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: the good, the bad and the ugly in OUTIW  ( 12013 )
Il Buono
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« : January 30, 2003, 01:43:06 PM »

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I heard that Leone's original idea for the opening sequence was that he would let the main stars of GBU play the three men waiting for the train.  Imagine...
With which he wanted to tell to make place for a new west, and the the old Wild West is done, these are the last days of the gunfighter...

Does anybody know more about it?  Is it true?  Why didn't they do it that way?  (maybe though it's better this way)


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« #1 : January 31, 2003, 12:40:43 AM »

You can find a complete explanation in Christopher Frayling's biography of Leone, but I will anticipate you the fact about the opening sequence you are referring to: Eli Wallach and (obviously) Lee Van Cleef agreed, Clint firmly refused. Besides, if you know how Sergio and Clint left after GBU, it's no wonder.
To tell you my opinion, I like Strode, Elam and Mulock but I would have loved so much to see the GBU guys shot by Bronson. I will never forgive that to Clint, even though he's dedicated his Unforgiven to Sergio (together with Don).
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« #2 : January 31, 2003, 09:37:16 AM »

Did they have an argument or something.  I know that Clint wanted to make his own movies in America, but I didn't know they had quarrels...  What happened?


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« #3 : February 15, 2003, 09:36:02 AM »

I think Leone did indeed want the GBU trio to be waiting Harmonica in the station,but Eastwood refused,so they couldn't put the plan into effect.

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« #4 : February 20, 2003, 01:48:58 AM »

Leone was angry against clint because clint had asked for to much money to do the good the bad and the ugly.
And clint said that in fistful he was alone, in  a few more he was 2 (with lee van cleef), and in the good tha bad and the ugly, they were three (with eli wallach).

Sergio leone wanted this opening session in ... the west to say that he was finished with italien westerns. He wanted to do ouatia now.

Clint refused... so sergio had to change his opening session. The one you can see in the film is an "homage" (is it an english word???) to the movie High Noon, where you can see during the all movie three men waiting for a train in the station. And one of those men is... Lee van cleef, playing harmonica!

Sorry for the language, i'm french  :)


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« #5 : February 20, 2003, 07:31:40 PM »

Homage is an english word too, you did fine.

But remember if none of the Dollars films were related, then Clint, Lee and Eli, would not have been the same characters anyway  ;)


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« #6 : March 03, 2003, 05:10:48 AM »

Iconographically, it would have been perfect though, wouldn't it?

Notice how Enzo G Castellari used a similar idea in  ANY GUN CAN PLAY. In the prologue, "The Stranger" gets to shoot down The-Man-With-No-Name; Setenza (or maybe Col Mortimer, or even Sabata - but a Van Cleef icon anyway); and Django.

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« #7 : May 17, 2003, 04:44:41 AM »

It's easy to tell who would've played the specific roles. Eli would've played the Elam character. Van Cleef the Woody Strode role (dressed in black, water dripping on his bald head). Eastwood the Al Muloch's "knuckles", never saying a word. To have had these men in the same scene with Charles Bronson would have been classic.

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« #8 : May 17, 2003, 08:33:44 AM »

It's easy to tell who would've played the specific roles. Eli would've played the Elam character. Van Cleef the Woody Strode role (dressed in black, water dripping on his bald head). Eastwood the Al Muloch's "knuckles", never saying a word. To have had these men in the same scene with Charles Bronson would have been classic.

OK Rblondie, it's a good supposition.
But Eli , always very nervous would have been perfect exciting the bird in the cage and cracking his fingers .....
and Clint  as greatest star could be the chief of the trio.
I imagine hime hearing the fly noise ...
OK for Lee under the reservoir    


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« #9 : May 17, 2003, 08:37:39 AM »

.... by the way your new topic title  makes another sense: is Harmonica the good, Franck the bad and Cheyennes the ugly  ?   ;)


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« #10 : May 18, 2003, 11:15:42 AM »

.... by the way your new topic title  makes another sense: is Harmonica the good, Franck the bad and Cheyennes the ugly  ?   ;)

I always thought of 'em that way.



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« #11 : May 18, 2003, 12:17:19 PM »

I would definetly say that Clint would be woody strode, Van Cleef would have been Elam and Wallach would have been Mulloch, it's obvious innit.


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« #12 : May 19, 2003, 01:25:24 AM »

I would definetly say that Clint would be woody strode, Van Cleef would have been Elam and Wallach would have been Mulloch, it's obvious innit.

Hippie your are great, it seems we tried all possible combinations !

.I think that the truth is that Sergio as a great Director knew how to adapt character to each actor's personality .
With Woody, Jack and Al  he built something , with Clint, Eli and Lee he should have built another scenario.Quite different perhaps.             ;)


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« #13 : June 13, 2003, 08:12:51 PM »

Okay let's clear some things. First of all Clint and Sergio didn't leave GBU with a feud. In fact the role of Harmonica was written with Eastwood in mind. Which would explain why Harmonica is so Eastwood-ish. The role was intended for him. Now Eastwood didn't refuse to do the opening sequence. He didn't do the opening sequence for the same reason he didn't play Harmonica.

After the success of the Dollar Trilogy Eastwood became a star and he got dozen of movie roles. And here is a list of all movies Eastwood released in 1968 and 69:

Two Mules for Sister Sara
Paint Your Wagon
Where Eagles Dare
Coogan's Bluff
Hang 'Em High

So go figure.

Also the role of Sean in Duck You Suckers was not written but offered to Clint Eastwood. He turned it down for two words: Dirty Harry.


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« #14 : June 09, 2004, 01:10:07 PM »

why eastwood as mulloch? I would have thought it would go...

eastwood- stony
wallach- snaky
van cleef-knuckles

about eastwood not saying a word as knuckles well woody strode doesn't say anything either. just in cas you wanted to know, the indian girl at the station is strode's wife.

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