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Author Topic: Proof that the shorter international cut is Leone's own?  (Read 7277 times)
Cusser
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« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2015, 06:34:55 AM »

But he complains in that interview about the USA version being cut by 20 min to sell popcorn. And that is the international version, nothing else he could mean. Or?

I had heard similar decades ago, that Leone complained that GBU was cut before US release so that United artists could get more showings per day, and "sell more popcorn".  I saw the USA version on first release in Arizona in June 1968 (twice in 2 days) - never even having heard of a spaghetti western, remembering asking my brother why almost everyone listed in the Titles had Italian names.  We wondered why there were no end credits either, hadn't seen that before.  So I can vouch that the version on the single disc DVD - the one that has the extra scenes as a bonus in Italian with English subtitles) - is the version that was first released with here in 1968.  so about 162 minutes.

I've also seen GBU at least once since then with an actual Intermission - right after Tuco jumps on the train that cut his chain.  An intermission will help sell popcorn !

Funny thing - in 1968 GBU was double-featured with "The Party" (filmed after GBU was completed) in which Peter Sellers blew up a film set bridge by accident (like what really happened when filming GBU), bet that director had heard of the GBU mishap !!!

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« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2015, 01:10:14 PM »

Thanks for the first hand account Cusser! Always nice to hear what it was like to see it during the first theatrical run. I'm envious.

I will return to this thread soon when I have amassed all of the "evidence" of my theory that I can and hopefully we can come to some sort of conclusion using the facts available. It's only a theory so far and not infallible to other evidence so if anyone else wants to contribute please feel free to enter in the discussion.

It would help to have a proper french translation as obviously the question is not translated properly. If there's anyone here willing to help out I can put the French text here on this particular quote.

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« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2015, 04:19:56 AM »

I remember I read an interview him where he stated that he made that international cut because he thought outside of Italy it just wouldn't play that well because of its length. Italians (at that time) would not mind because they have a better sense for 'opera'. He was going for international success and to him that version (162min.?) worked well for non-Italian audiences.
Unfortunately I can't recall the source, it was 30 years ago!

Whatever distributors / censors then do in their countries with a film is not controlable by the film makers, as we all know.

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« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2015, 06:17:01 AM »

Thanks for the first hand account Cusser! Always nice to hear what it was like to see it during the first theatrical run. I'm envious.

Didn't realize it at the time, but that first print had had a mishap apparently and had been repaired/spliced.  When Blondie first appeared, and was staring down the three bounty killers (obviously first time seeing a Leone-type confrontation), it went from that to the shot of Blondie's smoking pistol and "waa-waa-waa", no gunshots and no gunshot sounds !!!  At 15, I thought that it was the greatest editing I had ever seen, that the director assumed we knew gunshots, thought that was high art !!  A year or 2 later, saw a different print, realized that there had been a break and repair in the first print !!!

Of course, after almost 2.5 hours to see the Ecstasy of Gold scene, with the background blurring in surreal fashion to show the passing of time (likely took hours to find Arch's plot) and an entirely new soundtrack piece, amazing.  Think of all the separate tracks of film score in just this film.  And then decades later I read that the shooting time was 6 weeks, all those location changes, just amazing.  No wonder Eastwood learned to work efficiently there.

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« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2015, 06:04:12 AM »

The only reason I watched the movie was cuz of The Ecstacy of Gold, ya know Metallica plays that song when they enter every concert. And I had to wait 2.5 hours to hear it!

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« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2015, 08:30:13 PM »

So can anyone clarify exactly what was included in the 166min French cut that was not included in the 162min international cut?

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« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2015, 03:21:13 AM »

So can anyone clarify exactly what was included in the 166min French cut that was not included in the 162min international cut?

Difficult.

Apart from Noodles the Frenchies are very, very rare in English language forums. I asked in the Spaghetti western Database forum if in any other country a version longer than 161 min was released. Zero answers.

And still, I don't think that the French version was longer. One can check the DVDs for the voices in the French version. If all the of the usual new scenes have the newly dubbed voices you can be sure that it was the same version as everywhere.

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« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2015, 03:42:06 AM »

Difficult.

Apart from Noodles the Frenchies are very, very rare in English language forums. I asked in the Spaghetti western Database forum if in any other country a version longer than 161 min was released. Zero answers.

And still, I don't think that the French version was longer. One can check the DVDs for the voices in the French version. If all the of the usual new scenes have the newly dubbed voices you can be sure that it was the same version as everywhere.

I'm pretty sure we always go the same scenes. When I said I was not sure I meant we may have longer scenes, just like a longer Tuco/Wallace torture scene. Or something like the Harmonica rising from the dead scene in OUATITW buried somewhere in the movie. I'm not saying I think we got that, I'm saying it would be possible and I could have missed it.

