Soundtrack Question

[The Peacemaker]

Hey everyone, I haven’t posted on here for a few years now, mainly because I ran out of Leone stuff to talk about. Hope everyone has been well, nothing too crazy going on with me save for the normal life progression and whatnot. Anyway I had a soundtrack related question and came here to ask those who know best!

I was discussing Duck You Sucker with a coworker and I was struck by his interpretation of the final flashback based on the infamous music cue. Like many Leone fans, it’s really bugged me ever since getting the DVD so many years ago (my how a decade goes quick). Now that I have more knowledge and equipment, I wish to put together my own fan edit with correct musical cues so I don't quietly curse to myself every time I view the film.

I know for certain that the flashback to the pub where Mallory kills his friend should feature the Giu la Testa #6 track on the expanded soundtrack (the restoration folks seem to have used Giu la Testa #5 instead with an odd cut and cross dissolve, why this was changed in the first place I haven’t a clue). The final flashback should obviously feature the full Giu la Testa theme that was released initially on vinyls in the 60s and 70s instead of the horrendous mix of GLT #5 again and another version of the main theme (I think I Figli Morti on the CD). The rest of the alterations seem minimal and IMO does not warrant reworking for my personal edit.

My main confusion comes from the end credits which, after hearing an Italian cut of the film online, sounds different from anything I’ve heard on the expanded CD. Here is a link to it (starts at 2:40): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64KdI80rANw&index=3&

Is it GLT #5 with a PAL speedup? Or is it a different version of the main theme that was never released?

[noodles_leone]

Welcome back Mr Peacemaker

[drinkanddestroy]

Hey everyone, I haven’t posted on here for a few years now, mainly because I ran out of Leone stuff to talk about. Hope everyone has been well, nothing too crazy going on with me save for the normal life progression and whatnot. Anyway I had a soundtrack related question and came here to ask those who know best!

I was discussing Duck You Sucker with a coworker and I was struck by his interpretation of the final flashback based on the infamous music cue. Like many Leone fans, it’s really bugged me ever since getting the DVD so many years ago (my how a decade goes quick). Now that I have more knowledge and equipment, I wish to put together my own fan edit with correct musical cues so I don't quietly curse to myself every time I view the film.

I know for certain that the flashback to the pub where Mallory kills his friend should feature the Giu la Testa #6 track on the expanded soundtrack (the restoration folks seem to have used Giu la Testa #5 instead with an odd cut and cross dissolve, why this was changed in the first place I haven’t a clue). The final flashback should obviously feature the full Giu la Testa theme that was released initially on vinyls in the 60s and 70s instead of the horrendous mix of GLT #5 again and another version of the main theme (I think I Figli Morti on the CD). The rest of the alterations seem minimal and IMO does not warrant reworking for my personal edit.

My main confusion comes from the end credits which, after hearing an Italian cut of the film online, sounds different from anything I’ve heard on the expanded CD. Here is a link to it (starts at 2:40): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64KdI80rANw&index=3&

Is it GLT #5 with a PAL speedup? Or is it a different version of the main theme that was never released?

Hello!

There is NEVER an end of Leone stuff to talk about 

in response to your questions, have you read through this thread? http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10181.0

[cigar joe]

Allo Senior Peace. 

[Novecento]

My understanding is that the Italian Blu-ray got it right.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Giu-la-testa-Blu-ray/88870/

I never bought a copy to confirm, but perhaps that would be a good place to start.

[The Peacemaker]

in response to your questions, have you read through this thread? http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10181.0

Thanks drinkinganddestroy, I read through it and the thread reinforced what I understood about the flashback scenes. My confusion lies with the music played during the end credits. In the Italian version, the Giu la Testa track played as the credits roll doesn't sound like any of the versions featured on my expanded soundtrack. It just seems so odd considering the CD seems to feature almost every musical piece or cue found in the film.  


Also, hello again cigarjoe, noodles_leone, and Novecento!

[The clint]

My confusion lies with the music played during the end credits. In the Italian version, the Giu la Testa track played as the credits roll doesn't sound like any of the versions featured on my expanded soundtrack. It just seems so odd considering the CD seems to feature almost every musical piece or cue found in the film.

I can confirm that the version of Giù la testa played over the original end credits is absent from the expanded soundtrack. It can be found (in stereo) on the Italian DVD and BD, and (in mono) on the German audio track of the 2003 MGM DVD and the 1989 LD of the US theatrical cut from Image entertainment (in horrible, wobbly quality). I hope this has been of help.

[Cusser]

Any link to this music?

[Novecento]

I can confirm that the version of Giù la testa played over the original end credits is absent from the expanded soundtrack. It can be found (in stereo) on the Italian DVD and BD, and (in mono) on the German audio track of the 2003 MGM DVD and the 1989 LD of the US theatrical cut from Image entertainment (in horrible, wobbly quality). I hope this has been of help.

If I ever upgrade my DVD, I'll be buying the Italian BD unless anything else comes out in the meantime. Thanks for confirming!

[The clint]

Any link to this music?

