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« #120 : May 26, 2016, 08:22:10 AM »

How near is the Western town where Tuco shoots Mulloch in the bathtub, to Langstone Bridge/Sad Hill? Does not seem to me like they travel far

CJ thought that town was Ft. Grant, Arkansas, I think.  It's tough to tell the time interval after departing there and reaching the bridge, could be several days, could be a month.

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« #121 : May 26, 2016, 09:20:39 AM »

CJ thought that town was Ft. Grant, Arkansas, I think.  It's tough to tell the time interval after departing there and reaching the bridge, could be several days, could be a month.
Ft. Smith, AK.



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« #122 : May 26, 2016, 11:14:50 AM »

You are both correct Ft. Smith was changed for some odd reason to Ft. Grant in Hang 'Em High, though the "Hanging Judge" Parker remained the same character.


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« #123 : May 26, 2016, 05:03:24 PM »

There was a Civil War skirmish also in Arizona, near Piccachio.

Remember Tuco tells Blondie (in the restored scene) that the cemetery is far away?  And that they'd have to cross battle lines several times? That and the months it takes for GBU to play through, and the topography DO indicate that the cemetery Sad Hill was farther east.

Didn't I read somewhere that the Burgos area was specifically chosen for the bridge and cemetery scenes because it looked more like eastern US?

As I recall, Frayling does mention in the commentary that Burgos looks like Virginia, but only to make the point that there is a wide variety of Spanish landscapes. But Frayling also says that showing a pitched battle in the West is an example of Leone making a movie in never-neverland. So I don't think Frayling considers the possibility that Burgos was chosen for that battle because Leone indeed intended the battle to take place in the East.

« : May 27, 2016, 10:09:45 AM drinkanddestroy »

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« #124 : May 27, 2016, 05:11:09 AM »

So I don't think Frayling considers the possibility that Burgos was chosen for that battle because Leone indeed intended the battle to take place in the East.
Yes, his imagination is rather limited, isn't it?



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« #125 : May 31, 2016, 06:55:14 PM »

Yes, his imagination is rather limited, isn't it?

That's an unfair comment.

CJ's theory of the movie moving East is quite far-fetched. It's pretty clever, and may be correct, but certainly far-fetched. This movie is a Western; it frequently mentions places in the West like Texas and New Mexico but never mentions places in the East; and it wouldn't be the first time that Leone made a movie in never-neverland - for example, while the railroad did not reach that far West during the Civil War, I believe it also did not reach Tucumcari at the time FAFDM was set. And I believe that the cartridges Blondie was cleaning weren't really around during the Civil War.

I think your remark about Frayling was unfair, though I'm not saying CJ's theory is wrong. I think his "Timeline" thread is a great read and may well be true, although it is quite a novel theory and we'll never know for sure.

Leone never had a problem combining extensive historical research with never-neverland  ;D


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« #126 : May 31, 2016, 06:55:58 PM »

I just left a 5-star review of the book on the amazon.de website, and I suggest that all of you who buy it do the same.

Now Peter, when is the new FOD book coming out?  ;)


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« #127 : June 01, 2016, 02:29:46 AM »

That's an unfair comment.

CJ's theory of the movie moving East is quite far-fetched. It's pretty clever, and may be correct, but certainly far-fetched. This movie is a Western; it frequently mentions places in the West like Texas and New Mexico but never mentions places in the East; and it wouldn't be the first time that Leone made a movie in never-neverland - for example, while the railroad did not reach that far West during the Civil War, I believe it also did not reach Tucumcari at the time FAFDM was set. And I believe that the cartridges Blondie was cleaning weren't really around during the Civil War.

I think your remark about Frayling was unfair, though I'm not saying CJ's theory is wrong. I think his "Timeline" thread is a great read and may well be true, although it is quite a novel theory and we'll never know for sure.

Leone never had a problem combining extensive historical research with never-neverland  ;D

Western Arkansas, Western Missouri, are WEST of the Mississippi, but further East than New Mexico, Texas  O0


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« #128 : June 01, 2016, 08:17:58 AM »

Western Arkansas, Western Missouri, are WEST of the Mississippi, but further East than New Mexico, Texas  O0
Trying to explain these things to a kid from Brooklyn is like trying to give directions to off-world visitors. Give up.



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« #129 : June 01, 2016, 03:20:41 PM »

I'm going through the chapter where Hanley compares the film to what was in the original Italian script (he doesn't mention a translator. Did he translate it himself?) The most interesting thing so far: In the Betterville sequence, in the original, Angel Eyes didn't know Blondie and Tuco nor they him. They meet for the first time at the camp (thus, there are no earlier missing scenes). However, as AE explains to Tuco, he knows Tuco isn't Carson because AE came across Carson's dead body soon after Tuco and Blondie did. He noticed that the dead Carson was no longer wearing his uniform, so now he figures the uniform Tuco's got on must be Carson's. Maybe Tuco talked to Carson before he died and found out about the gold? Well, it's worth administering a beating to find out. Interestingly, in this version AE gives the beating, not Wallace (Wallace is outside with the musicians). The scene as it plays out seems potentially funny: Tuco keeps insisting for the longest time he's Carson, and every time he does he gets a blow . . .

I wonder why they changed the relationship between AE and Tuco/Blondie? It isn't necessary to the plot that they had known one another before. Hmmmm.



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« #130 : June 01, 2016, 04:03:48 PM »

Trying to explain these things to a kid from Brooklyn is like trying to give directions to off-world visitors. Give up.