The scenes that were NOT on my VHS:

- The grotto
- Angel Eye in the fort
- additonnal scene in the desert: Tuco washes his feet
- Tuco asking his way while trying to save blondie
- the additional "war is terrible" dialogue a couple minutes after they leave Tuco's brother
- 6, the perfect number
- Additional dialogue with Aldo Guiffre (he asks for their name)

I know that for a fact since I was thrilled to see each of these new scenes when I got them on DVD.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 03:45:04 AM by noodles_leone » Logged


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« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2015, 11:16:25 AM »


I am curious, since it is really tough to trace back the French international cut on home video (I haven't been able to find any copies on ebay etc that pre-date the distribution of the American international cut worldwide :

1. Does your VHS have the opening credit sequence in French? (Animated in French, not just subtitled)
2. Are the character titles in French? (Le bon, la brute) etc?
3. Who is the distributor of the VHS?

I'm pretty sure we always go the same scenes. When I said I was not sure I meant we may have longer scenes, just like a longer Tuco/Wallace torture scene. Or something like the Harmonica rising from the dead scene in OUATITW buried somewhere in the movie. I'm not saying I think we got that, I'm saying it would be possible and I could have missed it.

The scenes that were NOT on my VHS:

- The grotto
- Angel Eye in the fort
- additonnal scene in the desert: Tuco washes his feet
- Tuco asking his way while trying to save blondie
- the additional "war is terrible" dialogue a couple minutes after they leave Tuco's brother
- 6, the perfect number
- Additional dialogue with Aldo Guiffre (he asks for their name)

I know that for a fact since I was thrilled to see each of these new scenes when I got them on DVD.


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« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2015, 11:18:47 AM »

I am curious, since it is really tough to trace back the French international cut on home video (I haven't been able to find any copies on ebay etc that pre-date the distribution of the American international cut worldwide :

1. Does your VHS have the opening credit sequence in French? (Animated in French, not just subtitled)
2. Are the character titles in French? (Le bon, la brute) etc?
3. Who is the distributor of the VHS?


First, I have to be disapointing: I recorded it on TV, it's not a home video edition.

That being said:

1. I don't remember. I'd say French but I couldn't assert it.
2. Yes, definitely in French
3. Like I said, TV.

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« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2015, 05:29:18 PM »

First, I have to be disapointing: I recorded it on TV, it's not a home video edition.

That being said:

1. I don't remember. I'd say French but I couldn't assert it.
2. Yes, definitely in French
3. Like I said, TV.

Thanks for answering, it's ok that its a TV version, basically it would need both french animated titles and title cards (and "end") card to truly be the french international cut. When you have a spare moment would you mind checking it out to see if it is indeed the French cut?

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« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2015, 08:37:26 PM »

Here are some examples from the spanish dvd's - pre 2002 there was a dvd that used an original spanish print with spanish titles. Post 2002 everything is MGM based and they made subtitles with both languages.





Here are some pics from the spanish credit sequence.





Here is a pic of the end spanish title card (it comes on doubled for some reason)



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« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2015, 09:30:45 PM »

Maybe this could have shed some light on the matter  Cry

http://www.ebay.ph/itm/Le-BON-la-BRUTE-et-le-TRUAND-SERGIO-LEONE-avec-CLINT-EASTWOOD-FILM-16-mm-VO-ST-/171398487469

EDIT: Or maybe not. Does the auction description say English soundtrack with French subtitles?

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« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2015, 12:47:10 AM »

Here's a link to the original French opening credits:

http://www.wat.tv/video/generique-film-bon-brute-truand-42dzz_3qecf_.html

Apparently this aired in June 1994 on France 3.

A mid-90s TV presentation in widescreen?? Noodles, is your TV recording in widescreen as well?

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« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2015, 01:40:22 AM »

Maybe this could have shed some light on the matter  Cry

http://www.ebay.ph/itm/Le-BON-la-BRUTE-et-le-TRUAND-SERGIO-LEONE-avec-CLINT-EASTWOOD-FILM-16-mm-VO-ST-/171398487469

EDIT: Or maybe not. Does the auction description say English soundtrack with French subtitles?

It says "original version" with French subtitles. Not sure what "original" means here but it's either Italian or English.

Here's a link to the original French opening credits:

http://www.wat.tv/video/generique-film-bon-brute-truand-42dzz_3qecf_.html

Apparently this aired in June 1994 on France 3.

A mid-90s TV presentation in widescreen?? Noodles, is your TV recording in widescreen as well?

Yes my recording was in widescreen too. We've had widescreen tv presentations for a long time here. It was rare but it happened, especially for western movies.
I recorded the film after 1994. The Leone films are on traditional tv channels n France almost every year in August (either tf1, France 3 or m6) so they're easy to catch.

Unfortunately I cannot check my recording: I have no VHS player (and I'm not sure I still have the recording itself).

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