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Author Topic: In Memoriam  (Read 6296 times)
noodles_leone
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« Reply #135 on: October 10, 2017, 10:33:26 AM »

R.I.P Jean Rochefort (1930-2017) I remember him from The Tall Blond Man with One Black Shoe and Who Is Killing the Great Chefs of Europe? and others.

National mourning.
I would have absolutely loved to see him in Gilliam's Don Quixote film, it's a shame they had to stop production after he fell from his horse.

What’s never explained in that movie is why Pesci had to die for killing the made man but De Niro and Liotta didn’t. Pesci is the one that Vincent was harassing (“Shine you shoes ... look like fuckin’ mirrors!”), which led to the murder, but all three of them were equally involved in the murder.

My bet is that everybody knew Pesci was batshit crazy and everybody knew he clashed with Pesci while DeNiro was publicly trying to make things ok for everybody. Nobody knew DeNiro and Lliota were starting to go crazy too ("hubris is a bitch" could have been the title of half of Martin's movies). I would have put the blame on Pesci too.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 10:37:28 AM by noodles_leone » Logged


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« Reply #136 on: October 10, 2017, 11:44:53 AM »

More than that, when it came time to investigating who was responsible, blame would have to fall somewhere. If you were the De Niro character you would figure this out and also a way to throw shit on someone while being very, very careful not to get any on yourself. The best person to bear the blame would be someone who was actually involved. But not everyone who was guilty had to pay up--mob justice doesn't require that. Personal betrayal, on the other hand, yeah.

It's been my contention that the De Niro guy had the whole thing set up all along. While Vincent was in the joint, De Niro was running his operations (including the bar where the killing is done). Vincent's return means surrendering things back to him, but De Niro has a good thing going, and wants to keep everything. He knows about the animosity between Vincent and Pesci and arranges them to run into each other at the welcome-home party. Nature takes its course. De Niro helps get rid of Vincent because he wants to keep things as they are. But someone is going to have to pay for Vincent's death and from the start De Niro has been planning to dump it Pesci. We don't see how he does that, but I'm confident that's what happens.

At an event where Nicholas Pileggi was present I ran this scenario by him and he told me it sounded plausible (he couldn't recall all the particulars of the events by then and didn't want to commit himself). Good enough for me.

« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 11:46:08 AM by dave jenkins » Logged


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« Reply #137 on: October 10, 2017, 12:18:19 PM »

I never read the book. But it’s my understanding that the real-life guy that Pesci was based on (Tommy DeSimone, I think?) was a crackpot who just disappeared and that the movie’s depiction of what happened to him is simply one possible scenario. Is this correct? That could explain why in the movie only Pesci gets punished – because in real life he’s the only one of the three who disappeared. So the movie decided to invent a reason for how/why he died, without properly explaining why the same fate did not fall to his co-conspirators.


As to your theory, DJ, and your discussion with Pileggi:  did he seriously say that this is a plausible theory? Or is it just one of those, “we don’t know, so anything is possible” deals? If the former, was he referring to the real-life or the movie or both?

So you say that when De Niro keeps calling on the payphone to find out if Pesci was “made,” he’s really calling to find out if Pesci was killed. And when he goes crazy and is distraught upon hearing that Pesci is dead, it’s all an act?

« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 07:19:42 PM by drinkanddestroy » Logged

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« Reply #138 on: October 10, 2017, 01:23:24 PM »

I was talking to Pileggi about what actually happened. We never discussed the movie at all.

The movie is (mostly) from Liotta's POV, so not realizing DeNiro has set the whole thing up would be part of his limited understanding of events. And DeNiro on the pay phone would necessarily be an act if he had really been arranging things. But there's no reason to assume that the character would have had to be the actor DeNiro was to pull it off. This performance could be the result of Liotta projecting back on the event from a distant future.

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« Reply #139 on: October 10, 2017, 07:23:38 PM »

I was talking to Pileggi about what actually happened. We never discussed the movie at all.

The movie is (mostly) from Liotta's POV, so not realizing DeNiro has set the whole thing up would be part of his limited understanding of events. And DeNiro on the pay phone would necessarily be an act if he had really been arranging things. But there's no reason to assume that the character would have had to be the actor DeNiro was to pull it off. This performance could be the result of Liotta projecting back on the event from a distant future.

in a way it kind of makes sense, actually: De Niro is the one who informs Liotta that Pesci will be made, as if De Niro was in on the plan and Liotta was not. Then, on the big day, De Niro is constantly calling, extremely nervous, supposedly to hear the MOMENT Tommy gets made. I know that being made is the most significant event in the life of a gangster, but why is it so important for De Niro to know the MOMENT Tommy gets made? Can't he wait for Tommy to return triumphantly? It kind of makes sense: De Niro set it all up. And it's understandable that he'd be nervous until the moment the dirty deed was carried out.

Of course, not likely that Pileggi/Scorsese were thinking that. But it works out well, anyway  Afro

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« Reply #140 on: October 11, 2017, 06:50:18 AM »

in a way it kind of makes sense, actually: De Niro is the one who informs Liotta that Pesci will be made, as if De Niro was in on the plan and Liotta was not. Then, on the big day, De Niro is constantly calling, extremely nervous, supposedly to hear the MOMENT Tommy gets made. I know that being made is the most significant event in the life of a gangster, but why is it so important for De Niro to know the MOMENT Tommy gets made? Can't he wait for Tommy to return triumphantly? It kind of makes sense: De Niro set it all up. And it's understandable that he'd be nervous until the moment the dirty deed was carried out.

Of course, not likely that Pileggi/Scorsese were thinking that. But it works out well, anyway  Afro
Dude, you've convinced me! Now I think I'm ready to hear about the OUATIA dream theory again . . .

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« Reply #141 on: October 12, 2017, 09:47:41 AM »

Skip Homeier June 25, 2017 (age 86) we missed this one he was in some memorable films. R.I.P

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