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Author Topic: UNSEEN FOOTAGE from a rare and mysterious Italian IB TECH 35MM print  (Read 8357 times)
stanton
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« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2016, 05:16:57 AM »



What is this "Stanton cut"?


The perfect version that I would release, of course. Italian version minus 2 scenes (Eastwood and LvC in their night camp, Wallach asking for the way to the monastery) and with the shorter torture Scene and (why not?) with that short scene at the end with Eastwood mounting his horse. And of course without the cave scene.

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« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2016, 10:05:44 AM »

Sounds good!

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2016, 12:02:50 PM »

I'm going to do an entire blog post with references from all the different prints in an attempt to clarify the whole issue over the color timing. Stay tuned...
That's what I'm doing.

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Jordan Krug
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« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2016, 02:17:55 PM »

That's what I'm doing.

Cool, maybe we can join forces! I'm hoping to post samples from all 5 35mm prints that we scanned, four of them are 1966/1967 vintage.

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Lil Brutto
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« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2016, 02:24:28 PM »

DJ, what elements are you planning to include in your color timing analysis? I know you attended the IB tech screening at the NewBev last year.

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dave jenkins
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« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2016, 03:10:38 PM »

No, no, all I was saying was I'm "staying tuned" as Jordan Krug advised. I don't have the wherewithal to offer anything like what you're doing. I did attend the screening of the IB Tech print shown in LA last year, and I'd be happy to confirm anything you guys may say about it, but that's about all I can manage. Sorry for the confusion.

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« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2016, 03:20:54 PM »

The perfect version that I would release, of course. Italian version minus 2 scenes (Eastwood and LvC in their night camp, Wallach asking for the way to the monastery) and with the shorter torture Scene and (why not?) with that short scene at the end with Eastwood mounting his horse. And of course without the cave scene.
That's certainly not the version I'd release. No, the "DJ Cut" would include everything that's out there, plus several things that aren't: Socorro, of course, but also the scene where AE and Wallace ambush the Union soldiers and steal their identities. I'd also have Bob Hope speaking to the Union troops just before the final charge at Langstone Bridge. I'd probably also release GBU 2, where Tuco finally catches up to Blondie and gives him the death he deserves. Somebody point me in the direction of the nearest CGI office suite!

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« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2016, 03:31:27 PM »

Lol

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« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2016, 07:57:12 PM »

RE: the perfect version of GBU:

I presume that the original Italian release version - not the one from the Rome premiere, but the one released widely in theaters -- is the version Leone probably wanted? That would be my preferred version. I believe that is identical to the MGM extended DVD/BRD, minus the Cave scene, right?

Of course, since the restored scenes have no English dialogue dubbed in 1967, we'd have to use the 2003 dialogue. I can live with that. But I'd prefer to have all of the Aldo Giuffre character's English-language dialogue re-dubbed by one voice actor. As it is now, part of his dialogue was dubbed by a voice actor for the 1967 release, and the other part (of him discussing alcohol, which was not in the 1967 US release) was dubbed by another voice actor in 2004, and the difference is glaring. I'd like to have all his dialogue dubbed by one voice actor.

Of course, I'd like the original English mono audio.

For color, from the existing versions, I'd say that the best is probably the MGM SE DVD, or the Italian Mondo BRD (but that BRD has awful issues, with a jump image - what is the proper term, is it "grading"?)

I do not like the piss color of the most recent release or the red faces of the MGM BRD. So I guess that the color of the MGM SE DVD, or the Mondo minus the grading issues, would be good.

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« Reply #24 on: June 04, 2016, 10:06:05 PM »

The colors as it was originally presented theatrically back in the 60s is how I want to see it.

Over the past few years I've come full circle and prefer the International Cut, which is the only version I knew for 20 years. If it had included the Fort scene it would have been absolutely perfect, in my opinion.

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« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2016, 10:56:09 PM »

The colors as it was originally presented theatrically back in the 60s is how I want to see it.

Over the past few years I've come full circle and prefer the International Cut, which is the only version I knew for 20 years. If it had included the Fort scene it would have been absolutely perfect, in my opinion.

I think everyone in the world wants to see the color as it looked back in the 60's. Question is, how did it look?

I doubt that even people like CJ and Cusser, who saw the film in theater on original release, can remember the exact color. However, I am sure that neither the red faces of the 2009 BRD, nor the awful piss of the 2014 BRD, are the correct colors.

