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Author Topic: Blade Runner 2049 (2017)  (Read 3592 times)
mike siegel
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« Reply #90 on: October 29, 2017, 05:40:04 PM »

Can't believe people really find a masterpiece in this one. I like the story a lot
but the pace destroys everything. And then I have to defend Antonioni to certain people Smiley.

Sure, great design, visuals, everything, great gags (Soylent Green, USSR, Pan-Am,
VW beetle, Peugot, Elvis etc.)... But I wouldn't want
to see it again without getting paid for it. Why do so many mediocre directors
think they are David Lean or Kubrick?
With 117 minutes it would have been a very good Sci-Fi film.

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« Reply #91 on: October 30, 2017, 01:14:00 AM »

I cannot believe i still have to argue that “thinking they are a Kubrick” is the most beautiful flaw an artist can have. When someone likes such a film, they will say it’s “ambitious”. When someone doesn’t like the same film, they’ll call it “pretentious”. These aren’t the 2 sides of a same coin, they’re characterizing the exact same quality. And if anything we need this quality in many, many more movies.

I really wish I could have had the time to see 2049 once more in theater. I cannot wait for the BRD. I think it’s the most important - I didn't say "my favorite" - film since The Social Network, ŕ title only some PTA films could dispute.

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« Reply #92 on: October 30, 2017, 03:14:46 AM »

I will watch it this evening (in case I don't get in time trouble). And I'm pretty curious after reading so many things about it .

So far I think, in respect of Mike's view, that Villeneuve is a more interesting director than Lean, who will always be for me a better director than filmmaker, which easily makes him for me a pretty overrated director. And as I don't care very much for Scott either, and BR is not a masterpiece for me (but a very enjoyable film though), there's a good chance that I will prefer the sequel.

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« Reply #93 on: October 30, 2017, 03:34:48 AM »

The sequel is more cerebral and clearly more "Villeneuvesque" so you may like it a lot. Chose the right theater (screening conditions - especially the sound system - are critical here, I cannot stress this enough), and let us know!

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« Reply #94 on: October 30, 2017, 04:31:10 AM »

Look at in in terms of Leone. He made A Fistfull Of Dollars, it was good, made money, he made For a Few Dollars More a masterpiece then The Good The Bad And The Ugly another fucking masterpiece. Boom, boom, boom. Especially the way they were released in the U.S.

With Blade Runner 2049, you expect it to surpass the original, it doesn't, it seems to just cover the same ground with cute tweeks. It seems too calculated too formulaic, let's make a SiFi film that quotes all other SiFi films (remember the giant women in the amusement park in A.I.), maybe they just waited too long, too much lag time.  It's like Sin City, it was great, then they again waited too long to make the sequel, A Dame To kill For, it had some nice sequences but others sort of fell off. 

Maybe just maybe if you wait too long with these things the original becomes so iconic in your mind/the public's mind that a sequel will never measure up in your mind to first.

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« Reply #95 on: October 30, 2017, 06:32:34 AM »

The sequel is more cerebral and clearly more "Villeneuvesque" so you may like it a lot. Chose the right theater (screening conditions - especially the sound system - are critical here, I cannot stress this enough), and let us know!

Actually I don't s´care that much for screening conditions. Good films are good in every format. The most important aspect is that they are uncut. Even a wrong aspect ration cannot really hurt a good film.

I will watch it in 3-D (which I generally try to avoid), after reading some very positive 3-D recommendations for this one. In fact there is no choice for me anyway, as there are no further 2-D screenings this week.

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« Reply #96 on: October 31, 2017, 03:25:16 AM »

Noooooooooooooooooo Deakins said "no 3d"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

About screening conditions: no, good films aren't good in every format. Citizen Kane sucks when watched on an Apple Watch, or if your neighbor keeps talking throughout the movie. Also, some films are good in many formats but MUCH better in the appropriate conditions. You wouldn't watch OUATITW in pan and scan. Blade Runner 2049 is a film that requires a good sound system.



