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Author Topic: LEONE SCENE YOU DISLIKE.  (Read 22412 times)
Banjo
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« Reply #60 on: June 21, 2006, 02:55:31 AM »

No Hammer Horror style coyness (which was due entierly to British censorship attitudes (which meant their films were constantly cut no matter what they did!) than artistic considerations
I was referring to the very early Hammer films(the best!) especially the first Dracula and Dracula,Prince Of Darkness-and i'm willing to bet that these weren't cut.Its very often what you can't see that is more disturbing and Christoper Lee admits that the Dracula movies went downhill in quality as soon as they decided to pander to fashion and the violence became more graphic with all the bloodletting etc.
No matter how Leone dealt with the rape scene,a rape is a rape and no woman is ever going to forgive an ex-boyfriend for that.We don't need to see all the detail to know how traumatic it must've been for Deborah.A very very bad piece of filmmaking. Sad

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« Reply #61 on: June 21, 2006, 09:17:05 AM »

Heated debate now. Although I hate it, and have sat through screenings with female friends who can't watch it, the rape scene in OUATIA is as essential as the same scene in GUI LA TESTA is clumsy, stupid, gross, vulgar, utterly pointless and all too telling of Italian macho sensibilities of that era. In that scene Noodles not only destroys the audience sympathy with his dim witted character, Leone also shows with no way back, exactly why Deborah and Noodles split so dramatically.

No Hammer Horror style coyness (which was due entierly to British censorship attitudes (which meant their films were constantly cut no matter what they did!) than artistic considerations, and anyway, see the disgusting rape sequence in FRANKENSTEIN MUST BE DESTROYED) could have made such a schism convincing. Leone shows it, and shows it again. Revolting stuff yes, but part of the visceral power of the film. Without such a dramatic event, Deborah's repudiation of Noodles would have made no sense, especially as the film is seen almost entierly from Noodles' point of view.
What he said.

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« Reply #62 on: June 21, 2006, 11:36:21 PM »

Many of the scenes I don't like have been named. I'll add, off hand, the graveyard scene in FOD which is absolutely moronic, like watching adults playing children games. Of course I don't like also the whole of UOTA.


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« Reply #63 on: June 22, 2006, 01:36:57 PM »

Of course I don't like also the whole of UOTA.
I almost agree 100%
It has its moments but with UOTA Leone finally cut out all the excitement  prevalent in his first Dollars trilogy.OUTA is over indulgent,overlong,tedious and its tragic that Leone almost certainly shortened his life with the long drawn out stressful process he went through to make this movie.Gimme GBU anyday Wink

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« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2006, 02:12:52 PM »

the complete and utter lack of blood
Come off it! We're talking about a western made over 40 years ago when many of the great American westerns  of the time and beforehand didn't show blood either-does this cheapen the John Ford westerns?
Anyway i much prefer to see no blood at all than watch Peckinpahs overblown gratuitous bloodfests-all that SLOW MOTION CRAP is faker than anything Leone or Eastwood did in their action sequences.

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« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2006, 08:31:58 AM »

Yeah, but in John Ford's films they weren't machine gunned about twenty times.  I don't recall Ethan Edwards shooting up Chief Scar's camp with an AR-15.

In any case, I'm just saying in that particular scene.  It just so fake it's impossible to take it seriously.  I don't have a problem with lack of blood in OUATITW or GBU - you know me better than that.  Tongue

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« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2006, 11:34:03 AM »

Don't let us forget that FOD is an ancient film made on a tiny budget-and anyway i've seen plenty of classic old war films with tanks,machine guns etc but you never see any blood there either-we all know its none of its for real so it really ain't no big deal  Roll Eyes

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« Reply #67 on: June 27, 2006, 04:06:46 AM »

I almost agree 100%
It has its moments but with UOTA Leone finally cut out all the excitement  prevalent in his first Dollars trilogy.OUTA is over indulgent,overlong,tedious and its tragic that Leone almost certainly shortened his life with the long drawn out stressful process he went through to make this movie.Gimme GBU anyday Wink


Story telling wise and tech wise, OUATIA is Leone's best and most complex film. I certainly think its the work of pure genius but of course it is also the hardest to watch of all his films (havent seen colussus of Rhodes).
The two rape scenes dont bother me in the slightest(The first is too comical to take seriously). Debrah's rape is long but effective and needed. If it was a "quickie" we would have not felt any impact of such a horrible act, the horror was needed to be shown.


I'll mention a Leone scene I dislike though I'm sure I'll get flamed for mentioning it...

The scene in FAFDM where Mortimer and Manco are both viewing Indio's wanted poster  at the same time. The amount of close-ups accompanied by gunshots is just unbearable for me. Leone seems to be anamored with this annoying parlor trick of showing linkage between the two protaganists. I got the hint the first time when both Mortimer and Manco were staring at the same poster.
Additional close-ups and fast cuts were not needed.