For those of you who like the International Cut, I guess the 1997 MGM DVD is great - you have your version of the film, plus the other scenes as bonus features (albeit without English dialogue). For people like me who want to see the extra scenes as part of the movie, we have to choose from a range of less-than-perfect options. We've gone over the drawbacks to each version extensively - the red faces of 2009 MGM BRD; the piss of the 2014 BRD (the only extended version with original English mono audio); the lack of mono and John Jerk's fake gunshots on the  MGM SE DVD; the grading issue (is that the right word?) and no English audio on the Mondo BRD.

Of course, I wish a definitive version is produced - proper color, mono audio, and seamless branching options so that each viewer can choose which scene(s) to see.

But for the options we have now, when I want to watch the movie I think that I'll probably choose the SE DVD. But if I want to hear Frayling's commentary, which is only on the BRD, then I'll choose the 2009 BRD. Perhaps because those were the first discs that I saw the movie on, so I got used to them. I can understand, of course, how someone who saw and loved the International version for 35 years can prefer that version. To me, the movie HAS TO include the Fort scene. Also, I don't know why you'd have a problem with including the night scene where Tuco drives Blondie in the coach to the Confederate base - it gives a bit of info about the location, explains how Tuco suddenly remembers, hey this place is near his brother's mission; it's a brief scene, I do not know why it would bother you.
IMO the unnecessary scene is the one with Blondie and Angel Eyes bivouacked near the river, and Angel Eyes's men come out of hiding. I do not see what that adds to the story at all. That scene tells us that AE's men were hiding and then came out of hiding; Without that scene, we'd have never known they were hiding at all; we'd have just thought they all left the camp together, with AE and Blondie. Am I wrong? Also, you hear a train whistle at the end of the scene, letting us know that the train with Tuco and Wallace is nearby. Okay. Not a necessary scene. Also, the extra footage of Tuco taunting Blondie in the desert is IMO not necessary. But neither is the Gunshop sequence. Nor is the sequence of the Union captain lecturing AE to treat the POW's humanely - all that accomplishes is getting in a historical reference to Andersonville, with AE making the same arguments (lack of supplies) that the commandant of Andersonville did.

Hey, there's lotsa stuff in GBU that's not necessary to the plot. But who cares? Plot ain't what this movie is about. In regard to the question of which scenes you want included, it's mostly not about plot; all about which scenes you enjoy or don't enjoy  Wink

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« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2016, 02:32:43 AM »



Hey, there's lotsa stuff in GBU that's not necessary to the plot. But who cares? Plot ain't what this movie is about. In regard to the question of which scenes you want included, it's mostly not about plot; all about which scenes you enjoy or don't enjoy  Wink

Of course, that's one reason. The more important is that a film has a certain rhythm, and adding or removing scenes can become problematic for that. The scenes I mentioned have no importance for the plot, are visually bland (are amongst the weakest of the film), do not add anything important to the civil war background motives and slow down the film too much. These scenes destroy the perfect harmony and make GBU a little bit less good.

But then GBU was already a masterpiece in the 161 min version, while the British 148 min version did some damage to the film. Or the strange German TV version which run for about 141 min.

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stanton
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« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2016, 02:35:47 AM »

That's certainly not the version I'd release. No, the "DJ Cut" would include everything that's out there, plus several things that aren't: Socorro, of course, but also the scene where AE and Wallace ambush the Union soldiers and steal their identities. I'd also have Bob Hope speaking to the Union troops just before the final charge at Langstone Bridge.

You forgot the alternative ending with Sentenza winning the triello. I forgot that too.

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« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2016, 07:27:56 AM »

You forgot the alternative ending with Sentenza winning the triello. I forgot that too.

Or that they all shoot each other (Blondie gets off a shot at both Tuco and AE, but AE gets off a shot at Blondie) and the gold stays buried in the grave, to be found by Leone fans making the pilgrimage to shooting locations in Spain.

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« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2016, 08:29:16 AM »


Of course, since the restored scenes have no English dialogue dubbed in 1967, we'd have to use the 2003 dialogue.
Why? The soundtrack could revert to Italian with English subtitles. Plenty of titles use this technique now.

Anyway, insisting on a single version of this film is childish. There has to be a version that resembles what was seen in US theaters in January of 1968. There has to be a version that resembles what was seen in Italian cinemas in 1967. If someone wants 2003 in English, well, that's yet another version. There may be any number of alternate cuts out there with various dubs that are worth keeping. Let's keep them all and celebrate the differences.

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