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Author Topic: Sean or John?  (Read 18119 times)
Concorde
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« on: September 08, 2004, 06:05:04 AM »

 Huh

What exactly is the name of James Coburn's character in DUCK YOU SUCKER -- is it Sean or John?

Somebody in another thread said it's Sean, but that he uses an "old IRA trick" of Anglicizing the name. Since the IRA didn'tr even exist at the time in which the film was set (the "IRA" flag he carries is an anachronism), I tend to doubt this.

I'd always thought he was John, and his friend in Ireland (seen in the flashbacks) was Sean. Can anyone confirm/refute this?

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Lewis Hawk
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2004, 09:38:29 AM »

i think "john" was originally called "sean" but he's change his name. Why? I don't know. Perhaps leone uses this anachronism about IRA again. But in the flash back music, the voice sings "Sean sean,... Sean sean" and leone said that it recalled the original gaelic name of john so..............

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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2004, 02:50:22 PM »

My theory is that he is called Sean but known as John in English circles because thats often what the IRA (or at least the IRB) did. If you notice, when Juan first asks him his name, he says Sean at first. Then when he doesnt understand, says John, the English version.

Never heard the theory that his friend was Sean tho...  Huh

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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2004, 03:35:31 AM »

Huh

What exactly is the name of James Coburn's character in DUCK YOU SUCKER -- is it Sean or John?

Somebody in another thread said it's Sean, but that he uses an "old IRA trick" of Anglicizing the name. Since the IRA didn'tr even exist at the time in which the film was set (the "IRA" flag he carries is an anachronism), I tend to doubt this.

I'd always thought he was John, and his friend in Ireland (seen in the flashbacks) was Sean. Can anyone confirm/refute this?
The "old IRA trick" of Anglicizing names of places, people etc. goes back centuries. Obviously not started by the IRA but certainly carried on by them. It was a tatic used very successfully by the forerunners of the IRA, called the IRISH REPUBLICAN BROTHERHOOD (IRB) who were certainly in existance at the time of the movies setting (1913) three years before the (official)birth of the IRA (24th April 1916).
The "tactic" was used recently (in history terms) during the hunger strikes in N.I. For a full breakdown read TEN MEN DEAD.

« Last Edit: September 09, 2004, 03:41:15 AM by Belkin » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2004, 06:09:54 AM »

Thanks for all the info, folks!

Yes, I noticed that bit where Mallory seems to hesitate and give his name two different ways when Juan asks him what his name is, but I wondered if maybe he's still feeling guilty over what happened in Ireland and was sort of assuming the ID of his dead friend, thus calling himself "Sean" -- or at least trying to.

Oh, well...an idea perhaps, but after weighing the evidence I'm ready to side with "Sean" being Mallory's real first name.

NOW, bear with me on ANOTHER name question: What is the name of Mallory's slain friend back in Ireland? I've heard him called "Nolan" but, as I recall, there is no dialogue at all in the Irish scenes. What's the source of that name...or does he have another name?...or is he <gulp>...a Man With No Name?!

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Lewis Hawk
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2004, 10:38:19 AM »

there are no dialogs in this wonderfull flash back and Sean doesn't really talk about this event of his past. He don't talk about this friend so his name....
The one who can know that can only have been a  friend of leone...

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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2004, 09:11:01 PM »

Apparently Professor Frayling -- who has recorded a commentary track for the MGM Special Edition DVD of DUCK YOU SUCKER -- thinks that Mallory's friend from the Irish flashbacks is named "Ryan."

I wonder where he got THAT?   Huh

Anybody have any clue?

Those who have seen the movie's script say the friend is called "Nolan" there. I don't think any name for him is ever spoken aloud (or shown onscreen) during the movie, although Coburn's character is identified on-camera as "John Mallory" in the newspaper which Juan's gang finds in his baggage.


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grandpa_chum
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2004, 10:46:25 PM »

special edition??!!! did i miss something... do you have anymore info on that?

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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2004, 06:16:42 AM »

 Wink

Don't get too excited -- this is a long-term project and will not be in the stores anytime soon. But yeah, I recently talked to a guy at MGM who is actively working on the project. Christopher Frayling recorded a commentary track, which is how the "Ryan" observation came up.

BTW, This disc is being done right, with the same loving care they put into the recent DVD of THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY. (Same production crew is handling the work for it.)

Sooo..AHEM...it's more important than ever to figure out what Mallory's friend's name is!

Usually for such matters I refer to the DUCK YOU SUCKER novelization or to the theatrical pressbook, but here I'm stonewalled. The novelization incredibly does not include the flashback scenes (!!!)...and the pressbook lists the cast but eliminates David Warbeck completely!

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« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2004, 10:59:23 AM »

For the name of Mallory's friends, it's not cause he has not in the movie that he has not in the Leone conception of the movie. It's more easy to give names, as if you don't use them...

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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2004, 11:01:32 AM »

anyway it's great to hear that they are actually working on a special edition and that they chose the right guy to do the commentary... i'm sure they'll do it right, i'm guessing it will be the same version i saw when they rereleased it last fall in theatres.

I guess i don't understand why you guys even feel that john's friend even has a name?

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« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2004, 02:01:06 PM »

sure! we could try to find the name of the girl in the flash back!!! it has no interest!

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Jon
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« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2004, 11:35:08 AM »

MGM special edition! Hurray! I've bought this movie twice already on DVD [UK and Italian versions], and, well, I'm looking forward to buying it again. Seriously, it's good that at last it's being done properly. Finally I will be able to watch it all on one disc without having to change from the UK to the Italian DVD near the end to get the final flashback!

I doubt that Leone ever gave Sean's friend or girlfriend names, after all it's not really important. Maybe we should just call his friend 'David'.

I once read [can't remember where] that Sean's friend was actually his BROTHER! That makes the whole menage a trois thing very wierd!


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grandpa_chum
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« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2004, 11:20:34 AM »

eh... i don't think that makes it any more wierd... still weird but.

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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2004, 10:44:54 AM »

i don't understand why you say that there is a menage a trois??? Only sean kiss the girl!!!

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