I guess that only non-Brooklynites are aware that the topography of Arkansas and the topography of Virginia are the same.


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« #131 : June 01, 2016, 04:14:33 PM »

I'm going through the chapter where Hanley compares the film to what was in the original Italian script (he doesn't mention a translator. Did he translate it himself?) The most interesting thing so far: In the Betterville sequence, in the original, Angel Eyes didn't know Blondie and Tuco nor they him. They meet for the first time at the camp (thus, there are no earlier missing scenes). However, as AE explains to Tuco, he knows Tuco isn't Carson because AE came across Carson's dead body soon after Tuco and Blondie did. He noticed that the dead Carson was no longer wearing his uniform, so now he figures the uniform Tuco's got on must be Carson's. Maybe Tuco talked to Carson before he died and found out about the gold? Well, it's worth administering a beating to find out. Interestingly, in this version AE gives the beating, not Wallace (Wallace is outside with the musicians). The scene as it plays out seems potentially funny: Tuco keeps insisting for the longest time he's Carson, and every time he does he gets a blow . . .

I wonder why they changed the relationship between AE and Tuco/Blondie? It isn't necessary to the plot that they had known one another before. Hmmmm.

As it is now, I believe that our only clue that AE knows Blondie and Tuco is his comment about a "golden-haired angel" watching over Tuco. Sort of a clumsy connection IMO.

As I recall, Frayling says that the scene with the "half soldier" originally had some ither dialogue; it was post-dubbed to have the dialogue about the cash box because there had been another scene in the script where the cash-box dialogue had originally been, but that scene was removed; since the dialogue is important, they used it in the half-soldier scene, which initially had less-important dialogue.

Now, I wonder if perhaps a similar thing is true of the "golden-haired angel" dialogue. Was it added in later cuz Leone decided, hey, I need to show that AW knows Blondie and Tuco? IMO it seems sorta clumsy.

DJ, in that early draft, is the Fort scene in there? Is it necessary?


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« #132 : June 01, 2016, 04:27:04 PM »

As it is now, I believe that our only clue that AE knows Blondie and Tuco is his comment about a "golden-haired angel" watching over Tuco. Sort of a clumsy connection IMO.

As I recall, Frayling says that the scene with the "half soldier" originally had some ither dialogue; it was post-dubbed to have the dialogue about the cash box because there had been another scene in the script where the cash-box dialogue had originally been, but that scene was removed; since the dialogue is important, they used it in the half-soldier scene, which initially had less-important dialogue.

Now, I wonder if perhaps a similar thing is true of the "golden-haired angel" dialogue. Was it added in later cuz Leone decided, hey, I need to show that AW knows Blondie and Tuco? IMO it seems sorta clumsy.

DJ, in that early draft, is the Fort scene in there? Is it necessary?
It's there (according to Hanley. Hey, don't you have a copy of his book?). It's necessary in that AE gets a clue about where he should go next. Of course, you could dispense with the scene (we don't really need to understand the chain of info gathering AE goes through to get to where he's going) but I like the scene a lot (great 360 degree pan; the first time we here the strains of the "sad" music for dead soldiers; and of course I can never get enough scenes with AE in them). The gunshop scene isn't necessary either, but I wouldn't want to dispense with it. GBU is one of the few pictures that can stand any number of "non-essential" scenes. I wish the film was twice as long.



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« #133 : June 02, 2016, 04:29:36 AM »

Hanley's book is excellent, but one thing sorely lacking is an outline of the film's production history. Even Frayling is rather vague about the chronology. I know location scouting was done in March of 1966. I know that the English dub was prepared in Oct/Nov. 1967. I know the shoot lasted 13 weeks. But which 13 weeks? Can anybody point me toward the info?



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« #134 : June 02, 2016, 04:49:52 AM »

I'm going through the chapter where Hanley compares the film to what was in the original Italian script (he doesn't mention a translator. Did he translate it himself?) The most interesting thing so far: In the Betterville sequence, in the original, Angel Eyes didn't know Blondie and Tuco nor they him. They meet for the first time at the camp (thus, there are no earlier missing scenes). However, as AE explains to Tuco, he knows Tuco isn't Carson because AE came across Carson's dead body soon after Tuco and Blondie did. He noticed that the dead Carson was no longer wearing his uniform, so now he figures the uniform Tuco's got on must be Carson's. Maybe Tuco talked to Carson before he died and found out about the gold? Well, it's worth administering a beating to find out. Interestingly, in this version AE gives the beating, not Wallace (Wallace is outside with the musicians). The scene as it plays out seems potentially funny: Tuco keeps insisting for the longest time he's Carson, and every time he does he gets a blow . . .

I wonder why they changed the relationship between AE and Tuco/Blondie? It isn't necessary to the plot that they had known one another before. Hmmmm.

Interesting. I don't know why Leone changed the relationship. Most screenwriters wouldn't have, it's quite confusing. GBU is the first Leone film I have seen, and that relationship confused me a lot. When my parents told me there were 2 "prequels" (they remembered they were somehow linked), I thought it made a lot of sense... until i saw FoD and FFDM and saw for myself the relationship wasn't explained.

However, I'm sure glad the relationship is what it is. To me it's part of the mythology of the film. This and more generally the way the 3 characters are introduced to us, the weird 2 protagonists structure, is one of the main reasons why GBU feels so much "bigger" than the 2 previous ones. Leone always said westerns were like swords and sandal films, but only GBU is Homer-grade stuff.



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