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Author Topic: Kino Lorber 2 - Disc 4K Blu-ray 2017  (Read 11131 times)
Lil Brutto
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« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2017, 10:42:08 AM »

There you have it. KL is not using an IB TECH print any other source as a color reference.

MisterLime says:

"One of the main reasons we acquired THE GOOD, THE BAD & THE UGLY was to FINALLY release the beloved theatrical cut. Many of the older fans who grew up watching the original disliked and even hated the extended cut, not just because it almost ruins the masterpiece, but also because it had completely replaced the original.

We had no idea the 4K restoration had some complaints due to the overall yellowishness of the master. We decided to do our own tests and agreed that it was a bit too yellow, so we did some minor color correction to create a version we feel is closest to the prints we had all seen screened many times and we don't agree with fans who think we should've gone further to create the look of the old releases, which we felt were too blue. What we'll be releasing will be the essential Blu-ray release of the classic, it will include both cuts, include all the previously produced extras and some very cool new ones. Will everyone be 100% happy with the transfer? We hope so, but realistically we doubt it, we think most of the fans will be very happy, some may still have issues with the color, and others will just post negative comments just to get a reaction because that's what they do."

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« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2017, 06:56:24 PM »

There you have it. KL is not using an IB TECH print any other source as a color reference.

MisterLime says:

"One of the main reasons we acquired THE GOOD, THE BAD & THE UGLY was to FINALLY release the beloved theatrical cut. Many of the older fans who grew up watching the original disliked and even hated the extended cut, not just because it almost ruins the masterpiece, but also because it had completely replaced the original.

We had no idea the 4K restoration had some complaints due to the overall yellowishness of the master. We decided to do our own tests and agreed that it was a bit too yellow, so we did some minor color correction to create a version we feel is closest to the prints we had all seen screened many times and we don't agree with fans who think we should've gone further to create the look of the old releases, which we felt were too blue. What we'll be releasing will be the essential Blu-ray release of the classic, it will include both cuts, include all the previously produced extras and some very cool new ones. Will everyone be 100% happy with the transfer? We hope so, but realistically we doubt it, we think most of the fans will be very happy, some may still have issues with the color, and others will just post negative comments just to get a reaction because that's what they do."


Thanks for this.

Did you mention that the 2003 MGM BRD (extended cut); 1997 MGM DVD (theatrical cut); and Mondo BRD all have good color that they can use as a reference?

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Lil Brutto
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« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2017, 08:59:35 PM »

They're going to do their own thing.

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« Reply #63 on: April 10, 2017, 07:16:32 AM »

MisterLime says:
.... and others will just post negative comments just to get a reaction because that's what they do."


There shouldn't be any negative comments worth taking seriously if the job is well done. Without wanting to knock Kino which is otherwise a great company, it seems that in this case they didn't quite realize what they were getting themselves into.

Having said that, the color grading on the MGM release really doesn't bother me that much, and aside from the grotto scene, I like the extended cut (i.e. Leone's cut when the grotto is excluded), so I'm not really the target audience for this one.

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« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2017, 08:50:57 AM »

Lil brutto and I have made Kino aware that the theatrical cut cannot be fully reconstructed using the MGM 4k extended cut as the only source...we pointed out the differences and even offered help. So far they have given a fairly dismissive reponse. If you want to see Leone's international cut reconstructed properly, please (diplomatically and politely) let Kino know in the  thread below. After 25+ years of mismashed home video releases, this is the chance to finally get it right..and Kino doesn't think enough people care. If you want Leone's cut honored exactly, please voice that now:

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/official-kino-insider-announcements-thread-strictly-moderated-read-guidelines.337771/page-248

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« Reply #65 on: April 12, 2017, 11:52:24 AM »

Thanks. I went to the thread (as "Jack Phillips of Kingsby Electronics") and made my feelings known. Maybe if enough people speak out KL will do the right thing.

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« Reply #66 on: April 12, 2017, 01:55:11 PM »

From HTF:

MisterLime: Okay, this needs to stop, I said all I will say about this, please take your complaints elsewhere. This thread is actually for announcements, questions and answers. The critical discussion thread is listed below:

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/critical-discussion-thread-your-thoughts-on-kino-lorber-blu-rays.337772/


My response (just in case it gets deleted):

Dozens of people excited, asking questions (I wasn't complaining) and talking in depth about a future release of a blu ray from Kino is a bad thing? Wow...so much for word of mouth publicity. I thought this thread was for future releases and the other thread was for discs already released. They're labelled that way. I guess there's nothing left to say anyways...seems an odd business move to avoid answering legitimate questions directly from your market, but you know best. I look forward to the release, and seeing what Kino has done with this amazing film, thank you.