With Blade Runner 2049, you expect it to surpass the original, it doesn't,

I never expected that. I have a bias for Leone, but apart from him, nobody came close to the original BR. You cannot expect anyone to break a 30 years old world record Smiley

it seems to just cover the same ground with cute tweeks.

I don't think so. The original BR was about mortality, this one is about identity. The original BR was about how trapped we are by the human condition, this one follows existentialism (we are defined by what we do, not where we come from). These are inherently different thematics and the whole films are based upon these (and not on the plot), which gives us 2 very different movies.
Also, the first one is warm and tactile, this one is cold and cerebral. So even the execution comes from a different place.

It seems too calculated too formulaic, let's make a SiFi film that quotes all other SiFi films (remember the giant women in the amusement park in A.I.),

I can understand that feeling. I strongly disagree (I see it as a totally unique and a true landmark in movie history), but I see where you come from here.

Maybe just maybe if you wait too long with these things the original becomes so iconic in your mind/the public's mind that a sequel will never measure up in your mind to first.

Yeah, I think it's very hard to come a few decades after an iconic film. What would could "Brazil 2049" or "GBU 2" be nowadays?
Still, as some critics pintpointed, Villeneuve managed some kind of miracle: his film isn't as good as Blade Runner (but then again, what is?), but it isn't far and it is a great sequel that does what great sequel do (they're stand alone works of art and they make the original deeper).

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« Reply #97 on: October 31, 2017, 03:52:15 AM »

Noooooooooooooooooo Deakins said "no 3d"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Still, I'm curious now, after reading some strong recommendations. And as I said, I most likely won't have the choice anyway. Btw, time killed BR 2049 yesterday, so I still have experience ahead of me.
Quote
About screening conditions: no, good films aren't good in every format. Citizen Kane sucks when watched on an Apple Watch,

No it doesn't, it is still a great film. And I have watched OUTW one time in pan & scan, well, it was indeed strange after having watched it before several times in a theatre, but there was still much too enjoy.

Actually my only chance to see many, many great films for many, many years, was to watch them via p&s VHS cassettes, and I loved and enjoyed GBU or The Wild Bunch not a single bit less than I do now. And I preferred easily the p&s VHS of TWB to the cut German theatrical version (with about 18 min missing).
Having experienced this very wrong aspect ratio years, I'm positively sure that I have no real problems with any film, as long as the sound is understandable, and the image is big enough to see the camera movements and the cuts and the faces of the actors (as landscape).



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« Reply #98 on: October 31, 2017, 06:21:56 AM »

This line of though is a bit hard to swallow for people who work on these images and sounds  Cry Cry Cry Cry

Of course, OUATITW has more to offer than just the correct aspect ratio. Still, cinema is a mean of expression and you're cutting out huge chunks of the ideas/emotions expressed by choosing to not care about them. This is more of a problem with movies that consciously use sound and image in a very controlled way, just like in BR2049.

Actually, I'm curious about the 3D experience for that film too. Like I said, the most important thing is the sound because the way the photography works in this film is inherently cold; most of the immersive work and the warmth comes from the sound design. You definitely won't have the same experience if you watch it with the wrong sound system (image quality is less of an issue here). I know it for a fact since I saw it with the wrong sound system (and I'm definitely not a sound guy).

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« Reply #99 on: November 01, 2017, 07:22:55 AM »

Noooooooooooooooooo Deakins said "no 3d"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Haven't seen it yet, but I'm with you (and Deakins) here.

About screening conditions: no, good films aren't good in every format.

Gotta disagree here. I'm with Stanton that a good film will still be good regardless of format (within reason of course) - it's the whole "lipstick on a pig" thing. However, in a poor format you simply won't be doing a good film justice.

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« Reply #100 on: November 01, 2017, 10:20:25 AM »

Screening conditions aren't lipstick on a pig. Films and videos are made for a certain kind of experience. Even with the same budget, you don't write, direct, edit, mix and grade the same way depending on the main viewing conditions. Some films and shows are optimized for "most" conditions (ie not a smartwatch, but most decent screens will do). Many aren't.

