Archival footage of Leone directing the French dub

[dave jenkins]

Re: post-modernism: OUATITW was Leone's homage to the Western, with references to American Western films.OUATIA was his homage to the gangster movie, with references to American gangster films. Frayling discusses this in STDWD, in his chapter on OUATIA http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?topic=10253.msg168004#msg168004

Very, very, very, very different films. Homages do not a Postmodern film make. What happens in OUATITW (which is filled with archetypes) is very different from what happens in OUATIA (which is filled with characters, clichéd though some of them may be).

[dave jenkins]

My Name Is Nobody?

It's a fucking parody! Parody has been with us since the beginning (hence the Greek name). Are you saying that every parody is a work of Postmodernism? You are so full of shit your eyes are brown.

[stanton]

It's a fucking parody! Parody has been with us since the beginning (hence the Greek name). Are you saying that every parody is a work of Postmodernism?

It's only a parody in parts, it's only a comedy in parts, it is also a typical SW in parts, and it is a real twilight western. And in its "serious" parts it is very post modern.

But you are right, OUTA is not post modern (maybe its main fault?), and Giu la testa also not, maybe in some parts, but not really.

You are so full of shit your eyes are brown.

Uh, yeah. Thanks for all the help. Asshole.

Stood up on the wrong foot this morning?

[dave jenkins]

It's only a parody in parts, it's only a comedy in parts, it is also a typical SW in parts, and it is a real twilight western. And in its "serious" parts it is very post modern.

Uh, could you give me a ferinstance from the "serious" parts? I'm assuming we agree on the definition of Postmodernism  (exhausted forms are re-invested with meaning via the appropriation of "texts").

[stanton]

Uh, could you give me a ferinstance

A what?

[dave jenkins]

ferinstance="for instance" (i.e. an example)

[stanton]

A ferinstance: actually the whole film, despite the funny parts, cause it is an absolute twilight western, very peckinpahesque, very melancholic in every Fonda scene. Half of the film is dead serious (the Fonda half), the other half is parodistic, and sometimes, but only sometimes, a mere comedy, and I would like to cut a few of this pure-comedy parts out, and make the film by that less clucherish and even more leonesque.

Give me a like for that ...

[dave jenkins]

Hmmmm . . .

[Novecento]

A ferinstance: actually the whole film, despite the funny parts, cause it is an absolute twilight western, very peckinpahesque, very melancholic in every Fonda scene. Half of the film is dead serious (the Fonda half), the other half is parodistic, and sometimes, but only sometimes, a mere comedy, and I would like to cut a few of this pure-comedy parts out, and make the film by that less clucherish and even more leonesque.

Give me a like for that ...

Like!  

Well broadly.... I mean not all the Fonda stuff is that serious - it's not like the opening scene takes itself that seriously for example, nor does the Morricone score all the time. However, I agree with your main point and think MNIN could have been a fantastic film had it not been for all the Trinity slapstick nonsense...

[mike siegel]

A ferinstance: actually the whole film, despite the funny parts, cause it is an absolute twilight western, very peckinpahesque, very melancholic in every Fonda scene. Half of the film is dead serious (the Fonda half), the other half is parodistic, and sometimes, but only sometimes, a mere comedy, and I would like to cut a few of this pure-comedy parts out, and make the film by that less clucherish and even more leonesque.

Give me a like for that ...

100% on target. The soundtrack speaks the same... The climax with that wonderful letter Fonda reads to his new friend... Never saw that scene without sharing a tear... Great stuff. FOR THOSE WHO GET IT  
 (Re-cutting: Yes. Back then the fast-motion stuff was OK, but I doubt he would have done it 5 years later...)

[Novecento]

It is also worth noting that some of the slapstick scenes (e.g. urinal / train, fairground etc) were filmed by Leone and were some of the best filmed parts... I just wish he hadn't gone down the comedic route at all.

[mike siegel]

The comedy approach (on Nobody's part) was right of course. (??).
But fast-motion in films rarely works. I mean most of the Trinity fun came
from just the opposite! The guy was sleepy and lazy and all... Quick on the draw
and fast with his fists... No need to slow down the camera.

[stanton]

Like!  

Well broadly.... I mean not all the Fonda stuff is that serious - it's not like the opening scene takes itself that seriously for example, 

I think it does. Similar to other scenes in which Leone western directing could be viewed as slight parodistic. At least the Fonda parts are in the same way serious as all the overdone scenes in the other Leone westerns, which back in the 60s were also often viewed as a grotesque parody on westerns.
The score of course is often turning known music motives upside down, as it is also a film about former Leone westerns.

[stanton]

The comedy approach (on Nobody's part) was right of course. (??).
But fast-motion in films rarely works. I mean most of the Trinity fun came
from just the opposite! The guy was sleepy and lazy and all... Quick on the draw
and fast with his fists... No need to slow down the camera.

It still works well in the Trinity films, and when I first watched MNIN as a child I wanted more from that, and was disappointed by all that other scenes, but know it kills the balnace between comedy and melancholy.

The urinal scene is btw absolute ok for me, a fine parody on western duels in the Leone style, not one of the scenes I would like to get rid of. And, yes, very well directed.

[mike siegel]

The pee scene is fine... I was just referring to the (three?) fast-motion bits (Drawing faster than his saddle could fall down / slapping in the bar & the soldiers chasing the train. All three could have been done with fast-motion. Fast motion is bad beyond the silent era, except for Jerry Lewis maybe. Btw, Peckinpah did it too... in THE LOSERS & CABLE HOGUE.