Sergio Leone Web Board
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 24, 2017, 05:31:05 AM
Home Help Search Calendar Login Register
News:


+  Sergio Leone Web Board
|-+  Films of Sergio Leone
| |-+  Duck, You Sucker (Moderators: cigar joe, moviesceleton, Dust Devil)
| | |-+  How long is the longest version?
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Down Print
Author Topic: How long is the longest version?  (Read 13999 times)
Poggle
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 626


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2005, 01:38:57 PM »

Alright, don't bring back any Corsican bandits with you Wink

Logged
cigar joe
Moderator
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12611


easy come easy go


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2005, 03:53:47 PM »

thanks Leonardo & enjoy your vacation.

Logged

"When you feel that rope tighten on your neck you can feel the devil bite your ass"!
Concorde
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 155


"Finally, I believe ONLY in dynamite...."


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2005, 08:09:05 AM »

Leonardo,

THANKS  Grin for this valuable info!!

The "desert torment" scene to which I refer is one in which John is harassed by Juan's family as they all cross the desert together. It's supposed to be similar to the sequence in which Tuco harasses Blondy in THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY.

I believe at one point John is dying of thirst and he sips from a "stream"...only to discover it's a stream of urine from the boys pissing. This is one of the famous missing/deleted bits and there's a color photo of it in the American FISTFUL OF DYNAMITE press materials. I'm very curious to know what the script says about it.

Also, does this script explain who "Sean" is? Is it an alternate name that John uses (or that he once used before, back in Ireland), or is it the name of his friend from the Irish flashbacks? What does the script give for dialog in the scene where Juan asks him his name? (Does he say "Sean" at first, then give up and say "John"?)

I'm dying to know!   Huh

Logged
Leonardo
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 336


"So you're not a businessman after all.."


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2005, 03:25:14 PM »

Leonardo,

THANKS  Grin for this valuable info!!

The "desert torment" scene to which I refer is one in which John is harassed by Juan's family as they all cross the desert together. It's supposed to be similar to the sequence in which Tuco harasses Blondy in THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY.

I believe at one point John is dying of thirst and he sips from a "stream"...only to discover it's a stream of urine from the boys pissing. This is one of the famous missing/deleted bits and there's a color photo of it in the American FISTFUL OF DYNAMITE press materials. I'm very curious to know what the script says about it.

Also, does this script explain who "Sean" is? Is it an alternate name that John uses (or that he once used before, back in Ireland), or is it the name of his friend from the Irish flashbacks? What does the script give for dialog in the scene where Juan asks him his name? (Does he say "Sean" at first, then give up and say "John"?)

I'm dying to know!   Huh

Hi guys! Back from my 10 days sunny vacation in Corsica so I've got my batteries recharged.
Concorde, in the script I have there is no such "desert torment" scene. But the explanation may be in Leone's interview in the book I mentioned previously.
Quote
S. Leone: "In Duck you sucker there are several cuts, almost 40 minutes, mainly in the first half of the movie.
In one scene which I liked a lot, you can see Juan's children completely dismantling Sean's motorcycle; Juan then gets mad at them and tells them to reassemble it.
Another scene which I was forced to cut is the one where after the battle, you can see all bandits reunited in the cave. Even after their victory, they do not smile, but their faces express what they are thinking. At that point, there was to be a flashback with John in his native Ireland.
At that point, John, suddendly getting angry, throws a bottle at a grammophone, breaking the record which was playing.
This scene which I had to cut in my opinion was significant. It continues with John's apologies claiming that he didn't do it on purpose. The others just tell him that their feet are hurting and John tells them that they will keep hurting, as they have to get to Mexico City as soon as possible."
End quote
So to cut a long story short, the scenes you are referring to may well be in those 40 minutes that Sergio was forced to cut..
As for your John/Sean question, I just let the script talk..:
Quote
348. Juan from behind and frontal PPP of John: "If we work together we'll get rich for sure...(he laughs).. Hey, what the hell is your name?"
349. Juan from behind and frontal PPP of John who answers: "Sean".
350. Continuation of scene 348. Juan: "What?"
351. Continuation of scene 349: John: "John"
352. PP of both of them (profile, close together facing each other). Juan stands up and walks backwards. John exits and camera correction to show half figure of Juan. Juan: "What's your name??"
353. PPP of John: "John". Juan (off screen): "But that's fantastic (he laughs),, it seems..."
354. Continue scene 352. Juan: "..it seems incredible! My name is Juan and yours is John! We are Juan & John!"
355. PPP of John: "So what..!" Juan (off screen): "What do you mean - so what- ?!!" etc. etc.
End quote
So in my humble opinion Coburn's name is really Sean, but he probably just figured that Juan would never understand it, so he told him to make things easier that his name was John, which is actually  Sean's "translation".
Bye-bye guys, I'm hitting the sack, pretty tired and I run out of Jack Daniels last week..! Keep this board (and Sergio's memory) alive!

Logged
SeanSeanSean
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 395



View Profile
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2005, 05:06:05 PM »

The Sean or John, enigma!
Having seen this movie when it came out, and have seen it countless times in many versions. I always thought that Sean just repeated John so Juan could understand.
But that newspaper clipping from Ireland indicates John Mallory I believe. So I'm puzzled, why would he say Sean to introduce himself?
1. Coburn misread is line? Not likely.
2. The theory that Sean is Warwick, the 3rd in the ménage à trois, is fascinating.

Logged

If it's a revolution, it's confusion
Sentenza
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 96



View Profile
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2005, 03:22:11 AM »

Leonardo, is this the book you're quoting from?

http://www.csc-cinematografia.it/bookshop/index_scheda.asp?Id=43

According to the description it contains, among other things, the complete script to the movie as well as an interview with Leone.