What pesters me even more is the fact that everybody thinks that particular scene is genius.

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« Reply #68 on: June 27, 2006, 04:10:34 AM »

Don't let us forget that FOD is an ancient film made on a tiny budget-and anyway i've seen plenty of classic old war films with tanks,machine guns etc but you never see any blood there either-we all know its none of its for real so it really ain't no big deal  Roll Eyes

Its funny how different people from different generations see things so differently. Grin

Try watching GBU with a teen today. When there is a gunfight and somebody gets shot the first comment they will make is "where is the blood?".

Watch that same scene with an adult who grew up in the 60's and the only comment they will make about that scene will be a positive one.


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« Reply #69 on: June 29, 2006, 03:46:54 AM »

If it was a "quickie" we would have not felt any impact of such a horrible act, the horror was needed to be shown.
My main complaint wasn't so much the length of Deborahs rape but the showing of too much detail.I can't think of an example offhand but there must be a few films out there where theres a rape involved which is important to the plot but is much better handled by the director concerned without surrendering any of the impact of this unsavoury occurence. Roll Eyes
BTW there maybe some clever technical stuff in OUATIA but for story telling this ain't a patch on GBU-and you can understand the storyline 100% without worrying about dream theories Grin
Sorry but i'm one of those guys that think the Indio poster scene is ACE!!! Cheesy

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« Reply #70 on: June 29, 2006, 03:49:12 AM »

Its funny how different people from different generations see things so differently. Grin

Try watching GBU with a teen today. When there is a gunfight and somebody gets shot the first comment they will make is "where is the blood?".

Watch that same scene with an adult who grew up in the 60's and the only comment they will make about that scene will be a positive one.


Yeah for anyone demanding of a bit of blood and gore maybe they shouldn't bother with anyone made pre-1970.

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« Reply #71 on: June 29, 2006, 06:52:52 AM »

Don't let us forget that FOD is an ancient film made on a tiny budget-and anyway i've seen plenty of classic old war films with tanks,machine guns etc but you never see any blood there either-we all know its none of its for real so it really ain't no big deal  Roll Eyes

The fact that the Mexicans were wearing white uniforms didn't help matters.  As I've said I don't dislike movies just because they lack blood, hell most of my favorite movies have next to none!  But most movie characters show blood at least after they're dead.  The FOD scene in question is so blatantly fake it's impossible to suspend disbelief.  Dunno if it was the budget or the way the scene was shot, it's just bad.

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« Reply #72 on: June 30, 2006, 07:59:06 AM »

The fact that the Mexicans were wearing white uniforms didn't help matters.  As I've said I don't dislike movies just because they lack blood, hell most of my favorite movies have next to none!  But most movie characters show blood at least after they're dead.  The FOD scene in question is so blatantly fake it's impossible to suspend disbelief.  Dunno if it was the budget or the way the scene was shot, it's just bad.
I still think you're being a bit harsh because this movie was shot on a shoestring.I'm sure Clint says on the SE disc or somewhere that they were so hard up that he had to closely guard all the props and costumes-especially the poncho and the hat because they only had one of everything.
Hey this wasn't the one scene in FOD that was directed  by Valerii that i read somewhere or was this another scene? Roll Eyes

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« Reply #73 on: June 30, 2006, 01:19:09 PM »


Story telling wise and tech wise, OUATIA is Leone's best and most complex film. I certainly think its the work of pure genius but of course it is also the hardest to watch of all his films (havent seen colussus of Rhodes).
The two rape scenes dont bother me in the slightest(The first is too comical to take seriously). Debrah's rape is long but effective and needed. If it was a "quickie" we would have not felt any impact of such a horrible act, the horror was needed to be shown.


I'll mention a Leone scene I dislike though I'm sure I'll get flamed for mentioning it...

The scene in FAFDM where Mortimer and Manco are both viewing Indio's wanted poster  at the same time. The amount of close-ups accompanied by gunshots is just unbearable for me. Leone seems to be anamored with this annoying parlor trick of showing linkage between the two protaganists. I got the hint the first time when both Mortimer and Manco were staring at the same poster.
Additional close-ups and fast cuts were not needed.

What pesters me even more is the fact that everybody thinks that particular scene is genius.

I think the wanted poster scene is cool. Is it a Leone masterpiece? No. I don't think it's silly either. It shows the motivations behind the characters ( Monco-money/Mortimer-revenge ) without any dialogue.

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« Reply #74 on: June 30, 2006, 02:50:16 PM »

True, Banjo, but the fact that the movie was low-budget doesn't make it any better for me.  I guess I can't make fun of "Manos: The Hand of Fate" because it was shot on a budget of like $12,000. 

Actually, FOD is by far my least favorite Leone film.  The low budget is a big part of it, but it isn't the only part.

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