Well... It's here, but the quality is horrible 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64KdI80rANw

[The Peacemaker]

I can confirm that the version of Giù la testa played over the original end credits is absent from the expanded soundtrack. It can be found (in stereo) on the Italian DVD and BD, and (in mono) on the German audio track of the 2003 MGM DVD and the 1989 LD of the US theatrical cut from Image entertainment (in horrible, wobbly quality). I hope this has been of help.

So I asked a friend of mine to torrent the film so I can make my fan edit. Much to my surprise, the version he got me was the English version straight from the Italian Blu Ray!

The final credits do in fact feature a Giu La Testa composition that is absent from all the soundtrack releases including the expanded one. Very interesting how there's some music from this film floating around somewhere that we can't seem to access (including the butchers who spearheaded the English restoration). I also happened upon a version of the theme featured on the Japanese CD that was not featured in the film or anywhere else. It is roughly the same length as the main theme from the vinyl releases and final flashback, but features no accompanying "Sean" chants, just instrumental punctuations. I found it at this link before you had to get an account, haven't signed up: http://tidido.com/a35184372109153/al5432a7a2196dee63468d2540/t5433ed16196dee9e148e951f


But back to the torrented copy; once you've seen the  Englih language version of the film from the Italian disc, you can't go back to the MGM copy. It's a travesty what the restoration team did, incorrect music and expletive deletion aside, you suddenly realize the 5.1 mix is awful beyond words once you've heard the original mono. Sure the explosions don't pack the same wallop, but the sound mix overall is so much cleaner and uniform. The 5.1 mix sounded like two drastically different audio sources cobbled together by a freshman film major (which I suspect is the case, the sound mix in the reistored scenes, like when Aschenbach is blown up in the church, sounds identical to the English mono with an extra bass-ey explosion. Seamless in the Italian blu ray copy, but sore thumb material on the MGM dvd).

I personally recommend every fan of this movie do themselves a favor and get a copy of the English mono version. It does true justice to this sadly overlooked film.

[drinkanddestroy]

So I asked a friend of mine to torrent the film so I can make my fan edit. Much to my surprise, the version he got me was the English version straight from the Italian Blu Ray!

The final credits do in fact feature a Giu La Testa composition that is absent from all the soundtrack releases including the expanded one. Very interesting how there's some music from this film floating around somewhere that we can't seem to access (including the butchers who spearheaded the English restoration). I also happened upon a version of the theme featured on the Japanese CD that was not featured in the film or anywhere else. It is roughly the same length as the main theme from the vinyl releases and final flashback, but features no accompanying "Sean" chants, just instrumental punctuations. I found it at this link before you had to get an account, haven't signed up: http://tidido.com/a35184372109153/al5432a7a2196dee63468d2540/t5433ed16196dee9e148e951f


But back to the torrented copy; once you've seen the  Englih language version of the film from the Italian disc, you can't go back to the MGM copy. It's a travesty what the restoration team did, incorrect music and expletive deletion aside, you suddenly realize the 5.1 mix is awful beyond words once you've heard the original mono. Sure the explosions don't pack the same wallop, but the sound mix overall is so much cleaner and uniform. The 5.1 mix sounded like two drastically different audio sources cobbled together by a freshman film major (which I suspect is the case, the sound mix in the reistored scenes, like when Aschenbach is blown up in the church, sounds identical to the English mono with an extra bass-ey explosion. Seamless in the Italian blu ray copy, but sore thumb material on the MGM dvd).

I personally recommend every fan of this movie do themselves a favor and get a copy of the English mono version. It does true justice to this sadly overlooked film.

so the Italian BRD has an Enlish-language option? is the disc region-free?

[dave jenkins]

Another question is, Where can I get the Italian blu? amazon.it doesn't have any copies in stock.

[Novecento]

They'll have it back in stock soon, I'm sure. For some reason that seems to happen often with amazon.it

If you're desperate to get it now, I'd use ibs.it which is very reliable (I used to use them all the time before amazon.it appeared) but international shipping is expensive.

[The Peacemaker]

Well my friend torrented Duck You Sucker and downloaded the best link he could find, so I'm not 100% on the exact source but I'm assuming it's the Italian blu ray or DVD. The version I got features the restored sequences (Mao quote, church dynamiting, full end flashback) with English mono sound mix (yes all the correct musical cues, bells & whistles) and Italian titles. It's SD quality (720x304 with the letterbox removed) but appears to be very high quality compression, which is why I assumed the torrent's source is blu ray rather than regular DVD.

The only downside to this version is the odd color grading (from what I understand is not unique to DYS alone but all of the Leone restorations). MGM managed to achieve a more natural look to the color palette of the film, the difference being noticeable when you first watch this cut though I quickly got used to it.


*post edit:
Just remembered another drawback to the version of DYS I inherited; the last two lines of dialogue by Juan ("Johnny!" "What about me?") are from the Italian cut despite the rest of the film being in English. So strange as both lines are uttered by Steiger on the MGM copy, so it's not like he never recorded the lines when the American distributors started cutting material before theatrical release.