Logged

We kill him now, papa?!
Leonardo
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 336


"So you're not a businessman after all.."


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2005, 06:48:24 AM »

Yes Sentenza: I confirm that's the book I have and I was referring to in my previous posts.
I also confirm that it contains the script of DYS as well as a rather interesting interview with Sergio Leone.
It contains also some nice photos and the scirpt of some of the cut scenes of OUTIW.
Amazing you found this book which is now 34 years old..

Logged
Concorde
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 155


"Finally, I believe ONLY in dynamite...."


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2005, 07:11:10 AM »

The Sean or John, enigma!
Having seen this movie when it came out, and have seen it countless times in many versions. I always thought that Sean just repeated John so Juan could understand.
But that newspaper clipping from Ireland indicates John Mallory I believe. So I'm puzzled, why would he say Sean to introduce himself?
1. Coburn misread is line? Not likely.
2. The theory that Sean is Warwick, the 3rd in the ménage à trois, is fascinating.

I understand the R2 DVD of DUCK YOU SUCKER has a portion of the 2nd disc devoted to addressing this baffling issue of the "Sean/John" question....

Has anyone here got it or seen it? Care to comment? (I'm still waiting on an R1 disc myself.....)

Logged
Uomo_senza_ nome
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 72


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2005, 09:05:28 AM »

Sean is the name of the friend, just look at the european dvd of fod

Logged
Johny_Exhale
Bandido
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 79


"Now, I believe only in dynamite"


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2005, 01:50:22 PM »

Sean is the name of the friend, just look at the european dvd of fod

thats not true, Sean is simply Irish for John, Frayling even says it in the commentary, i dont get why they put that little documentary on the dvd to confuse us because its mostly bullshit

Logged

200.000 Dollars is alotta money
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13637

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2005, 05:36:23 PM »

I agree, the documentary promotes confusion. It should not have pushed for a single interpretation but provided a run-down of the different competing theories.

A case can be made that Sean is the name of Malory's dead friend, but that does not exclude the fact that Malory himself is identified with the name. If for no other reason, the "Sean, Sean, Sean" theme makes this clear (the theme most certainly DOES NOT refer to the dead friend). The fact that Malory is also called "John" is no great difficulty as has been explained above. He can be both John and Sean, and given the themes of the film, should be considered so.

Logged


That's what you get, Drink, for getting out of bed this morning.
SeanSeanSean
Gunslinger
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 395



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2005, 11:30:16 AM »

thats not true, Sean is simply Irish for John, Frayling even says it in the commentary, i dont get why they put that little documentary on the dvd to confuse us because its mostly bullshit
Agreed.
But why does the clipping out of the Irish newspaper refer to John Mallory?

Logged

If it's a revolution, it's confusion
Juan Miranda
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 842


Badges?!?


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2005, 04:28:14 PM »

We've had a few discussions about who John and Sean are ona couple of other threads:

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=2093.0

http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10.60

to name but two. To dismiss the theory as "bullshit" is pretty glib, since I don't think there is any definitive answer one way or another.

Indeed, going by the script excerpts quoted on this thread, we may go by the absurd theory that "Sean" tells Juan his name is "John" because a Mexican peasant won't understand him.

But then again, why bother calling Coburn "John" in the script, and not "Sean"?? Presumably the script wasn't written solely for the eyes of Mexican peasants to read, or chuck under the wheels of armoured cars? If he is called "John" in the script, surely Coburn is called John?

Case closed?

« Last Edit: September 24, 2005, 04:32:57 PM by Juan Miranda » Logged

Poggle
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 626


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2005, 08:49:05 PM »

The SH sound is in the Spanish vocabulary, but not the J(As in John) sound.

Logged
dave jenkins
Bounty Killer
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 13637

"One banana, two banana, three banana, four...."


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2005, 06:14:51 PM »

Indeed, going by the script excerpts quoted on this thread, we may go by the absurd theory that "Sean" tells Juan his name is "John" because a Mexican peasant won't understand him.

But then again, why bother calling Coburn "John" in the script, and not "Sean"?? Presumably the script wasn't written solely for the eyes of Mexican peasants to read, or chuck under the wheels of armoured cars? If he is called "John" in the script, surely Coburn is called John?

Case closed?
Not quite. Mallory is identified as "John" because that is who he is at the time of the action. He was "Sean" in Ireland, now he's "John." When characters have multiple aliases, scripts customarily use the current one for character cues (after all, that is the name that the other characters know him by).

Regarding whether Juan knows his Seans from his Johns............ It is not a question of education, but rather one of cultural familiarity. When Sean Connery made his first appearance on The Tonight Show to be interviewed by Johnny Carson, the MC announced him as "Seen" Connery. That was because the Irish spelling was uncommon in America in the 1960s (we generally used "Shawn" or "Shaun.") Indeed, Connery can be credited for popularizing the traditional spelling of the name in the U.S.

Now consider the situation in 1913 Mexico. It is plausible that Mallory would give Juan a name he might be expected to recognize (commonly used in the nearby U.S.) rather than something more obscure from distant Ireland.

Of course, an even simpler explanation is at hand. Mallory, in an unguarded moment, answers Juan by giving him the first name to come to mind (his "true" name), then, recovering, resumes the alias he is currently using, the one the British government and its newspapers know him by.

Logged


That's what you get, Drink, for getting out of bed this morning.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Visit FISTFUL-OF-LEONE.COM

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.042 seconds with 19 queries.