3D is a good example. You just don't have the same freedom. You cannot use shaky cam in 3D, you cannot edit too fast, you cannot move the camera too fast. The same stays true for a big screen vs a TV. Fast pans that work very well on TV give headaches to a theater audience. Some films are made to be immersive and usually need the best sound system because they were designed for that experience, some aren't. A Leone close up is something that is common and mainstream on TV, but impressive on a big screen. An extended shot framed as a wide shot where the action only takes 10-20% of the frame may work perfectly on a big screen, while it doesn't express the same feeling on TV and is unwatchable on a smartphone. Colors are also hugely significant and will impact the audiences' feelings WAY more than they think. An overly saturated TV won't just make things look "weird", it will make or break certain movies (Inside Llewyn Davis, for instance). If you're streaming a comedy, a misplaced lag can destroy the best joke ever (in my experience, a difference of 3 or 4 frames can destroy a good line).

Some films still hold a lot of quality even when watched in poor conditions, some lose too much, because they don't just loose comfort or lipstick, they lose emotions and meaning. Cinema is a way of expression, just like somebody talking to you. If you have to guess some of the words the guy in front of you is uttering, if you cannot see his eyes or body language, you're sometimes losing 1% of the message, and sometimes 99%.

A film isn't just a bunch of 35mm rolls or a .mp4 file. The screening is part of the work of art. You can watch it "broken" and still enjoy it, but don't think you've seen the real thing.
It reminds me of when people say they don't care if a film is well directed or not: I don't care if you care, but I KNOW that the direction will incredibly impact the way you'll feel during the movie, whether you "care" or not. Same goes for the viewing conditions: you may care, you may don't care, your opinion on the film will widely vary, ESPECIALLY for the first viewing.

In the case of BR2049, you're all free to do whatever you want to do, but as someone who watched it I can tell you the sound was designed a certain way and it brings a quality that was intentionally absent from the visual part. If you lose it, you're losing a lot and the whole films becomes too cold.

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« Reply #101 on: November 01, 2017, 11:42:57 AM »

In the case of BR2049, you're all free to do whatever you want to do, but as someone who watched it I can tell you the sound was designed a certain way and it brings a quality that was intentionally absent from the visual part. If you lose it, you're losing a lot and the whole films becomes too cold.
There were a lot of deep bass effects that the theater in which I saw the film couldn't handle. I understood what I was supposed to feel at those moments and made the mental adjustment necessary, but I shouldn't have had to do that. The sound design for BR2049 is, as Noodles says, an integral part of the whole.

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« Reply #102 on: November 01, 2017, 01:08:19 PM »


It reminds me of when people say they don't care if a film is well directed or not: I don't care if you care, but I KNOW that the direction will incredibly impact the way you'll feel during the movie, whether you "care" or not.

That's the most important aspect for me: how a film is directed, and I think that I see under any worse viewing condition. And even a p&s version can't kill a good film.

It was great to see GBU in a 1,85:1 aspect ratio, after having watched it before only in bad 4:3, and it was of course even better to see it later in its original aspect ratio, but it was the great masterpiece from the beginning on, and watching it in 2,35:1 did not lead to any kind of ohoo effect, only: yes, so had I already imagined it.

And before someone asks stupid questions, of course I try to get films in good copies, preferred in the best possible one, but it must not necessarily be the best one available.

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« Reply #103 on: November 02, 2017, 02:04:43 AM »

You didn't have the choice for GBU. If someone told you "Hey, I have never seen GBU, I'll watch the pan and scan version tonight" I hope you'd try to make him get another version.


Stop arguing, just watch BR2049 with a good sound!  Angry Angry Angry Angry

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« Reply #104 on: November 02, 2017, 06:22:49 AM »

You didn't have the choice for GBU. If someone told you "Hey, I have never seen GBU, I'll watch the pan and scan version tonight" I hope you'd try to make him get another version.

By coincidence that just happened yesterday. Unfortunately I followed your earlier advice and sugestged to watch the film without the image, only with the sound. Was that wrong?

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