobb in the so-called Indian Territory (later part of Oklahoma). At that time, Sheridan, who had gained recognition as a Union officer in the Civil War, was in charge of the Dept. of the Missouri. One of his duties was to oversee the Indian Territory, making sure that the Indians remained on their reservations and did not harass the white settlers. When Comanche chief Toch-a-way was introduced to Sheridan at the conference, the Indian said, "Me Toch-a-way, me good Indian." Sheridan reportedly smirked and replied, "The only good Indians I ever saw were dead." Later on, the remark became "The only good Indian is a dead Indian."

« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 11:51:08 AM by cigar joe » Logged

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« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2013, 11:28:18 AM »

  • The French, in the 1700s unable to engage with the Iroquois in any set battles, finally resort to campaigns against their ancestral towns, and food stores, just before the onset of winter, this strategy had a far more effective and devastating effects against the 6 Nations as a whole.
The French Iroquios War was 1642-1698, so perhaps you meant to say the 1600s. Of course, one of the reasons it ended is because the French figured out they could partner with the Iroquois against the British and drive those interlopers out of New France. Which just goes to show that war is the natural condition of humans, and they will practice it for any excuse until a better one comes along.

Good job, CJ. I'm sure you could go on and on. This is outside your brief, of course, but another way to approach this area is to examine all the wars of Indians against other Indians, although the records aren't particularly good there.

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« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2013, 11:48:21 AM »

The French Iroquios War was 1642-1698, so perhaps you meant to say the 1600s. Of course, one of the reasons it ended is because the French figured out they could partner with the Iroquois against the British and drive those interlopers out of New France. Which just goes to show that war is the natural condition of humans, and they will practice it for any excuse until a better one comes along.

Good job, CJ. I'm sure you could go on and on. This is outside your brief, of course, but another way to approach this area is to examine all the wars of Indians against other Indians, although the records aren't particularly good there.

I'll fix it, you are right it was Louis de Buade, Comte de Frontenac et de Palluau during his second term in In 1696 (almost the 1700s) ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comte_de_Frontenac

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« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2013, 12:09:43 PM »

Great job, CJ - I feel terribly undereducated, but in a good way: there's room for more. Grin

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« Reply #65 on: May 04, 2017, 01:32:50 AM »

Adding to this considerable thread.

Bound for the promised land, indeed.

One of the last great epic movies to come out of MGM that was a roaring success, How the West Was Won still has enough quality about it to warrant high praise. The story that drives the film on was suggested by the series of the same name that featured in "Life" magazine 1959. Narrative is formed around one family, the Prescott's, who set out on a journey West in 1839. They and their offspring fill out five segments of film that are directed by three different men, "The Rivers", "The Plains" & "The Outlaws" is under the guidance of Henry Hathaway, and "The Civil War" by John Ford and "The Railroad" by George Marshall.

Filmed in the unique Cinerama format, which in a nutshell is three cameras filming at once to project a fully formed experience for the human eye, the production has an all star cast and four supreme cinematographers aiding the story. To name all the cast would take forever, but in the main all of the major parts were filled by stars who had already headlined a movie previously. The cinematographers are naturally key since such a sprawling story inevitably has sprawling vistas, they come up trumps with some truly special work: William H. Daniels, Milton Krasner, Charles Lang Jr. & Joseph LaShelle, four great names who help to make the film a poetic beauty.

As a whole it's undeniably far from flawless, complaints such as it running out of steam towards the end (the irony of it since a steam train features prominently), and the plot contrivances, are fair enough. However, when the film is good, it's real good: raft in the rapids, Cheyene attack, buffalo stampede and train robbery, each of them are good enough to be a highlight in separate movies. Even the songs are pleasant, particularly when they revolve around the effervescent Debbie Reynolds, while home format transfers are now finally up to a standard worthy of investment, time and cash wise.

Hard to dislike for a Western fan, and carrying enough about it to lure in the casual viewer, How the West Was Won really is a case of they don't make them like they used to. 8/10

Region 2 DVD Three Discer.

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