Thanks to everyone who posted. The representative from Kino has essentially told us to "shut up", and he refuses to answer my polite and specific questions about the theatrical cut. So buyer beware I guess...at least we tried. This is only...motivation for the future Smiley

« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 02:21:41 PM by Jordan Krug » Logged
Lil Brutto
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« Reply #67 on: April 12, 2017, 07:18:41 PM »

MisterLime: Okay, this needs to stop, I said all I will say about this, please take your complaints elsewhere. This thread is actually for announcements, questions and answers.

Thanks to everyone who posted. The representative from Kino has essentially told us to "shut up", and he refuses to answer my polite and specific questions about the theatrical cut. So buyer beware I guess...at least we tried. This is only...motivation for the future Smiley

He'd be much better off responding to our queries honestly rather than ignoring/dismissing us as an annoyance.

UPDATE: He did provide some answers so that's good.

« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 01:05:55 PM by Lil Brutto » Logged

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« Reply #68 on: April 12, 2017, 07:32:28 PM »

Mr. Lime I guess has seen the potential errors of his ways and has given us a breakdown of their cut!:


Here's some answers to the questions posted by Lil Brutto

We'll do everything possible to release the best version of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. I'll notify everyone of any further revisions (if any), so please drop this and wait for the release before criticizing an upcoming release no one has seen yet.

1. Original 1967 production company credit is altered
Our release will include the "altered" credit.
2. There is supposed to be a “flip cut” transition/optical wipe from Tuco talking to Blondie (and taking a bite of his cigar) to being hung. The extended version simply cuts instead of doing the flip wipe (most likely because the flip cut was an optical not present in the original negative).
This will most likely be the same as the extended cut
3. There is not supposed to be a fade out on the gun shop owner with the sign in his mouth in the US theatrical cut. It is supposed to cut directly to the shot of the mass exodus of Sibley and his soldiers. Currently the extended cut fades out early to black, meaning it won’t be possible to use the tail end of the gun shop owner shot.
This scene will as it appeared in the original U.S. theatrical cut
4. The MGM 4K fades out earlier when Blondie passes out and Tuco is bringing him water in the desert. The fade out in the desert scene is supposed to happen approximately 2 to 3 seconds later.
This will most likely be the same as the extended cut
5. The MGM 4K has a dissolve from the night mission scene to the scene of the coach arriving to the mission. In the US theatrical cut, this shot is supposed to fade up from black, but now the dissolve is part of the beginning of the shot.
This scene will as it appeared in the original U.S. theatrical cut
6. The shot of the train leaving the station (with Tuco and Wallace on it) is longer in the US theatrical cut, before cutting directly to Tuco in the train and not dissolving out earlier to the early morning camp scene like the 4K.
This will most likely be the same as the extended cut

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« Reply #69 on: April 13, 2017, 11:31:33 AM »

I'm confused. If they have access to the theatrical cut to handle items #1, 3 and 5, then why use the extended cut for #2, 4 and 6 ?

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« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2017, 11:44:12 AM »

I'm confused. If they have access to the theatrical cut to handle items #1, 3 and 5, then why use the extended cut for #2, 4 and 6 ?

Someone asked this question. Here is misterlime's reply and a later post on the release date.

It all depends on what's available to us and what's not, all the film elements are in Italy and it all depends on which scans are available to us. We've paid a very large sum to acquire this classic and will be spending almost as much to get this released. We'll be releasing a 2-disc special edition of both cuts loaded with extras at our usual SRP, like we dd with the Sicilian Clan, One Million Years BC, The Wanderers and others.

We're not sure about the street date yet. We're hoping July, but it could be August. We're hopeful to add a couple of cool extras.

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« Reply #71 on: April 13, 2017, 12:40:07 PM »

But they will keep the grotto scene?

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Lil Brutto
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« Reply #72 on: April 13, 2017, 01:20:09 PM »

The grotto scene will be removed for their release version (which will be an approximation of the International Cut/US theatrical cut) and he says they have the elements to restore the original transition from the gun shop scene to the following mass exodus of confederate soldiers.

I find it strange that KL doesn't have access to the 35mm elements for the flip cut transition given it was used for the 2009 Sky Cinema restoration used for the Mondo BD.

We didn't get the opportunity to point that, in addition to entire scenes, there are more subtle shots here and there that were not in the IC. For example, the dining scene at Stevens ranch is shorter in the IC.

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« Reply #73 on: April 15, 2017, 01:42:02 AM »

I think the skeleton scene is the one posted online.
The way they word the source, it too obscure. I think La Traviatta ripped it and probably conned Kino by selling it to them. It's pretty obvious.

I'm fine with another variation, however, it would be great if they deleted that crap grotto scene from the extended version.

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« Reply #74 on: April 15, 2017, 07:44:19 AM »

I think the skeleton scene is the one posted online.
The way they word the source, it too obscure. I think La Traviatta ripped it and probably conned Kino by selling it to them. It's pretty obvious.

How do they word the source? I can't find the reference.

I'm fine with another variation, however, it would be great if they deleted that crap grotto scene from the extended version.

Seamless branching? That way you can choose whether to watch with or without.

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